246 replies to this topic

[bloocanary]

boojam, on 25 April 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

That exactly right. But in the light of what we find out about the Faceless Men later, it makes not a lick of sense.
I think George got to riffing and never noticed.

But the Faceless Men worship the Many-Faced God under which all the gods of death are one. R'hllor, as the only god of the Red Priests' religion, is therefore god of both life and death, and death by fire would be considered his domain. I imagine that had Arya saved them from a flood, Jaqen would be taking lives to repay the Drowned God instead.

ETA: My mistake, the Red Priests' god of death is The Great Other, not R'hllor. However, as the Great Other is the god of ice and R'hllor's the god of fire, I'd assume that's why Jaqen considers him the "collector" of lives taken by flame.

Edited by bloocanary, 25 April 2012 - 09:13 PM.

[iheartseverus]

bloocanary, on 25 April 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

But the Faceless Men worship the Many-Faced God under which all the gods of death are one. In the House of Black and White, there are statues of all the gods that rule over death, including the Stranger of the Seven Westerosi gods. R'hllor, as the only god of the Red Priests' religion, is therefore god of both life and death, and death by fire would be considered his domain to a Faceless Man. I imagine that had Arya saved them from a flood, Jaqen would be taking lives to repay the Drowned God instead.

Good point.  Good point!

[bloocanary]

I just rewatched the preview (I was too !!!! over Mr. Faceless Sexyface to notice much when it originally aired) and WOW, it really is off-puttting to hear Jaqen use first person pronouns. I'm assuming that his manner of speaking didn't translate well to real life and might've made things hard for the audience to follow. I hope at the very least he uses it here and there, because one of the things that really stood out for me when he changed faces was that his manner of speech changed as well.

And the hair looks awesome. Yay!

[boojam]

bloocanary, on 25 April 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

But the Faceless Men worship the Many-Faced God under which all the gods of death are one. R'hllor, as the only god of the Red Priests' religion, is therefore god of both life and death, and death by fire would be considered his domain. I imagine that had Arya saved them from a flood, Jaqen would be taking lives to repay the Drowned God instead.

ETA: My mistake, the Red Priests' god of death is The Great Other, not R'hllor. However, as the Great Other is the god of ice and R'hllor's the god of fire, I'd assume that's why Jaqen considers him the "collector" of lives taken by flame.

I never got the impression that the FM every singled out one god out of the Many Faced God, or at least George never made it clear.
At least as we find out during Arya's stay with them in Braavos.

[Été]

Seems a bit early for weasel soup. I reckon Jaqen will make his offer in this episode, but the actual murders will come later, after she's had a few scenes with Tywin. The FM deaths will get plenty of screentime to set things up for Arya's adventures in Essos.

iheartseverus, on 25 April 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

I saw an interview with someone involved in 'Blackwater' (duh, can't remember who it was...) who said they filmed from 5pm one evening until something like 6am the next morning, so Blackwater is going to be all night-time stuff.  I'm predicting lotsa fireworks, explosions, but all in the dark.  Lotsa screaming, people being thrown overboard, but overall confusion as to specific details.  Alas, personally, I tend to lose interest in those kinds of things.  I mean, you can leave the room, go get a glass of lemonade, look out the window and see what the weather's doing, all the while listening to the screaming and shouts going on in Blackwater, because even sitting right in front of it, you can't see what's actually going on.  Not being a downer here, but just hearing that the whole thing was a night shoot... well, been there, done that.  Hope it turns out better than I fear.

Everyone pictures it differently but I'm pretty sure it's written as a night battle in the books? It's certainly dark enough that Stannis' captains miss the boom chain. The battle itself is illuminated by red flames and green wildfire in my mind's eye; it's part of what makes it so dramatic (but yes, chaotic). To judge from the previews, it'll only be following Tyrion and a bit of the Hound into combat. And possibly Davos. Unbelievably excited.

