63 replies to this topic

[Kings In The North]

I don't see any reason why he would actually die. I mean, if the 4th stab that he didn't feel was through the heart then maybe, but with the wound she received he could be days, and days in dying. Remember how long it took fro Robert to die after the boar ripped open his stomach. I think Melisandre will heal his wounds before he has a chance to die- so there will be no bringing him back from the dead. The Red Priests have amazing healing powers, and I don't see why they wouldn't be put into use in this situation.

[bemused]

Unless we're talking about simply cauterizing a wound , I'm pretty leery of the Red Priest's healing powers. What's consumed in the process ?

[Silver Spearwife]

DoctorSwerve, on 02 May 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

Now since it has been noted that some iron swords are missing from Winterfell's crypts, I think that we can expect to see some long-lost Starks rise from the dead as wights once the Others reach Winterfell.  Eerie.

When I read that, I assumed it was Theon noticing the swords that Bran & Co. stole.

One of the things that struck me as odd about Dance was Melisandre. With the exception of I think just Brienne and Cersei in Feast, the new narrators from the last two books are all basically minor narrators (can't recall any others). But Melisandre got her name titling her chapter. This identifies her as a main narrator (probably). Why? What purpose could that possibly serve? We need eyes on the Wall, but we already have that through Jo--oh, whoops, now you've gone and killed him.

He might not be dead permanently, though. We lost Catelyn as a narrator once she returned to life. Martin likes planting ideas like that and drawing unrelated parallels later on. Undead will fill the role just as well. Besides, the reveal of his parents wouldn't be as good if Jon were dead-dead. It wouldn't hold the same weight.

I'd rather he just not be dead in the first place, but then, maybe Martin would do it in such a way that it's better this way.

[Black Crow]

bemused, on 02 May 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

Unless we're talking about simply cauterizing a wound , I'm pretty leery of the Red Priest's healing powers. What's consumed in the process ?

Indeed, as Maester Aemon observed cold preserves but fire consumes; Kentucky Fried Jon a la Victarion isn't a beguiling prospect.

[alienarea]

Crackpot of the day: We have Dany's dream where she is is fighting Others at the Trident and her dragons are melting them. If Jon is dead and warged into Ghost, and the wall comes down as we assume it does in TWoW, maybe Jon's body gets wightified and he becomes a 'normal' man again after being melted at the Trident?

[dreamcatcher]

Silver Spearwife, on 02 May 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

He might not be dead permanently, though. We lost Catelyn as a narrator once she returned to life. Martin likes planting ideas like that and drawing unrelated parallels later on.

I'm sure Jon will be back as a POV at some point. Catelyn's POV was a good riddance, but Jon is basically someone who had loads and loads of chapters, the readers are too invested in him, just like in Tyrion, Dany, Arya, and Bran. It doesn't take much skill to discern who are the actual protagonists in the series.

[a bastard named snow]

It sounds simple but for me Jon will regain his consciousness by waking up. Apart from the nick to the neck bleeding, there's no other mention of blood....there's no mention even of a blade "He found the dagger's hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking". After blood being mentioned in the original cut then why not after being stabbed in the gut? So how about rather than being dead, the knife which nicked his neck was posioned, stopped him drawing longclaw or feeling the fourth dagger, and the other blades where Mel's illusions to free Jon from the nights watch oath in the eyes of his brothers?

[CrypticWeirwood]

All I know is that Jon is looking more and more like Han Solo on ice. I bet we’ll even learn he shot first.

[Valkyrja]

Sort of fitting.....maybe he'll be frozen in carbonite....

.....and then saved by Val (princess Leia).

Edited by Valkyrja, 14 May 2012 - 06:32 AM.

[blackbrother]

Someone feel free to correct me if I am mistaken, but I have noticed something about Martin's writing style especially when it pertains to main character deaths.

No main character 'dies' in their own chapters.

I have noticed this in a few instances, mainly with Tyrion and Danni. Tyrion has at least 2 chapters where he 'fades to black' but is back in a following chapter (once in GoT, once in ADwD, and maybe even once in ACoK). Danni goes into the fire with Drogo, but survives.

Someone might point out that Catelyn 'dies' in her own chapter, but it is also shown that she is still 'alive' at the end of ASoS.

Brienne also has a near miss with death in her own chapter. I don't remember if Theon 'dies' in his own chapter, but this also proves to be false. Even the Onion Knight is reported 'dead' but isn't.

