122 replies to this topic

[AngrySoviet]

Cersei is funny.  My favorite bit involving her is actually a quote from Littlefinger, when he says something like "the fool thinks she is a player but she's actually a pawn."  It's cute to watch her try and be a genius manipulative person, and knowing that she is screwing herself over and over and over again.


Also, I will never understand how some people can like her.  Maybe sympathize with her, her punishment is quite cruel (Although she had it coming) and she does truly love her children.  But not like her.  I haven't seen too many Ramsay or Gregor sympathizers around.

[The Last Direwolf]

Picking a needless fight with the Tyrells was her most stupid moment. By conspiring against Margaery and treating the others with such disdain she was weakening the very foundation of Tommen's throne - without the Tyrells he could not hold it, and with the Greyjoys, Starks, Baratheons, Targaryens, Martells, Arryns and Tullys attacking sometime in the next book or two, that crown on his golden head is already looking a little precarious.

[SeanF]

AngrySoviet, on 20 April 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

Cersei is funny.  My favorite bit involving her is actually a quote from Littlefinger, when he says something like "the fool thinks she is a player but she's actually a pawn."  It's cute to watch her try and be a genius manipulative person, and knowing that she is screwing herself over and over and over again.


Also, I will never understand how some people can like her.  Maybe sympathize with her, her punishment is quite cruel (Although she had it coming) and she does truly love her children.  But not like her.  I haven't seen too many Ramsay or Gregor sympathizers around.

I'm sure there are people on this forum who admire Ser Gregor, and Ramsay.

She isn't in their league of dreadfulness, though.

[eyeheartsansa]

Quote

Also, I will never understand how some people can like her. Maybe sympathize with her, her punishment is quite cruel (Although she had it coming) and she does truly love her children. But not like her. I haven't seen too many Ramsay or Gregor sympathizers around.

'liking' and 'disliking' someone in fiction is complicated, and a loaded question.  That's probably why people get bent out of shape sometimes, and why this forum is like crackrock.  Consider what goes into how you feel about a fictional character:

Do you like/relate/sympathize with them as a person?
Do you like/agree with how they treat other characters in the story you like or dislike?
As a well rendered character?
Does his/her characteration tell you something about the authors worldview/prejudices and do you like that?
Their role/placement in the story?
Would you want to hang out with them?
Would you trust them?  To do what?

Edited by eyeheartsansa, 20 April 2012 - 10:06 AM.

[BabyMeraxes]

I fucking LOVE reading about Cersei, but how do you even sympathize with her? She fucking waltzes into that Sept, dripping with salt with her chin raised high to the sky. She's literally ruined by her petty need to throw some shade at the Little Queen. Hilarious.

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

I like all the self delusion. The whole " I am even better than Tywin, oh what a mastermind I am for that deal with High Septon." I like How confident she is with her plans to destroy Margaerry but she is the one who ends up trapped. That plan of course would have backfired even if it went as she wanted and Margaery was the only one arrested (and also there was enough evidence to execute her) as the Tyrells would be in KL with their army.

She kind of reminds me of Victarion, some of their chapters are funny in some ways due to the delusional nature of Cersei/Victarion.

Edited by Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren, 20 April 2012 - 10:11 AM.

[eyeheartsansa]

Quote

She's literally ruined by her petty need to throw some shade at the Little Queen.

It seems petty to us, but not to her.

The opening sentence of her first POV chapter explains everything:

"She saw herself on the Iron Throne."

As despicable as she is, it's a terrible feeling to watch someone else steal your thunder.

[SeanF]

One can certainly like a literary villain, such as Harry Flashman.  I like Tyrion, who if not exactly a villain, is certainly dark grey.  Cersei isn't anything like as interesting or amusing as Tyrion, and I don't like her, but nor do I detest her.

[AngrySoviet]

eyeheartsansa, on 20 April 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

'liking' and 'disliking' someone in fiction is complicated, and a loaded question.  That's probably why people get bent out of shape sometimes, and why this forum is like crackrock.  Consider what goes into how you feel about a fictional character:

Do you like/relate/sympathize with them as a person?
Do you like/agree with how they treat other characters in the story you like or dislike?
As a well rendered character?
Does his/her characteration tell you something about the authors worldview/prejudices and do you like that?
Their role/placement in the story?
Would you want to hang out with them?
Would you trust them?  To do what?

That's a very good point.  I'm going to try and answer that, because it seems interesting, even though I don't think you posted that so people will answer

-I sypmathize with her, to a certain point.  She was unfairly treated in life, the Mad King did not let her marry Aerys, and the fact that she is a woman does not let her attain that much political power.  However, she is also shown as a vicious, evil person who has no problem murdering babies, and there is no excuse for that.
- I hate that she treats Tyrion like crap for no good reason, and how she treats Jaime because he did not participate in her schemes.
- She is a well rendered character, and shows you what paranoia and power can do to a person.
- I think GRRM wants to show you that power for the sake of power is definitely not a good thing.
-Her placement in the story is good, both as what causes Eddard's downfall and her role as a paranoid crazy person that has a large hand in the downfall of House Lanniser.
-HELL NO
-HELL NO

[AngrySoviet]

Also, she should not try to avoid prophecy, i.e. the whole "I must defame Margaery because she is the younger Queen that will depose me, etc. etc."  If there's anything I learned from Greek mythology, and this book, is that you can't circumnavigate prophecies.  Especially when they are made by creepy old women.

