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How Jon Snow will regain his consciousness


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#1 houseHB

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:34 PM

This is my first post to this forum, I believe R+L = J and I believe the way Jon Snow will be brought back is through a Melisandre POV where they are having a funeral type thing for Jon and his body will be burned, but like with Dany he will be reborn through the ashes as Azor Ahai.

#2 moongoose

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:07 PM

I disagree... Right now I would bet that he does come back, but from the other side.
The Starks seem to have a connection to the Others (or so I'd like to believe). Why else would they burry their death with a sword to keep them from rising again? Jon has Stark blood in him and he will rise again as some sort of wight.

(If first thought that it would be similar to dany and that Jon could be AA reborn and so .. well.. reborn, that word says it all, but just today I found something while rereading ASOS and I changed my mind. He's going to come back as something similar to an Other or a wight)

#3 CrypticWeirwood

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:21 PM

They don’t need to burn him. They’ve already established that bodies don’t get reanimated as wights if they’re stored in the ice cells. Plus he’ll “keep” longer that way: cold preserves.

#4 Faint

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:25 PM

I'm really hoping he comes back much as Melisandre is now. No sleep, no food, bleeds black, red eyes, the whole deal.

#5 jon rr stark

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:41 PM

I disagree... Right now I would bet that he does come back, but from the other side.
The Starks seem to have a connection to the Others (or so I'd like to believe). Why else would they burry their death with a sword to keep them from rising again? Jon has Stark blood in him and he will rise again as some sort of wight.

(If first thought that it would be similar to dany and that Jon could be AA reborn and so .. well.. reborn, that word says it all, but just today I found something while rereading ASOS and I changed my mind. He's going to come back as something similar to an Other or a wight)

What did you find?

#6 moongoose

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 04:04 PM

In Jons last capter in ADWD it said: "In the cold night air the wound was smoking."
That might just be normal, because blood is hot and would sort of smoke when it's cold, but I always took it as a sign of fire of some sort. Maybe I expected him to be a bit like Dani or that he's AA.
When rereading ASOS I was a bit surprised to read the part where Sam slays an Other:

When he opened his eyes the Other's armor was running down its legs in rivulets and pale blue blood hissed and steamed around the black dragonglass dagger in its throat. It reached down with two bone-white hands to pull out the knife, but where it's fingers touched the obsidian they smoked.Sam rolled onto his side, eyes wide as the Other shrank and puddled, disolving away. in twenty heartbeats its flesh was gone, swirling away in a fine white mist. Beneath were bones like milkglas, pale and shiny, and they were melting too. Finally only the dragonglass dagger remained, wreathed in steam as if it were alive and sweating.


Smoke again. But this from an Other.
Maybe the smoking part of Jons wound means nothing and maybe it's a hint.
Hint for what I asked myself and well...
The Starks called themself the Kings of Winter and they burry their death with a sword so they won't rise again. Why is that so? Maybe the Starks have a bit of Other heritage(-magic) in their blood?
Dani is fire, so it would be strange for Jon to be fire as well (yeah yeah the dragon has three heads I know I know) ... Jon is the Ice part I believe.

#7 Menos Grande

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 04:29 PM

If Melisandre want, she will probably be able to resurrect him with the flames of Rhallor... that other Red Priest did it to that Knight (who after gave his flame of life to Lady Catelyn Stark). Melisandre seems to be the strongest of all the red priests and her powers are augmented by the Wall.

#8 Apple Martini

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 04:35 PM

I hope they don't try to burn him, although I guess it makes sense for them to.

I think that he'll warg into Ghost and stay there until Melisandre uses red god mojo to reanimate his body, before he wargs back into it. That way, his resurrection has elements of both "ice" (warging) and "fire" (red priestess magic).

#9 Black Crow

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 04:39 PM

In Jons last capter in ADWD it said: "In the cold night air the wound was smoking."
That might just be normal, because blood is hot and would sort of smoke when it's cold, but I always took it as a sign of fire of some sort. Maybe I expected him to be a bit like Dani or that he's AA.
When rereading ASOS I was a bit surprised to read the part where Sam slays an Other:



Smoke again. But this from an Other.
Maybe the smoking part of Jons wound means nothing and maybe it's a hint.
Hint for what I asked myself and well...
The Starks called themself the Kings of Winter and they burry their death with a sword so they won't rise again. Why is that so? Maybe the Starks have a bit of Other heritage(-magic) in their blood?
Dani is fire, so it would be strange for Jon to be fire as well (yeah yeah the dragon has three heads I know I know) ... Jon is the Ice part I believe.


Much discussed in times past with a certain concensus that "smoking" is simply a metaphor for hot blood condensing in cold air - just as your breath smokes when its frosty.

#10 Free Northman

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 04:43 PM

I will summarise a more detailed post I made on this topic before:

In Storm of Swords, at Crasters Keep we have a Sam point of view on the flight back from the Fist of the Firstmen.

There a brother of the Night's Watch named Bannon dies and is burned. The closing vow of the Night's Watch is recited there in full, I believe for our information, as it will later be the way in which Jon is released from his vows, although we don't know it yet at the time.