Unless a main character is observed dying by another main character in that character's chapter, no main character have died and stayed truly dead. Ned dies in an Arya chapter, not in a Eddard chapter.

I am a believer in L+R=J, and also that Jon might be TPTWP. I don't believe he will die or need to be resurrected. I do believe he will be healed by Melissandre, but at what price.

[Black Crow]

Its well known that unless a character is observed to be unquestionably dead by a third party, preferrably with head removed from shoulders, said character should not be regarded as dead.

[Ragnorak]

In Welsh mythology there is a story of Bran the Blessed (Blessed Raven) which is supposed to be part of the basis for the evolution of the King Arthur story. There are similar elements in that story but it is not really a parallel. Bran has a half brother and a sister who is married and being mistreated. He tries to save her. His half brother burns their sister's son alive and eventually throws himself alive into a cauldron that raises the dead in order to destroy it. Clearly part of the inspiration GRRM had came from this story but the differences are significant enough to make predictions based on it difficult. You can probably find support for just about every theory here. For me it raised more questions than answers but it was still interesting to compare them.

[YoungGriff the Conqueror]

Just watching the show again and I notice that Bran 'comes back from the dead' after the death of Lady. Could Jon similarly come back from the dead by the death of another of the direwolves? Or is it simply a coincidence that Bran awakens at  around the same time?

[Tyrion_is_Omar]

houseHB, on 19 April 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

This is my first post to this forum, I believe R+L = J and I believe the way Jon Snow will be brought back is through a Melisandre POV where they are having a funeral type thing for Jon and his body will be burned, but like with Dany he will be reborn through the ashes as Azor Ahai.

Im probably wrong but I agree. I believe that he will rise after someone says now his watch is over.
One of the reasons why I believe this is because I think that,  if r+l=j i true,  Danny will need more proof that Howland Reed´s testimony to believe that Jon is Rhaegar's son and if she finds out that jon resurrected from his own funeral's pyre, she would be more willing to believe that Jon is his nephew.

Edited by Tyrion_is_Omar, 10 October 2012 - 12:11 AM.

[bent branch]

Here is an idea that I had. While Jon's body is lying comatose (not dead), Jon is warged into Ghost north of the Wall. Ghost/Jon sees Summer. Summer sees Ghost and makes motions like he wants Ghost to follow. Ghost follows Summer deep into the cave. When they reach a certain spot Summer stops and looks in a certain direction. Ghost looks in the same direction. Then he sees Bran sitting on a weirwood chair with tree roots growing through him. Jon is confused and grief stricken by what he sees. Then Bran opens his eyes and speaks to Jon. Bran tells Jon something of great importance (not about his parents) and Jon shocked snaps back into his own body.

[Black Crow]

Tyrion_is_Omar, on 10 October 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

Im probably wrong but I agree. I believe that he will rise after someone says now his watch is over.
One of the reasons why I believe this is because I think that,  if r+l=j i true,  Danny will need more proof that Howland Reed´s testimony to believe that Jon is Rhaegar's son and if she finds out that jon resurrected from his own funeral's pyre, she would be more willing to believe that Jon is his nephew.

That's assuming that R is important. Everrything we're learning about Jon and the north suggests its more important that L is his mother and that the R connection is just a maguffin.

[Tyrion_is_Omar]

Black Crow, on 10 October 2012 - 06:38 AM, said:

That's assuming that R is important. Everrything we're learning about Jon and the north suggests its more important that L is his mother and that the R connection is just a maguffin.

I think that Rhaegar will be important in order to recruit Danny's dragons.

Edited by Tyrion_is_Omar, 10 October 2012 - 10:14 AM.

[Black Crow]

Not if Jon needs to slay them to save Westeros from the Red lot

[The Tall Talker]

Maybe Jon's fated to follow the foot-steps of the 3 eyed crow....

[Head of The Ned]

If they put his body in an ice cell he could warg into Ghost.... maybe Summer/Bran contacts him that would be cool. I think the NW falls apart and we go North for a while...I think Melisandre could give him the kiss like Thoros did Dondarrion, Jon has already been kissed by fire in a way... he banged Ygritte and the book always talked about her being kissed by fire and it was a sign of luck to the Free Folk

Edited by Franklyn Snow, 11 October 2012 - 12:52 AM.