[Ser_Patreck]

I love how she went and pinched Tyrion 'till he cried after hearing about Baelor and his Maiden's Vault.

I mean, of course Tyrion should be punished for the crimes of a completely unrelated man dead some hundred years before. He was a dwarf. And ugly.

Oh, and the deal with the High Septon was just so sweet. Lord Tywin would be proud? I bet he would.

[BabyMeraxes]

eyeheartsansa, on 20 April 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

It seems petty to us, but not to her.

The opening sentence of her first POV chapter explains everything:

"She saw herself on the Iron Throne."

As despicable as she is, it's a terrible feeling to watch someone else steal your thunder.

Yeah, but nothing involving Cersei will ever be petty to Cersei because to Cersei, Cersei is the end all be all. Even all her postering about sacraficing for kids rings a little tired. If you were to look up all the times Cersei's POVs mention her kids, and then look at all the times she mentions Margy or herself, you'd see how much of her thought is wasted on her childrens. Again, I fucking love this bitch, but I won't be shedding any tears for her.

[Buckwheat]

I liked the scene with her and Tyrion when she started crying about being afraid in ACOK - it was a strangely touching moment, for once she showed some vulnerability, and to Tyrion of all people. Tyrion was even sorry about poisoning her.

Also "I love you, I love you, I love you". As weird and uneven her relationship with Jaime was, these words were true.

Dracarya, on 20 April 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

This will not end well

That is what I said yesterday in the Mr&Mrs Baratheon thread, and it did not happen. Funny things on this forum last two days.

[Hear Us Roar]

I like Cersei. When reading her chapters i agreed with much of her decisions to a degree. Like dealing with the tyrell's weasling their way in to more and more power.  I liked her parts where we see Margerey manipulating Tommen away from her influence which was real and not a paranoid delusion. All eyes are on her so it is harder because she is limited. Varys and littlefinger are not in the limelight so they can focus on their schemes and perfect them. Heck Varys is in the damn walls half the time eavesdropping.

[eyeheartsansa]

BabyMeraxes, on 20 April 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

Yeah, but nothing involving Cersei will ever be petty to Cersei because to Cersei, Cersei is the end all be all. Even all her postering about sacraficing for kids rings a little tired. If you were to look up all the times Cersei's POVs mention her kids, and then look at all the times she mentions Margy or herself, you'd see how much of her thought is wasted on her childrens. Again, I fucking love this bitch, but I won't be shedding any tears for her.

yeah, I've never bought that she loves her children so much.  I guess she loves them inasmuch as they are hers and jaimes, but they only ever seem like pawns for her to rule through.  She's pretty mean to Tommen - because he is easier to control than Joff was.

[Prince of Dragonstone]

I love reading Cersei POVs because I always know that I will be thoroughly entertained. I've never ever skimmed through any of her chapters. I loathe her and think she takes the cake as the most foolish character in the series, but damned if it's not fun watched her turn gold into shit every single damn time. Its like watching a trainwreck....I can't look away.  I think one of the main "lessons" of her character is that it is easy to gain power but very difficult to keep it. She is a total "love to hate" character.

[Ser_Patreck]

eyeheartsansa, on 20 April 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

yeah, I've never bought that she loves her children so much.  I guess she loves them inasmuch as they are hers and jaimes, but they only ever seem like pawns for her to rule through.  She's pretty mean to Tommen - because he is easier to control than Joff was.

That one would think better of Joffrey then of Tommen show us how utterly deranged that one is.

Death to the Lioness, I call.

[Buckwheat]

eyeheartsansa, on 20 April 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

yeah, I've never bought that she loves her children so much.  I guess she loves them inasmuch as they are hers and jaimes, but they only ever seem like pawns for her to rule through.  She's pretty mean to Tommen - because he is easier to control than Joff was.

I always thought she liked Joffrey much better than the other two - at least Tommen, because we do not see any scenes between her and Myrcella. I am not sure she wiewed them as her pawns, I believe she was really scared of what Lady and Nymeria could do to Joffrey in AGOT (she freaked out because of it). We know she loves her family.

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

SeanF, on 20 April 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

She isn't in their league of dreadfulness, though.

I disagree.  Sending an innocent woman to Qyburn simply because she was tired of her crying? Dreadful.  Just because she doesn't kill with her own hand doesn't make her any less dreadful.

[Prince of Dragonstone]

I don't know that she truly loved them. She certainly spoiled Joffrey but that in and of itself is very bad parenting. She should have instilled a sense of honor, duty and kindness in the future king, not tell him that whatever he wants, he gets simply because he's born to the purple. This later came to bite her in the ass (as much of what Cersei's actions do) when Joffrey sidestepped her and decided to have Ned's head as a nice wall decoration. Even Cersei knew how stupid of a move that was.

But then again, if she was a good mother, wife and Queen we wouldn't have much of a story, now would we? So I hope Cersei keeps being the lovable douchbag we all know and hate!