213 replies to this topic

[Mulled Wino]

Lady Wylla Manderly, on 25 October 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

I haven't read the whole thread (I mean the comments) so sorry if this has been addressed already.

I think by not telling that Jeyne is not really Arya, Theon keeps on damaging House Stark. I don't have it in my heart to blame Jeyne because she was an innocent when she went through Ramsay's abuse (Theon wasn't) but I still think she should tell the truth. That whole comment about "she'll be a little more than a whore" is exaggaration. While she may not exactly be very highborn and noble, House Poole still served the Stark's honourably, and I don't think Stannis would just see an abused girl as a whore and give her to his men or something!

So Theon took Winterfell behind Robb's back, killed two innocent children and their parents to cover up his own stupidity, unknowingly unleashed Ramsay the Supreme Psychopath of the North, cast the first stone of Robb's gruesome death ("The Stark cause was finished the moment you took Winterfell" - Roose), let his men rape and burn and he even raped Kyra himself... And NOW he is convincing everyone that some "steward's whelp" is Arya Stark, who may very well be pregnant with Ramsay's son who WOULD inherit Winterfell after him, if Theon has his way.

I'm sorry but what "redemption" are you people talking about? I don't think child murderers and rapists get redemption.

Let someone just sacrifice him and be done with it. (Preferably to R'hllor because it would hurt more, but I'll accept the Old Gods as well.)

Here here.  Throw a scumbag some sufferring fron his/her own pov and everyone loves you and wants you to be the new king (kingsmoot x2 lovers).

[aryagonnakill]

Mulled Wino, on 04 March 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

Is Tyrion irredeemable?

Very interesting question.  Tywin basically disinherited Tyrion but he was still his son( so far as we know I'm not trying to get into Tyrion is a Targ debates).  Too me the Tysha situation is worse since I happen to know Tywin deserved his death, but obviously murder is wrong I mean today we would say Tyrion is irredeemable.

[MindLikeWarp]

Theon is scum, but I feel like he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. Like Jaime with his vows. Which vow do you uphold? Who do you show allegiance? Your family or the Starks? Either way he would have been seen as a turncloak. I felt sorry for him, because of the way his father treated him. He turned his cloak on the Starks to appease his father, and also not to turn his cloak on his own family. I felt sorry for him, because of the position he was put in since he was a small boy.

[Mulled Wino]

aryagonnakill, on 04 March 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

Very interesting question.  Tywin basically disinherited Tyrion but he was still his son( so far as we know I'm not trying to get into Tyrion is a Targ debates).  Too me the Tysha situation is worse since I happen to know Tywin deserved his death, but obviously murder is wrong I mean today we would say Tyrion is irredeemable.

Today, sure, but I try not to look at characters in asoiaf in todays values for the most part (except i cant overlook crimes v children).  And murder doesnt seem as much a big deal as kinslaying obviously back then.  No one thinks twice about Shae's fate.

I also wanted to dind out if that poster takes Tyrion's kinslaying as seriously as he/she takes Stannis'.  Since it makes Stannis irredeemable.

I can never get over Tyrion raping Tyesha (not to mention all his other borderline rape incidents).  He never deserves her back for that or any female companionship in his life for that.  Tyrion blames everyone else for his problems.  This makes him irredeemable to me.  Plus killing his dad.

Stannis was under a direct threat from his brother.   One of them was going to die.  Tyrion's crime was very different.

[Ponys123]

Dunno, I kinda like Theon, for whatever reason. Perhaps because he always manages to fuck up when he's genuinely trying to do what's expected of him. I'd like to see him survive, in reversal of his usual luck.

[NorthRemembers]

Varys Targaryen, on 21 April 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

He will be executed for betraying the King of the North.

A title Stannis does not recognize.

[Pinkie Baelish]

Apple Martini, on 18 April 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

He's gotten away from the Boltons and he's Stannis' captive, and Stannis intends to execute him for murdering Bran and Rickon.

Why doesn't he just tell someone — Stannis, Asha, anyone — the truth? That he faked the Stark boys' deaths in order to get the castle to submit, and that they're actually still alive? Sure, they might not believe him, but he has no really good reason to keep up the farce, and he can't be in a more desperate situation than he is now. At least some of Stannis' northern allies also know that Bran at least is alive, but they're letting Stannis go on thinking they're dead (out of respect of Bran asking them not to tell, or for fear that Stannis might see them as rivals or both?) and seem willing to allow Theon's execution.

And yes you still argue that Theon deserves to die for murdering the miller's boys. But of the specific crime of killing Bran and Rickon, he's innocent. And unless he's just totally given up — very possible — I don't know why he's keeping up that story.

That's what's bugging me about his arc. He's about to be burnt alive for killing Bran and Rickon. WHY WON'T HE JUST ADMIT THAT HE DIDN'T DO IT? Maybe he wants to die? I don't know. But it's definitely something that annoys me.

And in the spoiler chapter, IIRC, he does tell Asha that it was the millers' boys.

[Kasporio]

Reading Reek pov gave me the creeps.
Ramsay is the most evil bastard ever.
And Theon death, besides being the end of his torments, is political. Everybody in the north despises him and wants him, even wildlings.
He had no proof to show he didn't killed rickon and bran, and Ramsay killed the ironborn who knew the truth.

He might deserved death for killing boys, but he didn't deserved to be tortured and mutilated for months by a psycho. he couldn't redeemed because he is utterly broken in mind and body. Well i hope he will see ramsay snow dead before his own execution. And he would be of no use to the night's watch because he's so crippled.

