107 replies to this topic

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

There's no downside to attacking the North.  That's why Balon did it.  Its a viable strategy. Minimax, minimize maximum loss. He's still trying to win. But after his last attempt he's wants minimize the cost of failure.

Its not stupid, its excellent strategy.  Balon's goal is to conqueror the North.  Knowing the aforementioned limitations of the Iron Born, there lack of skill in mounted warfare and siege craft. Knowing that there is a decent chance that they won't win no matter who they attack.  And still wanting the seize the opportunity of a divided realm.  Balon attacks the side with the least ability to strike back at him. The goal is not to carry loot back to islands.  But the worst case scenario against the North is that you get in your ships with all of their shit and go back home.  The Worst case against Tywin Lannister is he stays on the Throne gains access to a fleet and come to Pyke to shove his boot up your ass.  Why would Balon except Robb's offer as presented? There's no way Balon should respect Theon's battle prowess or expect that Robb would be able to best Tywin Lannister. Sending Theon to treat with Balon is evidence of poor judgement on Robb's part.  The thing everyone seems to be forgetting here is that when Balon dies the Captains and Kings all leave with the better part of their force to go to the Kings Moot.  And even then Roose is only able to win North using Theon to trick the unsupported and unreinforced remnants of the army to surrender.  Based on the plan Balon lays out.  He's planning to add forces over time not subtract them.  Asha, Theon and Victarion are only the first wave.

The real failing is Robbs. Had he sent a better envoy . (He may not have had one) and a more carefully worded treatise, he could have won Balon's support and smashed the Lannisters for once and for all. I think he Robb had a Davos type person in his employ he could convinced Balon to take Lannisport.  Maybe even the Great Jon. Theon was certainly a poor choice.

“When I require your counsel I shall ask for it,” his father said. “We have had a bird from Old Wyk. Dagmer is bringing the Drumms and Stonehouses. If the god grants us good winds, we will sail when they arrive... or you will. I mean for you to strike the first blow, Theon. You shall take eight longships north-”

“Eight?” His face reddened. “What can I hope to accomplish with only eight longships?”

“You are to harry the Stony Shore, raiding the fishing villages and sinking any ships you chance to meet. It may be that you will draw some of the northern lords out from behind their stone walls. Aeron will accompany you, and Dagmer Cleftjaw.”

“May the Drowned God bless our swords,” the priest said.

Theon felt as if he’d been slapped. He was being sent to do reaver’s work, burning fishermen out of their hovels and raping their ugly daughters, and yet it seemed Lord Balon did not trust him sufficiently to do even that much. Bad enough to have to suffer the Damphair’s scowls and chidings. With Dagmer Cleftjaw along as well, his command would be purely nominal.

“Asha my daughter,” Lord Balon went on, and Theon turned to see that his sister had slipped in silently, “you shall take thirty longships of picked men round Sea Dragon Point. Land upon the tidal flats north of Deepwood Motte. March quickly, and the castle may fall before they even know you are upon them.”

Asha smiled like a cat in cream. “I’ve always wanted a castle,” she said sweetly.

“Then take one.”

Theon had to bite his tongue. Deepwood Motte was the stronghold of the Glovers. With both Robett and Galbart warring in the south, it would be lightly held, and once the castle fell the ironmen would have a secure base in the heart of the north. I should be the one sent to take Deepwood. He knew Deepwood Motte, he had visited the Glovers several times with Eddard Stark.

“Victarion,” Lord Balon said to his brother, “the main thrust shall fall to you. When my sons have struck their blows, Winterfell must respond. You should meet small opposition as you sail up Saltspear and the Fever River. At the headwaters, you will be less than twenty miles from Moat Cailin. The Neck is the key to the kingdom. Already we command the western seas. Once we hold Moat Cailin, the pup will not be able to win back to the north... and if he is fool enough to try, his enemies will seal the south end of the causeway behind him, and Robb the boy will find himself caught like a rat in a bottle.”

Theon could keep silent no longer. “A bold plan, Father, but the lords in their castles-”

Lord Balon rode over him. “The lords are gone south with the pup. Those who remained behind are the cravens, old men, and green boys. They will yield or fall, one by one. Winterfell may defy us for a year, but what of it? The rest shall be ours, forest and field and hall, and we shall make the folk our thralls and salt wives.”

[SeanF]

In reply to the O/P, it wasn't terribly bright.