Anyway, in that chapter Mormon't Raven screams Snow!, and most significantly, when Sam watches the brother burn in the pyre, he curiously says that "For a moment, it appeared as if Bannon was sitting upright in the midst of the flames, and was trying to step out of the fire. Only for a moment, then he disappeared in the smoke."

The recital of the closing vow of the watch "Now my watch ends", the screaming of the word ''Snow'' by the raven, and the images of a body rising from the flames is huge foreshadowing in my view.

This is how Jon will return, now released from his vows. He will be reborn amidst smoke and salt.

And here's the clincher. The price that will be required to raise this secret Dragon, will be the sacrifice of King's Blood in front of a Heart Tree. I believe I know who the King is, and his identity links to the salt part of the prophecy. .

Thus his ressurection will be through the power of Fire and through the power of the Old Gods. Thus his will truly be the Song of Ice and Fire.

Edited by Free Northman, 19 April 2012 - 04:44 PM.


#11 Lan the Clever

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 04:59 PM

Yes, when you put it like that it's easy to realize what "king" you mean. It makes sense, we'll see if it happens that way.

#12 moongoose

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 05:08 PM

@Black Crow
I'm sorry, but I'm not that long on this forum so I don't know all the old discussions. I'm only making my up my own mind so far and well if I bring up old topics I'm sorry. STill.. commonly believed is still not like it's THE true. It's still a believe. Yours and mine.

I don't think that Jon liked the sacrificing part much. It would suck if he comes back only to do something so sickening as to sacrifice someone king or whatever. I'd really hate that. I hope it doesn't happen. Curse all the stupid people who cry for sacrifices. Mel and her bunch might be powerful, but that doesn't make them good or right. If Jon comes back to join their party...
well.. he'd better don't rise at all.
Stay dead... and play wolve. Why else would GRRM explain about the skinchanging in the opening if it isn't going to be relevant?
Jon could stay in ghost until his body turns wight for whatever reason there is (hopefully not Mel)

Edited by moongoose, 19 April 2012 - 05:11 PM.


#13 Free Northman

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 05:14 PM

I don't think that Jon liked the sacrificing part much. It would suck if he comes back only to do something so sickening as to sacrifice someone king or whatever. I'd really hate that. I hope it doesn't happen. Curse all the stupid people who cry for sacrifices. Mel and her bunch might be powerful, but that doesn't make them good or right. If Jon comes back to join their party...
well.. he'd better don't rise at all.
Stay dead... and play wolve. Why else would GRRM explain about the skinchanging in the opening if it isn't going to be relevant?
Jon could stay in ghost until his body turns wight for whatever reason there is (hopefully not Mel)


You misunderstand me. Jon isn't going to sacrifice anybody. He is going to be dead at the time, with his spirit warged into Ghost temporarily, to preserve his consciousness.

It will be Bran and Bloodraven who arrange for the sacrifice to take place. The sacrifice will probably not be enforced on the victim. My theory is that the victim is in such a fragile mental and physical state, that his final act of redemption will be to CHOOSE death in order to bring about something good.

This will happen simultaneously to Jon being burned, and will result in Jon's rebirth.

It ties into the Smeagol parrellel that was raised on another thread by someone else recently. Only the Smeagol of this story will make a CHOICE in the end to claim back his dignity and sacrifice himself in an act of final nobility, in front of a Heart Tree.

This will raise Jon and lead to the rebirth of Azor Ahai and the Prince Who Was Promised.

Edited by Free Northman, 19 April 2012 - 05:15 PM.


#14 moongoose

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 05:52 PM

Ah I see. Now I understand. Thanks for explaining!
The Smeagol paralell is interesting. It sounds like an interesting development.
I'm no big fan of the "redemption equals death" trope and such final acts of nobility, I prefer if someone tries to redempt with living a better life than he (or she) did before, but for some persons death would be a blessing I have to admit.

#15 Edwin Snow

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 06:10 PM

This Is my thought process that I posted in another thread. I am not claiming that I am 100% correct because it is indeed speculation, but I dont believe that it is to far fetched.

I have seen a lot of talk and speculation about the sons of Craster playing a significant role involving the creation or transformation of the White Walkers. I believe the same and after thinking on it I remembered that Gilly's son was left at the Wall while Dalla's son was taken away for its protection, but I think the significance of that happened also left possibly an even greater story line for Gilly's child.


What I mean about the possibility is that like a said earlier that everyone agrees about the WW's and their using the young sons of Craster because of some sort of bloodline or they obtain a secret that has not been revealed. The fact the Jon was killed at the end of A Dance with Dragons and the speculation that Jon will come back through some sort of magical process, but when he comes back hes more than likely going to have some new attributes because of that process.