[aryagonnakill]

Pinkie Baelish, on 07 March 2013 - 01:58 AM, said:

That's what's bugging me about his arc. He's about to be burnt alive for killing Bran and Rickon. WHY WON'T HE JUST ADMIT THAT HE DIDN'T DO IT? Maybe he wants to die? I don't know. But it's definitely something that annoys me.

And in the spoiler chapter, IIRC, he does tell Asha that it was the millers' boys.

It's not from the sample chapter where he tells her everything, its either Asha's or Theon's last chapter in Dance.  That being said I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure he says he tells her everything.

Kasporio-the-cunt, on 07 March 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

Reading Reek pov gave me the creeps.
Ramsay is the most evil bastard ever.
And Theon death, besides being the end of his torments, is political. Everybody in the north despises him and wants him, even wildlings.
He had no proof to show he didn't killed rickon and bran, and Ramsay killed the ironborn who knew the truth.

He might deserved death for killing boys, but he didn't deserved to be tortured and mutilated for months by a psycho. he couldn't redeemed because he is utterly broken in mind and body. Well i hope he will see ramsay snow dead before his own execution. And he would be of no use to the night's watch because he's so crippled.

I agree, you kill two kids or order two kids to be killed and ya u deserve to be killed or sent to prison for the rest of your life, but torture is just fucked up, especially since Ramsay is probably the one who actually killed the kids himself.  The thing I wanted to comment about your post is that I believe Theon still has all of the required fingers to use a bow, that being said archers are suppose to be pretty strong.  I'd also like to say that I don't think he needs proof that the boys are alive, since some of Stannis' army knows that Bran is alive.  Remember the Liddle from the cave when Bran, Summer, Hodor, Meera, and Jojen were traveling north between Winterfell and the wall.

[lucien_crane]

Theon did say to Asha that he was no kinslayer, did he not? That time they first saw each other again, he was in a fit and he couldn't stop gushing out words? Or am I just mixing details up?

That said, might be he thinks he already said it and Asha just doesn't believe him.

Edit: found the passage. This was from the AWoW Theon sample.

Quote

Then the words came spilling out of Theon in a rush. He tried to tell her all of it, about Reek and the Dreadfort and Kyra and the keys, how Lord Ramsay never took anything but skin unless you begged for it. He told her how he'd saved the girl, leaping from the castle wall into the snow. "We flew. Let Abel make a song of that, we flew." Then he had to say who Abel was, and talk about the washerwomen who weren't truly washerwomen. By then Theon knew how strange and incoherent all this sounded, yet somehow the words would not stop. He was cold and sick and tired... and weak, so weak, so very weak.
She has to understand. She is my sister. He never wanted to do any harm to Bran or Rickon. Reek made him kill those boys, not him Reek but the other one. "I am no kinslayer," he insisted.

So he did say it, or thought he did. Asha just didn't believe or understand.

Edited by lucien_crane, 10 March 2013 - 08:12 AM.

[The Bastard of Walton]

Theon is haunted by this whole episode. Hes a ruined man & I think hes just happy to be away from Ramsey, he'd welcome death.
But he will redeem himself somehow before the end.

[thehightowers]

Apple Martini, on 18 April 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

He's gotten away from the Boltons and he's Stannis' captive, and Stannis intends to execute him for murdering Bran and Rickon.

Why doesn't he just tell someone — Stannis, Asha, anyone — the truth? That he faked the Stark boys' deaths in order to get the castle to submit, and that they're actually still alive? Sure, they might not believe him, but he has no really good reason to keep up the farce, and he can't be in a more desperate situation than he is now. At least some of Stannis' northern allies also know that Bran at least is alive, but they're letting Stannis go on thinking they're dead (out of respect of Bran asking them not to tell, or for fear that Stannis might see them as rivals or both?) and seem willing to allow Theon's execution.

And yes you still argue that Theon deserves to die for murdering the miller's boys. But of the specific crime of killing Bran and Rickon, he's innocent. And unless he's just totally given up — very possible — I don't know why he's keeping up that story.

I know, right! And if Theon tells the truth, maybe even Manderly can vouch for that seeing as he knows that Rickon Stark is still alive, although Manderly might vouch for Theon with much chagrin. Still, I think Theon has lost too much hope and will to live. He knows he did a lot of wrongdoings and he's eager to make up for it. After what he's been through, selfish is not what I would ever call Theon again. He'd probably be happy to die if he knows that somehow it absolves him and he has paid, in a way, the iron price.

[MtnLion]

I had a sudden vision of Stannis and Theon setting the scales.  Theon proves to be valuable to Stannis, so Stannis is in a generous mood (see Davos and his load of onions).

Stannis:  "Well, I can't just reward you, I must punish you as well.  The men are clamoring for your head, so drop your breeches . . . "
Theon:  "But, I don't have . . . "
Stannis:  "So be it, on yoru knees and put your neck on the stump."

[Stark@heart]

Theon is terrified of falling into Ramseys hands again and rightly so...  He even tells Stannis to kill him now before He comes..

When I read the Theon betraying Robb and taking Winterfell chapters I wanted him to suffer for his treasons and he has.  More so than I could have imagined but I did wish every bit of it on him at the time but now when I do a re-read, knowing what does happen to him, I can't help but feel a little sorry for him.

I hope to see all the responsible Lannisters, Boltons, Freys and Littlefinger / Varys also suffer in kind for their betrayals of House Stark!