68 replies to this topic

[rmanoj]

I really have a hard time understanding how Samwell Tarly turned out the way he did. Apparently Randyll wants to hammer his son into a great warrior using whatever harsh methods seem necessary, but he never bothers to supervise his diet? Sam's also somehow physically weak and a completely incompetent archer, which is hard to believe after all the training he was put through. Surely not everyone hired to train him could have been comically inept and lacking all understanding of how to get someone fit (and how was he allowed to become unfit in the first place? Did Randyll just leave him to his mother for the first few years, just assuming he'd get a prodigy?). "Nature" can only account for so much - something went spectacularly wrong with the "nurture" - maybe Sam was never going to be Barristan the Bold, but he should at least be vaguely fit and a semi-competent fighter. It seems pretty unrealistic for the son and heir of a lord in a medieval setting to end up like this (or for his father to wait until he has to resort to extreme and misguided methods).

[eyeheartsansa]

He should have lost some weight at the Wall.. are we sure he didn't?

[ghost the direwolf]

Sam was and is always sneaking in kitchen late at nigh even at the Wall. it is known!

[The Butler of Tarth]

His mother was always giving him candy when no one was looking.

[Jayce]

Do you forget, or perhaps not know, that excessive eating is not the only cause of obesity?
There are medical causes that are treatable (though even with most of the medical causes a good diet and exercise regime help).

As you point out the stuff Sam has been through he should not be like this, it is unrealistic, but perhaps he does one of the rarer medical problems that went undiagnosed throughout most of our history? Would that not go some way further to explaining your point.

[eyeheartsansa]

Samwell is basically Hurley from LOST.

[Crown]

I believe there is a mention of Sam's belt getting to big for him. I think in one of the Braavos chapters. So he definitely lost some weight.

[FuzzyJAM]

Jayce, on 19 April 2012 - 07:26 AM, said:

Do you forget, or perhaps not know, that excessive eating is not the only cause of obesity?
There are medical causes that are treatable (though even with most of the medical causes a good diet and exercise regime help).

As you point out the stuff Sam has been through he should not be like this, it is unrealistic, but perhaps he does one of the rarer medical problems that went undiagnosed throughout most of our history? Would that not go some way further to explaining your point.

Actually, it literally is.  You cannot be fat if you don't eat more energy than your body uses.  That's against the laws of physics.  Obviously some people have it far harder than others to keep at a healthy weight and some of that can be medical conditions, but there's no possibility that Sam's father couldn't make him lose weight.  


For the topic at large, I agree.  Doesn't strike me as reasonable that Sam would turn out as he did.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

It could be a medical problem Sam has. And I don't think there is much his father could have done, it's not as if Randyll Tarly could've hired Sam a nutritionist and a personal trainer.

[Greywolf2375]

It's not that hard to believe that he was incompetent at any of the martial skills - he doesn't have the coordination, hand-eye coordination or footwork.  Some people just naturally can't do some things - for Same, it's being (in a really broad sense) athletic.

[Lord Damian]

Sam was probably spoiled as a child by his mother who is seemingly very loving and not as stern a mother as some.

[RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon]

I thought Randyl Tarly let Sam grow without much input from himself thinking he'd become a "worthy" Tarly son by nature then at some point Tarly thought, shit, what has my son turned into and tried to beat him into a warrior. It did not work as Sam had grown up a bit soft and been spoilt a bit too much prob by his mother. Then Dickon was born, Randyl gave up on Sam, ignored him basically and focused all his attention on making Dickon the perfect heir which Sam never had. Sam was left to grow close to his mother and eat what he wanted till the day Randyl gave his litle talk and sent him to the wall.

[FuzzyJAM]

Greywolf2375, on 19 April 2012 - 07:38 AM, said:

It's not that hard to believe that he was incompetent at any of the martial skills - he doesn't have the coordination, hand-eye coordination or footwork.  Some people just naturally can't do some things - for Same, it's being (in a really broad sense) athletic.

Getting trained from birth should leave you at least somewhat fit if not talented.

[Ser Sweets]

rmanoj, on 19 April 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

Did Randyll just leave him to his mother for the first few years, just assuming he'd get a prodigy?).

I think this probably was the case, because you're right; nature is, at best, only half of a child's eventual outcome.

Randyll was likely off maintaining surrounding villages, aiding campaigns or overall being a domineering (and unlikeable) badass. Meanwhile, he expected his wife to 'do her thing' and raise him a son.

Who turned out to be Samwell.

After that, he probably was doing a lot of sneaking in and out of the kitchens and probably some comfort eating based on his father's unpleasantness.

[Hear Us Roar]

eyeheartsansa, on 19 April 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

He should have lost some weight at the Wall.. are we sure he didn't?

eyeheartsansa, on 19 April 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

He should have lost some weight at the Wall.. are we sure he didn't?

They eat pretty well at the wall and he is  not a ranger.

Edited by Hear Us Roar, 19 April 2012 - 07:56 AM.

[Ser Elfor the Landstander]

I love how we over-analyze things sometimes. Sam is fat because the story works better that way - that's the simplest explanation.

Which doesn't mean I don't value the discussion of Nature x Nurture. I just don't think using this example is adequate.

[RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon]

Ser Elfor the Landstander, on 19 April 2012 - 07:46 AM, said:

I love how we over-analyze things sometimes. Sam is fat because the story works better that way - that's the simplest explanation.

Or because he was ignored in favour of his younger brother so was left to get fat. Eating probably because his father was giving the attention he never got and being allowed to do so because in Randyl's eyes Dickon had replaced him. I believe Sam does mention this in the book, it's not in the TV show though if that's what your remembering.

[eyeheartsansa]

I'm sure GRRM has thought this through though.  He's stated that he identifies the most with Sam, and he's not the slimmest dude on the block.

[Warhammer]

Sam could be fat and still be a badass, I know a few "fat" powerlifters who could kick my ass (I'm 200lbs but lean). From a fighting perspective a bit of fat is a plus as it's not vascular.

Roman gladiators were not ripped, they were investments and a bit of fat made them less likely to bleed out from an otherwise superficial cut.

Genetics is genetics, I know so many ectos' who want a 315 bench and can't ever get it, and I know endos that want a six pack and have to struggle daily. Mesos well F' em they are freaks of nature, you can't really compete.

Sam's weight is due to lack of discipline, I for one don't blame his father (Westeros standards circa 300AL) Not everyone can be Ronnie Coleman but there is no excuse for Sam.

[eyeheartsansa]

Why should he need an excuse?  WHy does everyone have be a disciplined fighter?

It's not a sin to be fat.  He should have been sent to Oldtown to be a maester, but his father was too proud.