[Lady Olenna]

iheartseverus, on 25 April 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

I saw an interview with someone involved in 'Blackwater' (duh, can't remember who it was...) who said they filmed from 5pm one evening until something like 6am the next morning, so Blackwater is going to be all night-time stuff.  I'm predicting lotsa fireworks, explosions, but all in the dark.  Lotsa screaming, people being thrown overboard, but overall confusion as to specific details.  Alas, personally, I tend to lose interest in those kinds of things.  I mean, you can leave the room, go get a glass of lemonade, look out the window and see what the weather's doing, all the while listening to the screaming and shouts going on in Blackwater, because even sitting right in front of it, you can't see what's actually going on.  Not being a downer here, but just hearing that the whole thing was a night shoot... well, been there, done that.  Hope it turns out better than I fear.

I literally adjusted all the brightness/color options on my tv because so many of the great scenes are so dark I can't see anything. I originally watched last weeks episode in the bedroom and had no idea Greywind made an appearance until I watched on the large screen. I really hope Blackwater isn't the same way.

[A Time for Wolves]

You know what I'm really dreading in this episode? The scene where Rodrik Cassel tells Bran that Torrhen's Square is under attack. It's just too horrible. The Starks were doomed the moment Ned rode south, but to actually see that doom come to Winterfell will be almost too painful to watch. It feels like lead in my stomach.

This is probably the last Peaceful Winterfell episode we're going to see until the very end of the series.

[Samalander]

Lord Ashford, on 25 April 2012 - 08:52 AM, said:

Perhaps the first two she will ask to be murdered will be the Tickler and Polliver?

Jamie Lannister, on 25 April 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

Boss. Pyat Pree looks great.

But they made him one of the Thirteen?

Got Mance in Your Pants?, on 25 April 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

To be fair.. Dany doesnt do much till storm of swords so im not fussed with having her out of episodes.

I wonder which visions they will keep from the House of Undying?

Lady Olenna, on 25 April 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

I have a feeling we will see the interactions between Robb and Jeyne.

No Jeyne for us   Just spunky healer girl...

P.S
From next episode preview...Davos is to blame for loss on Blackwater (No Mel=loss to fire)? Really?

[TheEvilKing]

Anyone else concerned this ep might be trying to pack too much in? We know it includes the stories at King's Landing, Renly's camp, Qarth, Harrenhal, Winterfell, the Stoney Shore and beyond the Wall. The only story thread (probably but not confirmed) missing is Robb.

This episode is going to be very fast paced, zipping around everywhere, and I think it may suffer for it. The better episodes this season have been the ones that allow more time for slower storytelling.

[boojam]

CrypticWeirwood, on 25 April 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

It quite possibly did. Remember they spent an entire month shooting that single episode.

Curious that they have such a long denouement in Episode Ten’s “Valar Morghulis”.

Last year a ton of architectural CGI was done for Winterfell , KL, the Wall some for the Eyrie and The Twins (actually for as little time as The Twins was on screen it looked better than the Eyrie).
There was some CG 'multiplier' stuff for the  Dothraki Khal and the Lannister camp.
Now they have had to create Pyke, Dragonstone and Qarth. We have only really seen mostly interiors at Pyke and Dragonstone, no street scenes in either of those places. Dubrovnik looks as if it needs little CGI amplification , tho some must be there.
Harrenhal has so far looked good, but entrance and front courtyard of the place looks a little more cramped than in my minds eye.
(By the by , and it seems right, all the plebeians sure don't know about the dragons of old, only the high born seem to have the knowledge, Arya knowing about the fate of Harrenhal.)
So I don't know what fraction of each episode's budget goes to CGI, but we will be half way through this season next week and we have only seen Drogon , very briefly, once.
Beginning to wonder if we will every see all three together for some while, maybe episode 5.

By the by we are now past the first 5 episodes (we have seen some future episode clips) but finally some new stuff is starting to appear.

[Arkash]

Quote

I saw an interview with someone involved in 'Blackwater' (duh, can't remember who it was...) who said they filmed from 5pm one evening until something like 6am the next morning, so Blackwater is going to be all night-time stuff. I'm predicting lotsa fireworks, explosions, but all in the dark. Lotsa screaming, people being thrown overboard, but overall confusion as to specific details. Alas, personally, I tend to lose interest in those kinds of things. I mean, you can leave the room, go get a glass of lemonade, look out the window and see what the weather's doing, all the while listening to the screaming and shouts going on in Blackwater, because even sitting right in front of it, you can't see what's actually going on. Not being a downer here, but just hearing that the whole thing was a night shoot... well, been there, done that. Hope it turns out better than I fear.