The Ironborn had no chance of gaining control of the North,  And by crowning himself King, Balon would likely have alienated the Lannisters, as well as the Starks, had he lived.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

David Selig, on 25 April 2012 - 04:56 PM, said:

They are Iron Born, the word strategy is not in their vocabulary. Except for Asha, I guess she was switched at birth or something...

  What is wrong with you people? Clearly both Balon and Euron have a sharper grasp of strategy than Robb the Boy or Edmure Tully.  


There are two Kingdoms with absolutely no power at sea.  Those are the North and Dorne.  The Dornish coast has virtually not safe anchorage, is closer to the Step Stones and the Arbor, which are potential sources of relief by sell sails or the Redwyne fleet. On top of that the Dornish armies are in the Boneway and Prince's Pass and can readily reinforce other areas of Dorne.

The North by contrast has the vast majority of its strength, below the Neck.  The North can be, and is, cutoff from reinforcement.  Were Robb to have won back North and expelled the Iron Born he had no means by which to retaliate against the Iron Islands. He has no ships.  Were Robb build ships he would have no one to sail them.  Were Robb to conscript sailors his fleet would be no match for the Iron Born at sea.


Therefore, whether or not Balon can hold the North is irrelevant.  Its possible he could by elevating some Northmen in exchange for their help.  Certainly Black Harren was able to rule over the Riverlands. Should Robb win his war, Balon will not be the only breakaway kingdom for the Iron Throne to fret over.   And Robb won't be able to attack Balon  himself. Should Robb lose and should the Lannisters ultimately squelch all rebellion and unite the south then Balon could simply bend the knee as lords, Lychester, Vance, Goodbrook, Smallford, Piper, Mallister, Bracken, Rygers and Paege do after the Red Wedding.  Unlike the Riverlords, Balon will not have taken up arms against the House Lannister.  The price of re-admittance to the king's peace should be small enough.  And at any rate Balon should be able to pay it out of what he'd have stolen from the Northern lords.  


Or he could try to make a go of it as an independent kingdom combining his seafaring with the North's population and natural resources. Were Theon merely to have taken Bran and Rickon hostage, holding them on Pyke and were the Red Wedding still to occur( with Roose motivated by Robb's apparent weakness in letting Winterfell be sacked) then I could envision the North and the Iron Born allying against the Iron Throne.  Without Robb's Tully encumbrances it could work. The three sisters would make a good Narrow Sea base of operations for the Iron Born as well and they could aide Wyman Manderly's ship works and train sailors.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

SeanF, on 26 April 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

In reply to the O/P, it wasn't terribly bright. The Ironborn had no chance of gaining control of the North, And by crowning himself King, Balon would likely have alienated the Lannisters, as well as the Starks, had he lived.

yeah there's no basis for that statement.  that they have no chance of controlling the North.  And even if the don't have a chance its still smart.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Ice Turtle, on 26 April 2012 - 05:46 AM, said:

Lol it seems that Stannis won Tywin the war.

Oh yeah. Stannis definitely won Tywin the war.  He switched the Tyrells from being opposed to king Joffrey to supporting him.  Even if Tywin has gone West to confront Robb. The Tyrells still would have stopped Stannis from taking King's landing.  At which point Robb would have been just as fucked.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Fire Eater, on 25 April 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

But there's a huge difference between the North and the Riverlands. The riverlands are a smaller area full of rivers (I know, you're gonna say "Well, duh"), and the Ironmen's ships can sail in even shallow rivers. All they had to do was move the longships from the sea to the rivers, which Vikings in the real world did, and perform blitzkriegs along the rivers moving from place to place quickly, making it difficult to for the Storm King to form a united front when the ironmen were everywhere. As Sun Tzu said the best general was the one who avoided battle. The North, by comparison, is almost as large as the South and doesn't have as many rivers traversing the landscape. The ironmen would have to go on foot for the most part to travel through the North, and Asha notes that Ironmen lack the discipline to withstand an armored charge such as when Dagmer's shieldwall broke at Torrhen's Square. Very true, even his favored heir, Asha, knew conquering the North was a fool's errand, knowing that Balon was blind in some respects.

