213 replies to this topic

[Grumpy Midget]

I think at this point Theon is just wishing for a quick death and an end to his suffering.

Edited by Grumpy Midget, 26 April 2012 - 12:20 PM.

[Stargareyen]

Grumpy Midget, on 26 April 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

I think at this point Theon is just wishing for a quick death and an end to his suffering.

And since he is wishing that, he won't get any.

[Tharvot]

Something is going to happen at the Weirwood involving Bran and Stannis.  I do not think Theon's part in the tale is over just yet.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Tharvot, on 26 April 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

Something is going to happen at the Weirwood involving Bran and Stannis.  I do not think Theon's part in the tale is over just yet.

Well, if they’re in the godswood, then Bran himself could tell Stannis that Theon hasn’t killed him.  Might be a tough sell, though: would you believe a talking tree that it’s really a not-really-dead boy?

[Tharvot]

CrypticWeirwood, on 26 April 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

Well, if they’re in the godswood, then Bran himself could tell Stannis that Theon hasn’t killed him.  Might be a tough sell, though: would you believe a talking tree that it’s really a not-really-dead boy?

I suppose it would depend on what that talking tree said to me, haha.  All the hinting and foreshadowing about the weirwood isle during Theon's sneak preview chapter has to have some sort of importance.

[WolveseatDragons]

I think Theon actually wants to die.  It means an end to his suffering and that Ramsay can no longer harm him.  He can no longer be what he wanted to be and he is now just an object of pity, something beyond contempt as an Ironman.  The real problem with what he does or does not reveal is he is not mentally balanced anymore and reality and fantasy run together.  He could tell the whole tale or none of it.  He could try to tell it but come across as confusing blather that no one understands.  

I do agree he wants to save Jeyne simply because he knows what it is like to be Ramsay's toy.  I just don't know that he can put together enough rational thoughts to do so, he's just a mess.

Beyond all of that though GRRM doesn't seem to like to have simple explanations.  He likes to get things very close to being resolved and then do a 180 where you have no idea how things will be put together again.

[Faint]

Apple Martini, on 18 April 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

He's gotten away from the Boltons and he's Stannis' captive, and Stannis intends to execute him for murdering Bran and Rickon.

Why doesn't he just tell someone — Stannis, Asha, anyone — the truth?

I get the impression he told Asha everything:

Quote

"Did the Bastard do this to you?" she had asked.  

"Don't you call him that."  Then the words came spilling out of Theon in a rush.  He tried to tell her all of it, about Reek and the Dreadfort and Kyra and the keys, how Lord Ramsay never took anything but skin unless you begged for it.  He told her how he'd saved the girl, leaping from the castle wall into the snow.  "We flew.  Let Abel make a song of that, we flew."  Then he had to say who Abel was, and talk about the washerwomen who weren't truly washerwomen.  By then Theon knew how strange and incoherent all this sounded, yet somehow the words would not stop.  He was cold and sick and tired... and weak, so weak, so very weak.  

She has to understand.  She is my sister.  He never wanted to do any harm to Bran or Rickon.  Reek made him kill those boys, not him Reek but the other one.  "I am no kinslayer," he insisted.  He told her how he bedded down with Ramsay's bitches, warned her that Winterfell was full of ghosts.  "The swords were gone.  Four, I think, or five.  I don't recall.  The stone kings are angry."  He was shaking by then, trembling like an autumn leaf.  "The heart tree knew my name.  The old gods.  Theon, I heard them whisper.  There was no wind but the leaves were moving.  Theon, they said.  My name is Theon."  It was good to say the name.  The more he said it, the less like he was to forget.  "You have to know your name," he'd told his sister.  "You... you told me you were Esgred, but that was a lie.  Your name is Asha."

[princeofnothing]

When I read the sample chapter, I thought, "Finally! The truth will be told." I found it frustrating (but typically GRRM) that it didn't happen, but at the same time, I thought it understandable. Theon is one messed up individual; he practically wets himself at the mere mention of "Ramsay Snow."  The thing that really concerns me here, is that Wyman Manderly won't get the chance to tell the truth about Davos/Rickon before it's too late (ie, battle ensues).

Also, I agree that the frequent mention of the mighty Weirwood near Stannis' camp wasn't just for scenic reasons Bran strikes me as an extremely powerful warg/greenseer and I think he has a huge part left to play; possibly the most important of all.

[roboto44]

At the moment, it doesn't seem like he's capable of much sane conversation, judging by how, at times, he believes he's reek.

[Machinist]

he might as well tell them he can shit gold too while hes at it

[LadyJSnow]

It is no lie that Theon turned against the Starks. I think that perhaps Theon knows somewhere deep down that because he was capable of doing that, everyone believes he is also capable of killing Bran and Rickon. And if he's capable of that, then they'll definitely believe that he's capable of LYING about doing it. Theon has a lot to prove - which is why, in my opinion, that GRRM put Theon through everything that he did. Theon had to prove to us as readers that he repented and felt horrible for killing miller's boys and for turning against Robb and the Starks.

