45 replies to this topic

[Fragile Bird]

Librarian of Lannisport, on 25 April 2012 - 05:52 PM, said:

Hello.  Long time reader, first time poster.

My theory is that they have excluded Jeyne Poole and added this Ros character so that the Theon storyline will be even more poignant.

I'm always impressed with 1st time posters who start threads, lol!  Perhaps you should change your name to Ser Librarian of Lannisport!

My theory is that Ros is around for Cersei's dark side - she'll be the prostitute whipped when Tyrion takes away Tommen, and she may end up with Qyburn.

[Warhammer]

I was thinking she may be a Sand Snake on some kind of recon mission in deep cover. (Crackpot)

I don't really think the Sansa swap for Ros would work. It would really throw a wrentch into Littlefinger's plans, would be much harder for him to produce the real Sansa if this one gets firmly established.

Plus, I watched enough tv to know hookers know how to fight back, proper ladies don't. 1:1 I'd give an angry hooker a shot against the Bastard of Bolton.

Edited by Warhammer, 26 April 2012 - 05:53 PM.

[boojam]

Librarian of Lannisport, on 25 April 2012 - 05:52 PM, said:

Hello.  Long time reader, first time poster.

I've been noticing that a lot of people are complaining about the inclusion of the prostitute Ros in the show. I can understand that - the character seems to come out of left field.

However there is one character in the books who was mentioned in A Game of Thrones and REALLY became important in A Dance with Dragons, even though she doesn't get a lot of 'screen time'.  And that is Jeyne Poole.

My theory is that they have excluded Jeyne Poole and added this Ros character so that the Theon storyline will be even more poignant.

Spoiler

Given that Theon is castrated, and his relationship with Ros during Season 1, his willingness to overcome his fear of Ramsey Snow is given an extra needed push.

Thoughts?

How many people don't own the DVD's with the commentary?
David Benioff and D. B. Weiss point out the Jeyne Poole character explicity in the cometary for episode 1 , Season 1, at the banquet scene.
Who the actress is , I don't know.

(This keeps coming up would people please go out and buy the DVD and watch it with the commentary.)

Edited by boojam, 26 April 2012 - 06:46 PM.

[Nebmai]

Just because there was a Jeyne in one scene doesn't mean Ros won't be the "Jeyne" fake Stark daughter.

[Balefont]

Woman of War, on 26 April 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

@Balefont
You are incredibly impolite with a first time poster, but maybe you are only trolling and in RL you are totally nice.

Sorry.  You're right.  I was short with the new poster.  Patience wears thin with people who don't take te time to lurk before blowing their load on starting a New Theory Thread.

Kids these days not doing their homework and all that.

[Harimad]

I think using Ros as a Chatya/Alayaya (spelling, apologies, I'm too lazy to reach over to the bookshelf) makes the most sense. That said, the show has already deviated in a few ways from the books and I'm doing my best (and often failing) to trust GRRM and D&D. I think the Arya-Jeyne-Bolton story line is really interesting and hasn't played itself out yet. I guess we have to remember that the character list does...shrink...somewhat later on so it is plausible that Jeyne could reappear. Her relationship with Sansa could be explained in a few words (if necessary) or she could simply be a girl they found that looks like Arya.

I understood the use of her and the other whore to show Joffrey's real sadistic side and that if they start showing him shooting cats with crossbolts in the next episode, that will be just another facet to his twisted little mind. I have not understood some of the Ros scenes and though they were somewhat gratuitous, not necessarily in nudity but more in that they seemed out of place --I guess i'm deviating back to the Littlefinger scene. Not a huge fan of her either, but GRRM has all sorts of tricks up his sleeve and he's running this crazy ship.

How is everyone feeling about the changes in the Qarth-Danaerys storyline?

[Librarian of Lannisport]

Again, my apologies for having upset or offended any 'keepers of board' due to my inadequate diligence in looking at threads before posting.

Harimand - I guess part of my concern is that I'm not really sure how much of the series ship GRRM is really running.  But I imagine we'll all know in time - if HBO sticks with the series through the bitter end.  But the use as Chatya/Alayaya stand in does make sense.  I just can't get past her northern origins.

I'm not sure how I feel about the changes in Danaeys storyline.  I'm really interested to see how they handle the House of the Undying.  But then, I must admit that Danaery has never been my favorite chapters of the book to read. :-)  I don't really know why, except to say that she doesn't seem that much of an inspired leader to me.

[Khal-a-bunga]

I totally agree that Ros is being set up to take the place of Alayaya in the show, especially after the last episode (Garden of Bones). I imagine Tyrion will visit Ros in the brothels (or possibly have her brought to his chambers) where one of Cersei's spies will witness this and tell her. They're not going to have that scene with Joffrey and not have it pay off somewhere down the line, and I'm pretty positive this will be it. As far as Ros having different origins than the original character - does it really matter?