That's true.  But everything of any strategic value is on the water.  Moat Calin, White Harbor, Karhold, Torren Square, Deepwood, Bear Island, the Dreadfort.  The only ones that are truly safe are the mountain clans.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

MagnusPrime, on 25 April 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

The reason why attacking the North's Western coast insteadf of Lannisport or the Reach initially is really simple....THE NORTH DID NOT HAVE A FREAKING WESTERN FLEET!!! How in the blue blazes does a Kingdom as huge as the North not have a Western fleet when they know that the Iron Born is based right off the coasts in prime position. That is truly the gist of it the Reach has the Redwyne fleet, Lannisport has the Lannister fleet, and the North's western coast is just there. which makes no sense as having a western port the equal of White harbor would have meant more trade with the Westerlands, the Reach and any other trading partner that could be found.

Actually they don't have any fleet, since Brandon the Burner. And that's why Balon attacked them.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Mr Motte, on 25 April 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

If I recall correctly, I'm not sure the Lannisters rebuilt their fleet after the initial rebellion. And what would have stopped the Greyjoys from burning it at the anchor again. I doubt the Lannisters have near as powerful a fleet as the Greyjoys. And the Greyjoys are already hammering at the Reach, soon to deal with the Redwyne Fleet. Its probably not a good idea, but the Greyjoys as a whole dont seem that intelligent.

I don't think the Lannisters did rebuild their fleet.  But if they're on the Iron Throne it doesn't matter much, Tywin could use the Red Wyne fleet to assail Pyke.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

I don't understand this thread. Did Balon not win? Did Asha not gain Deepwood Motte? Did Vic and Theon not cripple the North? Balon only lost because of his brother, not becuase of lack of strategy. Besides Euron is doing a kickass job as a successor, and everybody hates him. I think Balon was a fine King, one of the few players in AGOT who never made a wrong move (aside from not kinslaying). And of course the fact that he's attack Northerners, the people who took his last son from him, makes it so much sweeter

[Barty]

Lord Littlefinger, on 26 April 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

There's no downside to attacking the North.  That's why Balon did it.  Its a viable strategy. Minimax, minimize maximum loss. He's still trying to win. But after his last attempt he's wants minimize the cost of failure.

Its not stupid, its excellent strategy.  Balon's goal is to conqueror the North.  Knowing the aforementioned limitations of the Iron Born, there lack of skill in mounted warfare and siege craft. Knowing that there is a decent chance that they won't win no matter who they attack.  And still wanting the seize the opportunity of a divided realm.  Balon attacks the side with the least ability to strike back at him. The goal is not to carry loot back to islands.  But the worst case scenario against the North is that you get in your ships with all of their shit and go back home.  The Worst case against Tywin Lannister is he stays on the Throne gains access to a fleet and come to Pyke to shove his boot up your ass.  Why would Balon except Robb's offer as presented? There's no way Balon should respect Theon's battle prowess or expect that Robb would be able to best Tywin Lannister. Sending Theon to treat with Balon is evidence of poor judgement on Robb's part.  The thing everyone seems to be forgetting here is that when Balon dies the Captains and Kings all leave with the better part of their force to go to the Kings Moot.  And even then Roose is only able to win North using Theon to trick the unsupported and unreinforced remnants of the army to surrender.  Based on the plan Balon lays out.  He's planning to add forces over time not subtract them.  Asha, Theon and Victarion are only the first wave.

The real failing is Robbs. Had he sent a better envoy . (He may not have had one) and a more carefully worded treatise, he could have won Balon's support and smashed the Lannisters for once and for all. I think he Robb had a Davos type person in his employ he could convinced Balon to take Lannisport.  Maybe even the Great Jon. Theon was certainly a poor choice.

“When I require your counsel I shall ask for it,” his father said. “We have had a bird from Old Wyk. Dagmer is bringing the Drumms and Stonehouses. If the god grants us good winds, we will sail when they arrive... or you will. I mean for you to strike the first blow, Theon. You shall take eight longships north-”

“Eight?” His face reddened. “What can I hope to accomplish with only eight longships?”

“You are to harry the Stony Shore, raiding the fishing villages and sinking any ships you chance to meet. It may be that you will draw some of the northern lords out from behind their stone walls. Aeron will accompany you, and Dagmer Cleftjaw.”

“May the Drowned God bless our swords,” the priest said.

Theon felt as if he’d been slapped. He was being sent to do reaver’s work, burning fishermen out of their hovels and raping their ugly daughters, and yet it seemed Lord Balon did not trust him sufficiently to do even that much. Bad enough to have to suffer the Damphair’s scowls and chidings. With Dagmer Cleftjaw along as well, his command would be purely nominal.