I agree, I must be one of the really few who dont feel excited by episode 9... I get tired of too long battles and action in movies / TV shows... so, I'm gonna watch it, it's essential to the plot, but it's a necessary pain in the ass for me...

Edit: Oh, missed you were talking for the night aspect of it...

No, for me, it's long battles in general... I consider them so boring, except when really really well done (Kingdom of Heaven, Black Hawk Down... and Ridley Scott in general)... so, hope I wont be bored...

As for this episode, we are sure to have the storyarcs of: Catelyn, Davos, Bran, Arya, Daenerys, Jon... and strongly possible: Theon.

But my guess, and it's a wild guess, is that we wont have any King's Landing this episode: so, no Tyrion, no Sansa... but I may be damn wrong.

Edited by Arkash, 26 April 2012 - 05:39 AM.

[boojam]

TheEvilKing, on 26 April 2012 - 04:47 AM, said:

Anyone else concerned this ep might be trying to pack too much in? We know it includes the stories at King's Landing, Renly's camp, Qarth, Harrenhal, Winterfell, the Stoney Shore and beyond the Wall. The only story thread (probably but not confirmed) missing is Robb.

This episode is going to be very fast paced, zipping around everywhere, and I think it may suffer for it. The better episodes this season have been the ones that allow more time for slower storytelling.

So far , roughly speaking , they have covered the first 30 chapters of CoK in 4 episodes, have 40 more chapters to go, depending on what they may have borrowed from SoS. They have almost 7 chapters to cover in the next 6 episodes.
Problem is some of those are long chapters , but a lot can be condensed. In the book it seemed Arya spends the rest of her time at Harrenhal and escapes her last pov chapter, I think that is going to shortened.
Jon's story seems to go on forever in CoK and spills over into SoS , I really don't know how they are going to handle that.
Except for some initial excitement Bran's story almost comes to a stop, but Bran and Theon's story are interlaced, so I don't know how they are going to handle that.
If episode 9 is almost all Blackwater, then there are really only four episodes left to just get in CoK stuff.
If they do it Dany's House of the Undying sequence should  , we shall see, eat up a large part of one episode, I hope they don't chop that one down too much. Lord they have to introduce Arstan and Belwas.
Hope they don't carry on the Barristan Selmy ruse as long as George did, I guess Ian McElhinney is still under contract?

Edited by boojam, 26 April 2012 - 05:47 AM.

[Bronn = Legend]

Putting wildfire aside for the moment, I'm a bit concerned that Tyrion hasnt placed an order for his chain with the KL smithies yet.

At this rate Davos will be up the Blackwater and relaxing on the Sept of Baelors steps before its even out of the forge.

Edited by Bronn = Legend, 26 April 2012 - 06:45 AM.

[Myrddin]

Morrigan, on 25 April 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

I love when people bitch about lines that are actually straight from the book...

I agree.

On a different note, is anyone else pissed that they keep changing Hodor's dialog? I almost threw my slice of honeydew melon at the TV when they changed Hodor's wit AGAIN. It's written so perfectly in the novel. So clear. So elegant. So un-needing editing or revision by hack television writers.

Sigh.

[WinterWarrior]

I am re-reading COK along with watching season 2 and at this point Sansa's note regarding escape and her meeting in the Godswood to plan her escape with Dontos should be coming up soon. Or maybe they will just have that next year and not drag it out so long. That would make sense. I think that is dragged out too long in CoK and into SoS. It could happen much faster in the series and still make sense. So maybe that will be part of season three. But since they have already introduced Dontos this season they may need to keep that story line warm and we will see it this season. Time will tell.

Edited by WinterWarrior, 26 April 2012 - 07:48 AM.

[Harle The Handsome]

Aegnor, on 25 April 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

On a different topic, I was wondering, prior to Sunday's episode, why Tyrion would be delivering his 'I will make you pay for this...your joy will turn to ashes' line that we've seen in S2 trailers, since the whole Alayaya plotline went away. I speculated that Cercei would find out about Shae and do something to her (beat her or kill her). I'm not so certain anymore. What if he wasn't talking to Cercei? What if he was talking to Joffrey, and is in reaction to the events of this past episode (with the prostitutes). It would totally fit, and would fulfill all requirements that the scene fulfilled in the book (mainly giving Tyrion a motive for the PW).