[atia-]

Welcome OP.  This isn't aimed at you directly (it's not even what you said, exactly).  

I don't know much I can express the ridiculousness of the idea that Ros may be fake Arya Stark.  Now if they decide to scrap the idea of a fake Arya Stark marrying Roose Bolton altogether, well, I don't like that idea either....but maybe they could do something with Ros, since D&D love her so.  

But if Ros actually replaces Jeyne Poole, that's just plain idiotic.  Maisie Williams is 15 and not only that but looks like a bit younger (and she's supposed to be, even in the show), while the woman who plays Ros is 30 and looks it.  The idea that anyone thinks Ros could pass off as a fake Arya just baffles me.

[Librarian of Lannisport]

hk47, on 26 April 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

Welcome OP.  This isn't aimed at you directly (it's not even what you said, exactly).  

I don't know much I can express the ridiculousness of the idea that Ros may be fake Arya Stark.  Now if they decide to scrap the idea of a fake Arya Stark marrying Roose Bolton altogether, well, I don't like that idea either....but maybe they could do something with Ros, since D&D love her so.

But if Ros actually replaces Jeyne Poole, that's just plain idiotic.  Maisie Williams is 15 and not only that but looks like a bit younger (and she's supposed to be, even in the show), while the woman who plays Ros is 30 and looks it.  The idea that anyone thinks Ros could pass off as a fake Arya just baffles me.

I agree with you about the ridulousness of idea.  It DOES seem stupid given their age discrepancies.  The only way around it might be the fact that once the fake Arya is married, no one really sees her because Ramsey keeps her imprisoned in 'their' chamber. *shudder*   So who's to say Ayra's time under the 'tender' care of the Lannisters didn't age her prematurely. As for the hair color issue - if Sansa can dye her hair for Littlefinger, so can Ros.

Personally, I think it would have been just as easy to include Jeyne in scenes with Sansa prior to Robert's death (never like the Septa) and shown her being 'educated' by Littlefinger - even beaten by Joff (wouldn't THAT have thrilled him?  He would have gladly have used Jeyne as a scapegoat) - in order to keep her in people's minds.  But Jeyne did not have that sexual connection with Theon (thank god!), and I feel that D&D are setting up the Theon storyline.

Not saying it's a good idea - I don't think it is.  I just think this is where the producers are headed.  But I could easily be wrong and they're only including Ros for the sex scenes.

Edited by Librarian of Lannisport, 26 April 2012 - 10:02 PM.

[Raksha the Demon]

It could be that Ros will flee back to the North; and wind up in the Dreadfort as Ramsey's favorite whore; so that she can have poignant scenes with Reeky Theon there without masquerading as Arya.  Of course, Ramsey doesn't have favorite prostitutes/concubines; we know what he does to the ones he likes; but they've already changed the story, what's one more tweak?  Or, they could have Ros and Theon sub for Kyra and Theon, with the escape/hunt occurring much later; and have Ros either be killed and Theon escape or both of them make it to Stannis' forces - but then why would he put himself out to do anything for a prostitute?  As I recall, Stannis is not particularly sensitive to the difficulties faced by prostitutes, even prostitutes who have been abused (as she would have been to some degree by Ramsey).  

They really should have kept Jeyne Poole with Sansa; which would have not cost much money; she didn't have much dialogue in King's Landing, more like a lot of crying after the Lannister coup, poor thing; and then she would have been taken away by Cersei and  Littlefinger would have placed her in one of his whorehouses (which didn't have to be shown, just mentioned), where she would have stayed unseen until they needed her to be fake-Arya.  

Edited by Raksha the Demon, 27 April 2012 - 05:08 AM.

[Balefont]

See this is another reason why this made up character must go: She's the subject of overmuch discussion and speculation.

[Brienne the Beauty]

Balefont, on 27 April 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

See this is another reason why this made up character must go: She's the subject of overmuch discussion and speculation.

Since she's the only character we don't know the general fate of, this is inevitable.

[Tadco26]

Khal-a-bunga, on 26 April 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

I totally agree that Ros is being set up to take the place of Alayaya in the show, especially after the last episode (Garden of Bones). I imagine Tyrion will visit Ros in the brothels (or possibly have her brought to his chambers) where one of Cersei's spies will witness this and tell her. They're not going to have that scene with Joffrey and not have it pay off somewhere down the line, and I'm pretty positive this will be it. As far as Ros having different origins than the original character - does it really matter?