“Asha my daughter,” Lord Balon went on, and Theon turned to see that his sister had slipped in silently, “you shall take thirty longships of picked men round Sea Dragon Point. Land upon the tidal flats north of Deepwood Motte. March quickly, and the castle may fall before they even know you are upon them.”

Asha smiled like a cat in cream. “I’ve always wanted a castle,” she said sweetly.

“Then take one.”

Theon had to bite his tongue. Deepwood Motte was the stronghold of the Glovers. With both Robett and Galbart warring in the south, it would be lightly held, and once the castle fell the ironmen would have a secure base in the heart of the north. I should be the one sent to take Deepwood. He knew Deepwood Motte, he had visited the Glovers several times with Eddard Stark.

“Victarion,” Lord Balon said to his brother, “the main thrust shall fall to you. When my sons have struck their blows, Winterfell must respond. You should meet small opposition as you sail up Saltspear and the Fever River. At the headwaters, you will be less than twenty miles from Moat Cailin. The Neck is the key to the kingdom. Already we command the western seas. Once we hold Moat Cailin, the pup will not be able to win back to the north... and if he is fool enough to try, his enemies will seal the south end of the causeway behind him, and Robb the boy will find himself caught like a rat in a bottle.”

Theon could keep silent no longer. “A bold plan, Father, but the lords in their castles-”

Lord Balon rode over him. “The lords are gone south with the pup. Those who remained behind are the cravens, old men, and green boys. They will yield or fall, one by one. Winterfell may defy us for a year, but what of it? The rest shall be ours, forest and field and hall, and we shall make the folk our thralls and salt wives.”

Its a stupid move - first of all he did not take the reeds and the cranogmen into account - they were part of the reason why no one could take moat cailin from the south - with their aid robb would have taken moat cailin and reached north. Maester Luwin says that Howland Reed could make victarions stay at moat cailin a visit to hell if he so wiished. Balon also underestimated the northmen a lot - Men like Wyman Manderly, Crowfood and whoresbane Umber, Ramsay Snow(he was an enemy of the ironborn as well), Ser Rodrick are no cravens and would have made it impossible for him to hold the north - Ser Rodrick was actually actually winning against the ironborn with these so called green boys and cravens ( this is before Balon died so the whole ironborn stength was still in the north) - he had defeated dagmer cleftjaw and retaken Torrhen's square before he heard of winterfell.

[Castel]

Barty, on 26 April 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

Its a stupid move - first of all he did not take the reeds and the cranogmen into account - they were part of the reason why no one could take moat cailin from the south - with their aid robb would have taken moat cailin and reached north. Maester Luwin says that Howland Reed could make victarions stay at moat cailin a visit to hell if he so wiished. Balon also underestimated the northmen a lot - Men like Wyman Manderly, Crowfood and whoresbane Umber, Ramsay Snow(he was an enemy of the ironborn as well), Ser Rodrick are no cravens and would have made it impossible for him to hold the north - Ser Rodrick was actually actually winning against the ironborn with these so called green boys and cravens ( this is before Balon died so the whole ironborn stength was still in the north) - he had defeated dagmer cleftjaw and retaken Torrhen's square before he heard of winterfell.

If I recall Ser Rodrik fought one fight, against Theon, and he got pureed by Ramsay, with the majority of easily accessible northerners.

Yes, there are some brave northerners, but strategy generally beats out on or two really smart or strong guys. Some of the people on that list are literally on the other side of the continent. The rest are just men beneath castle walls really. They may take a few more men or they may not.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Barty, on 26 April 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

Its a stupid move - first of all he did not take the reeds and the cranogmen into account - they were part of the reason why no one could take moat cailin from the south - with their aid robb would have taken moat cailin and reached north. Maester Luwin says that Howland Reed could make victarions stay at moat cailin a visit to hell if he so wiished.

What do you mean Robb would have? Robb might have.  But by that point Balon is dead and Euron has abandoned Balon's conquest.

Quote

Balon also underestimated the northmen a lot - Men like Wyman Manderly, Crowfood and whoresbane Umber, Ramsay Snow(he was an enemy of the ironborn as well), Ser Rodrick are no cravens and would have made it impossible for him to hold the north - Ser Rodrick was actually actually winning against the ironborn with these so called green boys and cravens ( this is before Balon died so the whole ironborn stength was still in the north) - he had defeated dagmer cleftjaw and retaken Torrhen's square before he heard of winterfell.