There is one problem I see with it though. Threatening the King is something completely different than threatening Cercei. I think threatening the King in such a manner would be problematic for his position. I'm not sure that it wouldn't be considered treason.

In the S2 trailer that I'm referring to, they flashed from Tyrion giving that line, to Cercei smiling smugly. That seems to indicate that the line was delivered to Cercei, but that isn't necessarily true. We should see if I am right, about the direction they are going to take, in this upcoming episode, as Tyrion will almost assuredly find out about Joffrey's handiwork in this episode.

It seems like the writers want to condense the Alayaya arc into the consequences of the two prostitutes scene.  I really dislike this idea, because the show seems to want to strip everything Cersi does in the book and give it to Joffrey.  I wonder if they are going to move Tommen out of KL now? The scene between Cersi & Tyrion had an important threat where Tyrion promised to reciprocate anything done to Alayaya with Tommen, including beatings and rapes.  It showed Tyrion could be just as ruthless in the game of thrones as Cersi and preyed upon her love  for her children.  I thought this scene was why she felt she needed to have Tyrion killed during the battle of Blackwater.

[tearloch]

Onion Smuggler, on 25 April 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

Torrhen's Square is under attack! Surely at some point they are going to introduce wildfire and explain what it is and the significance of it? Another "The Iron throne is mine" speech from Dany to be expected. Would Tywin really not know who Arya is, I mean, obviously he's probably not seen her before, can he not tell she's more highborn than the other's she was with? He noticed straight away that she was a girl, I just wonder if he would have an inkling of who she was? Or does he still think Cersei has her at K?

That is exactly what I was thinking.  Does he know that Cersei doesn't have Arya?  That could be the only explanation.  Tywin instantly recognized her as a girl.  If Tywin is a sharp as he think, then we will quickly recognize her as highborne (remember Roose's monologue with Theon about the pronunciation of "My Lord"?  So Tywin finds a highborne girl hiding out, heading north, at the same time a highborne northern girl is missing?  The only explanation is that Tywin doesn't know that she is missing.  Daddy is gonna be pissed when he finds out!

[tearloch]

DebMc, on 25 April 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

After being somewhat disappointed in Eps 1-3, I was finally pleased by this episode (exceptions - Arya being "outed" as a girl so quickly and the introduction of the girl who will cost Robb his kingdom in a way so dramatically different from the book - but these were small annoyances).

We never had a POV from Robb.  How do we know its so dramatically different?  When Robb was off warring in the Lannister lands, we didn't know anything of what was going on, only reports of his conquests.  I think the storyline that HBO introduced is brilliant.  It helps to show why Robb fell for her in the first place, instead of just some lustfull evening while she is nursing him back to health.

[tearloch]

bloocanary, on 25 April 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

But the Faceless Men worship the Many-Faced God under which all the gods of death are one. R'hllor, as the only god of the Red Priests' religion, is therefore god of both life and death, and death by fire would be considered his domain. I imagine that had Arya saved them from a flood, Jaqen would be taking lives to repay the Drowned God instead.

ETA: My mistake, the Red Priests' god of death is The Great Other, not R'hllor. However, as the Great Other is the god of ice and R'hllor's the god of fire, I'd assume that's why Jaqen considers him the "collector" of lives taken by flame.

Followers of the R'hllor burn their victims.  Perhaps its that life from death thing.  For R'hllor to give life, he needs death via sacrifices.  Didn't Melisandre say as much at one point?  Its a balance kind of thing.  I think the discussion of the FM being versed in all religions is spot on.  Remember their temple?

[TheEvilKing]

Arkash, on 26 April 2012 - 05:31 AM, said:

As for this episode, we are sure to have the storyarcs of: Catelyn, Davos, Bran, Arya, Daenerys, Jon... and strongly possible: Theon.

But my guess, and it's a wild guess, is that we wont have any King's Landing this episode: so, no Tyrion, no Sansa... but I may be damn wrong.

Theon and Tyrion are definitely in it. Not sure about Sansa but given the volume of other characters in this episode I'd say no.