213 replies to this topic

[Apple Martini]

He's gotten away from the Boltons and he's Stannis' captive, and Stannis intends to execute him for murdering Bran and Rickon.

Why doesn't he just tell someone — Stannis, Asha, anyone — the truth? That he faked the Stark boys' deaths in order to get the castle to submit, and that they're actually still alive? Sure, they might not believe him, but he has no really good reason to keep up the farce, and he can't be in a more desperate situation than he is now. At least some of Stannis' northern allies also know that Bran at least is alive, but they're letting Stannis go on thinking they're dead (out of respect of Bran asking them not to tell, or for fear that Stannis might see them as rivals or both?) and seem willing to allow Theon's execution.

And yes you still argue that Theon deserves to die for murdering the miller's boys. But of the specific crime of killing Bran and Rickon, he's innocent. And unless he's just totally given up — very possible — I don't know why he's keeping up that story.

[CrypticWeirwood]

He’s still afraid to rat out Ramsey?

[Lyanna Stark]

Maybe Bran can intervene via Weirdwood communication to transmit the message that Theon didn't kill him and Rickon? It does seem like Bran has a certain ability to communicate now, and if they do end up bringing Theon to be executed in front of the old gods....

[Stargareyen]

He is broken. He could not announce in front of the northern lords that it was not Arya, Ramsay was marrying. Probably, all the flaying has messed up his mind.

[BoldAsYouPlease]

Apple Martini, on 18 April 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

Why doesn't he just tell someone — Stannis, Asha, anyone — the truth? That he faked the Stark boys' deaths in order to get the castle to submit, and that they're actually still alive? Sure, they might not believe him, but he has no really good reason to keep up the farce, and he can't be in a more desperate situation than he is now. At least some of Stannis' northern allies also know that Bran at least is alive, but they're letting Stannis go on thinking they're dead (out of respect of Bran asking them not to tell, or for fear that Stannis might see them as rivals or both?) and seem willing to allow Theon's execution.

And yes you still argue that Theon deserves to die for murdering the miller's boys. But of the specific crime of killing Bran and Rickon, he's innocent. And unless he's just totally given up — very possible — I don't know why he's keeping up that story.

Who would ever believe him? Certainly not Stannis or Mors Umber, who both view Theon with complete contempt as a turncloak. Theon has no proof whatsoever. Also, he is more than a little unhinged in his fear of Ramsay - if he goes into a frenzy of terror simply because Stannis calls Ramsay a bastard or "Snow", it must be inconceivable for Theon to actually reveal news so damaging to Ramsay.

Edited by BoldAsYouPlease, 20 April 2012 - 10:31 AM.

[irishtemper]

Apple Martini, on 18 April 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

He's gotten away from the Boltons and he's Stannis' captive, and Stannis intends to execute him for murdering Bran and Rickon.

Why doesn't he just tell someone — Stannis, Asha, anyone — the truth? That he faked the Stark boys' deaths in order to get the castle to submit, and that they're actually still alive? Sure, they might not believe him, but he has no really good reason to keep up the farce, and he can't be in a more desperate situation than he is now. At least some of Stannis' northern allies also know that Bran at least is alive, but they're letting Stannis go on thinking they're dead (out of respect of Bran asking them not to tell, or for fear that Stannis might see them as rivals or both?) and seem willing to allow Theon's execution.

And yes you still argue that Theon deserves to die for murdering the miller's boys. But of the specific crime of killing Bran and Rickon, he's innocent. And unless he's just totally given up — very possible — I don't know why he's keeping up that story.

The reason he doesn't just tell everyone is for the sake of Jeyne, I think he was planning on revealing the info on the Stark boys and (in his mind) hopefully cheered and made almost a hero.  However, when she whispered to him on their way to or from Mors Umber "you saved me." I think that is when he decides that he was doing this for her and he doesn't want to reveal that this girl doesn't matter anymore even if she was the real Arya Stark due the fact of her brothers being alive.  He is also slightly insane and is finally feeling slightly good about himself and is willing to die so that Jeyne can have a life that was beyond her reach before.

[Drunkenspeton]

If Davos and Manderly turn up with Rickon I think even Stannis will work it out.