Well no Ser Roderick wasn't winning.  Theon told Dagmer to sit and build siege engines to draw Roderick away from Winterfell.  Then Theon just kind of left him twisting in the wind, but that was Theon freelancing and not part of the plan.  Theon was just supposed to harry the Stony Shore not engage in pitched battle.  Asha took thirty longships to conquer Deepwood Motte, a lightly held wooden fort.  Theon only has eight,  7 of which he sent with Dagmer an insufficient number for anything but reaving.

“We have had a bird from Old Wyk. Dagmer is bringing the Drumms and Stonehouses. If the god grants us good winds, we will sail when they arrive... or you will. I mean for you to strike the first blow, Theon. You shall take eight longships north-”

“Eight?” His face reddened. “What can I hope to accomplish with only eight longships?”

“You are to harry the Stony Shore, raiding the fishing villages and sinking any ships you chance to meet. It may be that you will draw some of the northern lords out from behind their stone walls. Aeron will accompany you, and Dagmer Cleftjaw.”

“May the Drowned God bless our swords,” the priest said.

Theon felt as if he’d been slapped. He was being sent to do reaver’s work, burning fishermen out of their hovels and raping their ugly daughters, and yet it seemed Lord Balon did not trust him sufficiently to do even that much. Bad enough to have to suffer the Damphair’s scowls and chidings. With Dagmer Cleftjaw along as well, his command would be purely nominal.

“Asha my daughter,” Lord Balon went on, and Theon turned to see that his sister had slipped in silently, “you shall take thirty longships of picked men round Sea Dragon Point. Land upon the tidal flats north of Deepwood Motte. March quickly, and the castle may fall before they even know you are upon them.”

[Barty]

Castel, on 26 April 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

If I recall Ser Rodrik fought one fight, against Theon, and he got pureed by Ramsay, with the majority of easily accessible northerners.

Yes, there are some brave northerners, but strategy generally beats out on or two really smart or strong guys. Some of the people on that list are literally on the other side of the continent. The rest are just men beneath castle walls really. They may take a few more men or they may not.

He defeated dagmer cleftjaw before coming to winterfell

[Thunderfist]

I´m still waiting for someone to explain why it´s a good idea to invade the poorest and most scarcely populated region when a winter is coming that is likely to kill all or most of the Ironborn

[PrinceHenryris]

I thought the "Old Way" wasn't about taking and holding land, but more about reaving?

[Barty]

Lord Littlefinger, on 26 April 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

What do you mean Robb would have? Robb might have.  But by that point Balon is dead and Euron has abandoned Balon's conquest.  Well no Ser Roderick wasn't winning.  Theon told Dagmer to sit and build siege engines to draw Roderick away from Winterfell.  Then Theon just kind of left him twisting in the wind, but that was Theon freelancing and not part of the plan.  Theon was just supposed to harry the Stony Shore not engage in pitched battle.  Asha took thirty longships to conquer Deepwood Motte, a lightly held wooden fort.  Theon only has eight,  7 of which he sent with Dagmer an insufficient number for anything but reaving.

“We have had a bird from Old Wyk. Dagmer is bringing the Drumms and Stonehouses. If the god grants us good winds, we will sail when they arrive... or you will. I mean for you to strike the first blow, Theon. You shall take eight longships north-”

“Eight?” His face reddened. “What can I hope to accomplish with only eight longships?”

“You are to harry the Stony Shore, raiding the fishing villages and sinking any ships you chance to meet. It may be that you will draw some of the northern lords out from behind their stone walls. Aeron will accompany you, and Dagmer Cleftjaw.”

“May the Drowned God bless our swords,” the priest said.

Theon felt as if he’d been slapped. He was being sent to do reaver’s work, burning fishermen out of their hovels and raping their ugly daughters, and yet it seemed Lord Balon did not trust him sufficiently to do even that much. Bad enough to have to suffer the Damphair’s scowls and chidings. With Dagmer Cleftjaw along as well, his command would be purely nominal.

“Asha my daughter,” Lord Balon went on, and Theon turned to see that his sister had slipped in silently, “you shall take thirty longships of picked men round Sea Dragon Point. Land upon the tidal flats north of Deepwood Motte. March quickly, and the castle may fall before they even know you are upon them.”

