91 replies to this topic

[King Tyrion VII]

The real Aegon is alive as well. Crackpot? Probably. The idea just popped into my head so I'll offer my only evidence.

1. I believe the part about the black dragon  sign washing up on shore rusted red means Young Griff is fake. Black dragon is Blackfyre, red is Targaryen plus it washed up on shore, meaning it was in the water. If Young Griff is a Blackfyre pretender he is red pretending to be black. Plus the first time we seen him he on a boat in the water. I believe these two chapters would have been next to eachother if the books didn't get split. Which would make it even more obvious.

2. My only evidence for the real Aegon still being alive is that the baby wasn't recognizable after getting its head smashed in.

What are your thoughts? Crackpot? Possible? Is there any evidence from the books to support this?

I personally would love it if this was true and the real Aegon faces off against YG with his own army

[James Arryn]

I haven't completely given up on my completely unsupportable Edric Dayne connection.

[King Tyrion VII]

James Arryn, on 23 April 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

I haven't completely given up on my completely unsupportable Edric Dayne connection.

I'm interested. Let's hear it

[James Arryn]

Er...that was pretty much it.



Edit: not poking fun.

My hypothesis boils down to his appearance, character, the significance of his being wet-nursed by Wyla/"related" to Rhaegar's best friend, and...well...that's pretty much it.

Edited by James Arryn, 23 April 2012 - 10:44 PM.

[Jem]

Despite wholeheartedly believing that Aegon is a Blackfyre, I do believe that a baby-swap would have been possible and that Baby Aegon could have been rescued.

I like the idea that Baby Aegon was saved, but he died shortly afterwards and the current Aegon was a last minute replacement to hide the fact that the real Aegon had died.

[James Arryn]

Totally serious but will seem like I am mocking conspiracy theory question:

Do we KNOW Viserys and Dany are the same 2 people who escaped from Dragonstone?

I mean, were they always in evidence? Could either one of them have been switched at some point for someone with similar features? It seems to me their childhoods were pretty chaotic...have they always been in the public eye, while trying to hide from assassins?

In which case, could either of them explain the Quiet Isle prophecy?

[Dr. Pepper]

James Arryn, on 23 April 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

Totally serious but will seem like I am mocking conspiracy theory question:

Do we KNOW Viserys and Dany are the same 2 people who escaped from Dragonstone?

I mean, were they always in evidence? Could either one of them have been switched at some point for someone with similar features? It seems to me their childhoods were pretty chaotic...have they always been in the public eye, while trying to hide from assassins?

In which case, could either of them explain the Quiet Isle prophecy?

I think it would have been nearly impossible to have switched them after Darry took them to Braavos.  Viserys was old too old to have been able to make a reliable switch.  Dany was a baby when they fled but I can't imagine who they'd be able to switch her with.  They were then in Braavos until Dany was old enough to make a switch really possible.  They were pretty well known by the elite of the Free Cities since they spent there time going from home to home.  I think they are the real deal.

I also don't think they were actually being chased by assassins.  Viserys just didn't have the skills to consistently deflect assassination attempts and their hosts probably thought of them similar to what Robert thought of Jalabhar Xho...just an amusing oddity to have around.  I think the hired knives chasing them was just something Viserys made himself and Dany believe to explain why they had to keep moving.  It was probably humiliating to his psyche that no one was willing to help them or keep them fed and clothed for long periods of times. If Robert didn't have them killed when they were living in one place for all those years in Braavos, I think that means he wasn't actually trying so long as they never had any type of military support.

I think Aegon explains the Quiet Isle theory.  I also continue to wish that and Edric Dayne connection could fit in somewhere.

[thetitansbastard]

What is the Quiet Isle prophesy?

[James Arryn]

Dr. Pepper, on 23 April 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

I think it would have been nearly impossible to have switched them after Darry took them to Braavos.  Viserys was old too old to have been able to make a reliable switch.  Dany was a baby when they fled but I can't imagine who they'd be able to switch her with.  They were then in Braavos until Dany was old enough to make a switch really possible.  They were pretty well known by the elite of the Free Cities since they spent there time going from home to home.  I think they are the real deal.

I also don't think they were actually being chased by assassins.  Viserys just didn't have the skills to consistently deflect assassination attempts and their hosts probably thought of them similar to what Robert thought of Jalabhar Xho...just an amusing oddity to have around.  I think the hired knives chasing them was just something Viserys made himself and Dany believe to explain why they had to keep moving.  It was probably humiliating to his psyche that no one was willing to help them or keep them fed and clothed for long periods of times. If Robert didn't have them killed when they were living in one place for all those years in Braavos, I think that means he wasn't actually trying so long as they never had any type of military support.

I think Aegon explains the Quiet Isle theory.  I also continue to wish that and Edric Dayne connection could fit in somewhere.

Cool, thanks.

I thought it unlikely that either of them could be, but GRRM has slipped through narrower cracks before. I mean, Aegon himself allows for a window of hours, and I'd have thought Dany or Vis could have had that, but you're probably right.

And yeah, I totally want Edric to be significant.

George, if you are reading this, take note. The last time Dr. Pepper and I agreed about something was no WMDs in Iraq.

titan, Apple's way better at this than I am, but if I've got it right the sign from, I think the Inn of the Kneeling Man, but anyways, some Inn which had been a black dragon washed ashore on the QI, so rusted that it was now red.