I imagine it was Ramsay did the killing but even though it wasn't Bran and Rickon they still murdered 2 innocent children. Stannis gelds his own men for rape. He may not be willing to overlook the murder of two children whoever they were.

[Rockroi]

I think if there is a reason for Theon not to mention this it woul dbe the idea that the truth arrely has done Theon any good.  I think Theon believes he is as good as dead and the truth only gets him so far.  He would rather try to hang around long enough to possibly escape or something along those lines.

Remember- if Theon knows anything of Stannis its that he is just as committed to Justice in the name of High Lords or peasants.  The fact that Theon "only" murdered two Northern boys INSTEAD of Bran and Rickon does himn no good.  I think Theon SHOULD still do it for a practical reason- if the North is suddenly aware that Brand and Riockon could be alive then they are more likely to keep Theoin alive in an attempt to find them,

[JimZipCode]

Does it help Theon?  Bran & Rickoin are still alive -- instead I murdered two peasant boys, the bakers children.

[SynthFG]

Not to mention the Miller and his Wife,

Anyway probably for the same reason he killed them in the first place, it's better to be hated than thought a fool

Edited by SynthFG, 20 April 2012 - 04:11 PM.

[feardeathbywater]

Two miller's children.  Stannis is one of the few guys who cares more about principle, extreme or not, than rank (ex.: made an upjumped smuggler his Kings Hand for telling him the truth.  "Oh, some peasant's whelps is all" is not his line.  On the other hand, this is big, BIG news for Stannis and his allies.  Worth keeping Theon around for a little while, at least.

[Apple Martini]

Stargareyen, on 20 April 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

He is broken. He could not announce in front of the northern lords that it was not Arya, Ramsay was marrying. Probably, all the flaying has messed up his mind.

Not the same situation — he was actually in Ramsay's hands then and his life depended on keeping up the farce.

And I don't see how him saying that Bran and Rickon are still alive has to have anything to do with Jeyne Poole.

[Eggplant Wizard]

I would like Theon to really redeem himself. He is a very well written character and I hope he kills Ramsay and keeps Jeyne safe. She didn't deserve any of this.

[Mark Sawyer]

Eggplant Wizard, on 20 April 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

I would like Theon to really redeem himself. He is a very well written character and I hope he kills Ramsay and keeps Jeyne safe. She didn't deserve any of this.

Absolutely did not deserve any of this....as for Theon I can really care less what happens to his character...i do feel bad for all the horrors he has endured at the hands of Ramsay, however I hate Theon..HATE HIM SO MUCH..because of the millers kids!!! I know I know who cares..but for some reason i think that was a freaking dirtbag move on his part..i know he has tons of dirtbag moves on his record but or some reason the millers kids have always bothered me.. and for that i say F Theon...there is nothing he can do to redeem himself in my opinion

[Varys Targaryen]

He will be executed for betraying the King of the North.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Varys Targaryen, on 21 April 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

He will be executed for betraying the King of the North.

You mean sacrificed, not just executed. Theon’s kingsblood shall water the thirsty weirwood so that his death shall pay for Jon’s life. And thus will Theon be finally redeemed.

[AnotherHedgeKnight]

Varys Targaryen, on 21 April 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

He will be executed for betraying the King of the North.

Well Stannis thought there was no King in The North and Theon wasn't officialy Robbs bannerman so he technically never betrayed anyone. Now if Stannis wants to appease his northern lords then Theon is an obvious target

[The Third Reed]

Part of it is I imagine to protect Jeyne still. I also think that a part of him simply wants to suffer to some extent.

[Arkash]

Quote

And I don't see how him saying that Bran and Rickon are still alive has to have anything to do with Jeyne Poole.

Because in this case, Arya is no way the heir to Winterfell but Bran is... dont think Ramsay would like it...

[Zombie]

The only path of redemtpion I see possible for Theon is to take the black.  Convincing his captors of letting him do so seems difficult though.  However, it would give him an oppurtunity to at least in private tell Jon face to face that Bran and Rickon are still alive.

Another possibility I can sort of see is Jon refusing to let Theon take the black and calling for a block getting ready to execute him on the spot and then Theon blurts it out to save his own skin.