How is defeating one of the best commanders of the ironborn not winning??
Anyways - Balon's plan was ruined by Theon - Lets look at Balon's plan- get Asha to capture deepwood motte , get vic to capture Moat cailin leaving theon to do the reaving. Assuming Theon did not attack winterfell - this plan was doomed to failure - with nobody threatening his children Howland reed would have started a brutal guerilla war against Victarion at moat Cailin ( This is something Balon did not anticipate because like everyone lese he doesnt think of the crannogmen as a threat).
His entire plan hinged on Moat Cailin
"The Neck is the key to the kingdom. Already we command the western seas. Once we hold Moat Cailin, the pup will not be able to win back to the north... and if he is fool enough to try, his enemies will seal the south end of the causeway behind him, and Robb the boy will find himself caught like a rat in a bottle.”

Robb would have taken Moat Cailin easily - with ser Rodrick attacking from the north, he could have attacked from the south and the crannogmen attacked the flanks and once Robb was in the north it was game over for the ironborn, unless of course you think Balon anticipated the red wedding and that Robb would never return north. But for debate's sake lets assume that Balon predicts that the young wolf will die in his uncle's wedding and lets assume that Balon still lives. The north is now legally under Roose Bolton - who is not in any mood to share it with the ironborn. Balon is still a rebel to the ironthrone and roose bolton is the tommen's warden of the north - how is Balon planning to hold the north now with the iron throne and the lannisters supporting Bolton? so either way whether Robb lives or dies Balon is screwed and ends up losing the north.

Edited by Barty, 26 April 2012 - 12:45 PM.

[Falrinn]

Thunderfist, on 26 April 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

I´m still waiting for someone to explain why it´s a good idea to invade the poorest and most scarcely populated region when a winter is coming that is likely to kill all or most of the Ironborn

Yeah, there's a reason why the North was largely unconquered for 8,000 years.  Best case scenario for the Ironborn is they take most of the western lands, then they end up in a winter war against White Harbor, the Crannogmen, the Mountain clans, the Karstarks, etc, which would be a no-win situation for a society based on raiding.

White Harbor in particular is something the Ironborn would have a heck of a time trying to conquer.  The city is on the eastern coast of the North in a well-protected bay.  They'd either have to sail around all of Westeros, or march across the entire width of the North, fighting pretty much everyone along the way.  Then when they actually got to White Harbor, they'd have to take on the North's largest fleet, along with what is perhaps the largest and most well-equipped army remaining in the North.

Ultimately the attack on the North was entirely due to it being the weakest possible target.  Had Balon stuck to raiding rather then attempting to outright conquer the North, he might of been able to gain some benefit via tributes.

[Ramsay Gimp]

PrinceHenryris, on 26 April 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

I thought the "Old Way" wasn't about taking and holding land, but more about reaving?

I think that must be the really Old Way, as in before Urron Redhand made the Seastone Chair hereditary.

But by the time Aegon the Conqueror landed, the Ironborn had carved out very large Kingdoms on the mainland. I've been curious for a while how they ruled these areas, especially with subordinate Andal Houses worshipping the Seven and such rather than the Drowned God

[jarl the climber]

It was such a bad strategy that the invasion was completly abandoned by his sucsessor, even though Asha had negotiated a potential peace pact that would have given them the Stony Shore and Sea Dragon Point. There seemed to be much more enthusiam for Eurons strategy of attacking the Reach and allying with the dragon Queen.

Ramsay Gimp, on 26 April 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

I think that must be the really Old Way, as in before Urron Redhand made the Seastone Chair hereditary.

But by the time Aegon the Conqueror landed, the Ironborn had carved out very large Kingdoms on the mainland. I've been curious for a while how they ruled these areas, especially with subordinate Andal Houses worshipping the Seven and such rather than the Drowned God

Harren seems to have ruled his kingdom from the Riverlands. I think it was kind of like Rome in the sense that the conquered lands became more important than the homeland over time.

[The Frosted King]

Ashas plan for the Stony shore and Seadragon point wouldn't work for any northman leader.
Letting your enemies set up permanent residence on your lands isn't seen as strong leadership, so Robb or any Stark wouldn't agree to those terms of hers.
If Asha truly wanted to broker a deal, her hand for the second son of Karstark would've worked, had he not been dead.