I am starting to believe that Gilly's son will somehow be used in this process to bring Jon back, assuming it will be something similar to what the WW's use the baby's for. I think that the child swap was a way for Martin to drag our attention away from Gilly's son by using the significance of Dalla's child's "royal" bloodline for a sacrifice that Jon wasn't going to let happen, and playing up the insignificance of Gilly's son. Coming to that realization has made me come to the conclusion that he is indeed going to play an integral role in the process of Jon's resurrection and from what I have read in a previous thread involving the significance of Jon's location between the "smoke and salt" rooms inside the wall and that this assumed unique child is so close by.


Another aspect of this thought process is I have seen the discussion of the "sacrifice" made by Craster and whether if it is even a "true sacrifice." Craster from my pov seemed entirely selfish and insensitive to the fact he was giving his own sons away. If that is his nature then it really isn't a sacrifice because he isn't truly giving up anything. What I mean about that is the idea of Lent of the catholic faith, or fasting, when they sacrifice something that is apart of them for a period of time. If someone gives up drinking coffee and doesnt really drink coffee often enough to begin with then the idea of that its not a true sacrifice because it really didnt mean anything to you to begin with.


Gilly's sacrifice of leaving her new born son behind and take it upon herself to take care for someone else's child was an extremely unselfish act and a "true" sacrifice. From that I believe that because of the assumed significance of Craster's bloodline, Crasters death and the end of his bloodline, and a "true" sacrifice from Gilly in giving up her son means that he is even more important than what we were led to believe that he really isnt.


I dont think it is a coincidence that Jon was involved in sending the child away and now has died in close proximity to Gilly's son. I believe that the child will play a big role in Jon's resurrection or "re birthing" process and the possibility of him coming out stronger than the average WW with some of the reasons I have given.


Edited by Edwin Snow, 19 April 2012 - 06:14 PM.


#16 chris999

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 07:58 PM

I dont think that John is AA.

I think he is TPTWP. There is a difference.

TPTWP is the song of ice and fire, so I dont think fire alone can save him.


I am actually pretty confused about Jon. Either Mel will revive him (lame...) or he will just plain die.

I dont think that he can survive those wounds... not when the dunk and egg tales say that a single thrust to the belly will kill a man.

#17 chris999

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 09:14 PM

He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him

This greendream from Bran suggests that Jon Snow dies.

#18 Ser Wun Wun

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 09:17 PM

In Storm of Swords, at Crasters Keep we have a Sam point of view on the flight back from the Fist of the Firstmen.

There a brother of the Night's Watch named Bannon dies and is burned. The closing vow of the Night's Watch is recited there in full, I believe for our information, as it will later be the way in which Jon is released from his vows, although we don't know it yet at the time.

Anyway, in that chapter Mormon't Raven screams Snow!, and most significantly, when Sam watches the brother burn in the pyre, he curiously says that "For a moment, it appeared as if Bannon was sitting upright in the midst of the flames, and was trying to step out of the fire. Only for a moment, then he disappeared in the smoke."

The recital of the closing vow of the watch "Now my watch ends", the screaming of the word ''Snow'' by the raven, and the images of a body rising from the flames is huge foreshadowing in my view.

This is how Jon will return, now released from his vows. He will be reborn amidst smoke and salt.

And here's the clincher. The price that will be required to raise this secret Dragon, will be the sacrifice of King's Blood in front of a Heart Tree. I believe I know who the King is, and his identity links to the salt part of the prophecy. .

Thus his ressurection will be through the power of Fire and through the power of the Old Gods. Thus his will truly be the Song of Ice and Fire.


I've been sticking to the Jon warg's into Ghost, Mel kills Ghost like Mirri killed Drogo's horse (Ghost is the nissa nissa of the prophecy) and then Jon is revived theory for months now, but I've got to say I think I like your theory better. I'm re-reading ACOK now, but when I get to ASOS I will definitely be on the lookout for the Sam chapter, I never took much note of that scene before.

I love your idea of the "sacrifice" before the heart tree too, it would be a great end for that character. It never really crossed my mind that he was king's blood, but I suppose he is when you really think about it. And not just because of recent events, his house actually goes back a long way, to true kings. I think anyway, I'm a little fuzzy on the history.

#19 Dragonstar

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:23 PM

I give a lot of credit to another poster here who brought up the fact that an unusual amount of emphasis had been given to the food storage cells under the wall - one where meat was smoked and another where it was salted. I'm fairly certain that through a Melisandre POV we will see his body transported to a cold storage cell under the wall next to the smoke and salt rooms. I think in this interim period where Jon's body is dead, his spirit lives in Ghost. This could be why Melisandre saw Jon's image alternate between his own face and that of a wolf - in the flames. I'm unsure of how he will be brought back to life - potentially some intervention on Melisandre's part - but I'm pretty sure that when he is, he will fulfill the Azor Ahai prophecy - Smoke, Salt, Stars bleeding etc.

I can't see Jon just being dead - there is no completion or arc to his story if he dies that way. He has accomplished nothing at the wall, and realized nothing of his own origins (R+L = J - which I believe, or Ned + whomever).

#20 Drunkenspeton

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 01:59 AM

If jon wargs into ghost for any extended period I'll be pissed. Thats an overused plot device and blatant rip off of farseer.

Just let mel resurrect him. Call it miraculous healing ala Thoros.