Theon's story is just getting good. It won't end yet. And as far as not selling out Jeyne... that I believe is just more brainwash from Ramsay. He hasn't quite worked 'Reek' out of his system yet. Perhaps with his sister next to him he will begin to let 'Reek' die more and 'Theon' live.

[alienarea]

CrypticWeirwood, on 26 April 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

Well, if they’re in the godswood, then Bran himself could tell Stannis that Theon hasn’t killed him.  Might be a tough sell, though: would you believe a talking tree that it’s really a not-really-dead boy?

Faint, on 27 April 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

I get the impression he told Asha everything:

LadyJSnow, on 30 April 2012 - 06:39 AM, said:

It is no lie that Theon turned against the Starks. I think that perhaps Theon knows somewhere deep down that because he was capable of doing that, everyone believes he is also capable of killing Bran and Rickon. And if he's capable of that, then they'll definitely believe that he's capable of LYING about doing it. Theon has a lot to prove - which is why, in my opinion, that GRRM put Theon through everything that he did. Theon had to prove to us as readers that he repented and felt horrible for killing miller's boys and for turning against Robb and the Starks.

Theon's story is just getting good. It won't end yet. And as far as not selling out Jeyne... that I believe is just more brainwash from Ramsay. He hasn't quite worked 'Reek' out of his system yet. Perhaps with his sister next to him he will begin to let 'Reek' die more and 'Theon' live.

If Stannis decides to execute Theon in the godswood, he might die himself. Stannis is quite involved in the killing of Renly, and Bran and Rickon are alive and not kin to Theon (at least not by blood). So to the old gods Stannis is the "bigger" kinslayer. And if Bloodraven watched Melisandre as she stared into the flames as she suspects, he is the one to play a trick here.

[Faint]

alienarea, on 30 April 2012 - 07:15 AM, said:

If Stannis decides to execute Theon in the godswood, he might die himself. Stannis is quite involved in the killing of Renly, and Bran and Rickon are alive and not kin to Theon (at least not by blood). So to the old gods Stannis is the "bigger" kinslayer. And if Bloodraven watched Melisandre as she stared into the flames as she suspects, he is the one to play a trick here.

I’m more inclined to think that Stannis is going to pull-off a successful variant of the Trojan Horse infiltration. His forces and Manderlay’s will slaughter the Freys, then Stannis and his men will put on Frey garb and return to Winterfell where they’ll claim that Stannis is dead and his men routed. They’ll even have Stannis’ sword as proof (hence the contents of the Ramsay letter).

[Bloodraven's Lost Eye]

When I was reading the last chapter I was thinking he was going to shout that the stark kids are still alive, right before they'd kill him.

[MtnLion]

I just can't resist:

Did you mean:

Something just hit me from Theon

I sincerely hope that it wasn't an unmentionable digit.  

[Blackfyre Bob]

CrypticWeirwood, on 21 April 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

You mean sacrificed, not just executed. Theon’s kingsblood shall water the thirsty weirwood so that his death shall pay for Jon’s life. And thus will Theon be finally redeemed.

wicked.  I know it won't be that described so plainly, but that's a super cool idea

[Ramsay Gimp]

Honestly, at this point I wouldn't reveal it either. I'd rather be remembered as an evil but daring conqueror than an incompetent liar.

Killing the Stark heirs is horrifying, but it's kind of epic. Killing two peasant boys to cover up your failure? Pathetic.

[Hamilton]

Its 80% wanting to die.  He knows he'll be executed for the Stark children.  He has been suffering and feels so guilty he might as well killed Bran and Rickon.

20% is to make Jeyne's claim as fake Arya stronger.


IMO

[Young Wolf's Vanguard]

I don't think Stannis would like to have boys still alive - those Northmen with him are with him for two reasons - saving Arya (as seen in and outside of Winterfell) and avenging Robb (which is one of Davos' main arguments on the Merman's Court) - they don't give two shits about R'hllor or Stannis' claims on the Iron Throne
now imagine what would happen if suddenly they have living, legitimate, male heir of their recently betrayed and murdered king - do you think they would prefer Baratheon over the next King in the North???

Edited by Young Wolf's Vanguard, 02 May 2012 - 12:58 PM.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

Stannis and Theon are both irredeemable characters in my mind. Stannis because of Melisandre and killing Renly.  Theon because of betraying Robb and what he did at Winterfell.

And what Ramsay did to him has broken him mentally and physically. I'd say he could be saved and make an epic hero comeback if he wasn't missing several toes and fingers. Not to mention its hinted at that he may have lost his manhood as well....

I think both will die.