So not so much a direct prophecy as seen to be extremely symbolic.

Edited by James Arryn, 23 April 2012 - 10:43 PM.

[Artos Stark]

i like the young griff Blackfyre theory.  That one is kind of cool to me.  I'd like to see these two sections of the Targ family rejoining.  Dameon Blackfyre was the offspring of two Targs, lets not forget that.  He was a Targ to the bone.

[James Arryn]

I should also say that I don't even think that Aegon being a Blackfyre would have to mean what many think it would mean to Dany.

Sure, it's representative of an old antagonism, but I think to Dany that might seem like a family squabble compared with recent events which frame her loyalties. So she might even feel kinship with Aegon if he is a Blackfyre.

I'm not sure he is, but I also just want something to happen, and if nothing else, he's that.

[Sevumar]

James Arryn, on 23 April 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

I should also say that I don't even think that Aegon being a Blackfyre would have to mean what many think it would mean to Dany.

Sure, it's representative of an old antagonism, but I think to Dany that might seem like a family squabble compared with recent events which frame her loyalties. So she might even feel kinship with Aegon if he is a Blackfyre.

What are Blackfyres but an off-brand of Targaryens, after all? It's entirely possible that we're far enough removed from the Blackfyre rebellions that Dany might not carry the same animosity that someone like Bloodraven would. She may even be thrilled to find another living, if distant, relative.

Judging by her overreaction to other deceptions, I don't think it's going to go over well if she manages to find out that he's a pretender claiming to be her nephew. He'd be trying to take a throne she's already decided is hers.

[James Arryn]

Sevumar, on 23 April 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

What are Blackfyres but an off-brand of Targaryens, after all? It's entirely possible that we're far enough removed from the Blackfyre rebellions that Dany might not carry the same animosity that someone like Bloodraven would. She may even be thrilled to find another living, if distant, relative.

Yeah, exactly.

Quote

Judging by her overreaction to other deceptions, I don't think it's going to go over well if she manages to find out that he's a pretender claiming to be her nephew. He'd be trying to take a throne she's already decided is hers.

Yeah, that's also true. Although I think she's shown enough wisdom to distinguish between complicit deception and not. I also don't think she;d necessarily feel the deception was aimed at her, especially if she hears of Plan A, and how/why it was thwarted.

Also, and this is where I am different from most people, I don't get the sense that Dany lusts after the Iron Throne as an exclusive right, for its own sake. I think a lot of the reasons she 'wants' it are those she would willingly share with a 'worthy' relative, and by worthy I basically mean dragon-friendly.

[Gurkhal]

I don't think Aegon is a Blackfyre for the sole reason that I don't get why Connington would ever agree to help a pretender to the throne when the plan with Viserys and Daenerys was still in the work.

[Jem]

Gurkhal, on 24 April 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

I don't think Aegon is a Blackfyre for the sole reason that I don't get why Connington would ever agree to help a pretender to the throne when the plan with Viserys and Daenerys was still in the work.

As has been said many, many times before it is likely that Connington doesn't know.

[Gurkhal]

Well I would assume that Connington knew Rhaegar's children and that he probably would've been able to tell the difference. I don't remember for how long Connington has been together with Aegon but I would assume its since early years. I'm not buying that he wouldn't have suspected anything.

[James Arryn]

Gurkhal, on 24 April 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

Well I would assume that Connington knew Rhaegar's children and that he probably would've been able to tell the difference. I don't remember for how long Connington has been together with Aegon but I would assume its since early years. I'm not buying that he wouldn't have suspected anything.

Mmmmm?

I want to believe Aegon's real too, but this is kinda weak.

Why would he be able to tell the difference? Couple weeks ago my mom showed me a pic of myself as a kid I'd never seen before; I barely recognized me.

And I'm stunning.

(The last bit is no less true for its complete lack of relevance.)

[Jem]

Gurkhal, on 24 April 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

Well I would assume that Connington knew Rhaegar's children and that he probably would've been able to tell the difference. I don't remember for how long Connington has been together with Aegon but I would assume its since early years. I'm not buying that he wouldn't have suspected anything.

He didn't meet up with Aegon until the boy was about 5 years old. Even if Jon had seen Aegon as a baby, he would have changed a lot since then.

Plus Jon has a strong emotional need for this boy to be Aegon. He loved Rhaegar and feels shame and guilt about letting him down. Aegon is Jon's ticket to redemption. He needs this so badly that his emotions are overriding his sense.

[Gurkhal]

James Arryn, on 24 April 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

Mmmmm?

I want to believe Aegon's real too, but this is kinda weak.

Why would he be able to tell the difference? Couple weeks ago my mom showed me a pic of myself as a kid I'd never seen before; I barely recognized me.

And I'm stunning.

(The last bit is no less true for its complete lack of relevance.)

Well I don't remember when its said that Jon took over fostering of Aegon but assume it was more or less right away, and I think that he says that he never trusted Varys so he might have been suspecious. If Jon took over the fostering years or just several months later then I'll agree that its a redundant argument.

[James Arryn]

Gurkhal, on 24 April 2012 - 12:32 AM, said:

Well I don't remember when its said that Jon took over fostering of Aegon but assume it was more or less right away, and I think that he says that he never trusted Varys so he might have been suspecious. If Jon took over the fostering years or just several months later then I'll agree that its a redundant argument.

You didn't comment on the important part of my post.