It's possible, though the only resemblance to Alayaya would be her being beaten.  Shae is already inside the castle as Sansa's hand maid, and Cersei "catching" Tyrion with Ros could easily be explained truthfully as him visiting her because he paid her to visit Joffrey.   Also it was Varys who helped orchestrate Tyrion's secret get togethers, Littlefinger owns Ros' brothel.  Ros taking a beating because Cersei believes it will hurt Tyrion when Ros has no idea why she is being punished, is not the same as Alayaya knowingly helping Tyrion and getting punished for it while protecting Tyrion and Shae.

The Alayaya substitution would have made more sense if they had kept Tyrion sneaking around to see Shae, but so far he has already had her in his room in the Tower of the Hand (where he comments how Ned slept on this bed to her), and despite his comments that he wants to keep her hidden from the queen, we have seen no evidence of him sneaking around to see her so far.  Certainly they COULD rewrite the story so that she is necessary again, but why move up Shae becoming Sansa's handmaid, instead of sticking closer to the original plot and having Tyrion have to sneak thru the brothel secret passages?  They also have not given any clues to the secret tunnels inside the Red Keep yet.  Ros has had an awful lot of scenes setting her up, if her only resemblance to Alayaya is to take a beating from Cersei.

Edited by Tadco26, 27 April 2012 - 09:45 AM.

[Balefont]

Tadco26, on 27 April 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

Ros has had an awful lot of scenes setting her up, if her only resemblance to Alayaya is to take a beating from Cersei.

Don't forget all the sexposition!

[BoldAsYouPlease]

ace, on 26 April 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

Ros doesn't exist for any storyline reason. She exists for one and only purpose: to strip. When/if she grows tired of stripping or becomes too old to make virgin teens horny she'll die (no doubt naked) and be replaced with another stripper. I don't understand why so many people keep discussing the storyline value/deeper meaning of these T&A scenes. Love them of hate them at least be honest with yourself about what they're there for.

Actually, I don't remember seeing Ros without clothes this season - I saw another poster mention that the actress might have been pregnant during filming. So they're bent on continuing with the Ros character, clothes or not, which makes the reason for the character's existence all the more mystifying.

[Khal-a-bunga]

Tadco26, on 27 April 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

It's possible, though the only resemblance to Alayaya would be her being beaten.  Shae is already inside the castle as Sansa's hand maid, and Cersei "catching" Tyrion with Ros could easily be explained truthfully as him visiting her because he paid her to visit Joffrey.   Also it was Varys who helped orchestrate Tyrion's secret get togethers, Littlefinger owns Ros' brothel.  Ros taking a beating because Cersei believes it will hurt Tyrion when Ros has no idea why she is being punished, is not the same as Alayaya knowingly helping Tyrion and getting punished for it while protecting Tyrion and Shae.

The Alayaya substitution would have made more sense if they had kept Tyrion sneaking around to see Shae, but so far he has already had her in his room in the Tower of the Hand (where he comments how Ned slept on this bed to her), and despite his comments that he wants to keep her hidden from the queen, we have seen no evidence of him sneaking around to see her so far.  Certainly they COULD rewrite the story so that she is necessary again, but why move up Shae becoming Sansa's handmaid, instead of sticking closer to the original plot and having Tyrion have to sneak thru the brothel secret passages?  They also have not given any clues to the secret tunnels inside the Red Keep yet.  Ros has had an awful lot of scenes setting her up, if her only resemblance to Alayaya is to take a beating from Cersei.

I forgot to mentioned that Tyrion would be visiting Ros to inquire about what happened with Joffrey (or something along those lines), but Cersei wouldn't realize that (as you already mentioned; Ros isn't as complicit as Alayaya had been in the novels). But again, this is an adaptation of the novels, so it may play out a bit differently while retaining the same function to the plot. If anything, I think this makes the most sense both from an economical storytelling stand-point, and from how Ros has been developed throughout the course of this season. A lot of people have mentioned that Ros may have gained weight or that she may be pregnant, which is why we haven't seen her portrayed as she was last season for the most part (i.e. naked). I'm of the thinking that she's kept her clothes on so the audience is more easily able to focus on her as a character, and provide a bit more legitimacy when she's taken by Cersei (or whatever ends up happening).

Ros a Jeyne Poole on the other hand... Incredibly stupid (no offense meant, but it is dumb).

[CrypticWeirwood]

Buckwheat, on 26 April 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

ADWD, when we learn about Jeyne Poole's fate, was released after they have already shot the first season. They could not be thinking that far ahead, because they did not even have the necessary information.

No, that’s untrue.  David and Dan read the draft of Dance before they shot the first season, and also conferred with Martin extensively.  They certainly knew of Jeyne Poole’s eventual rôle in Dance.

[Tadco26]

Khal-a-bunga, on 27 April 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

I forgot to mentioned that Tyrion would be visiting Ros to inquire about what happened with Joffrey (or something along those lines), but Cersei wouldn't realize that (as you already mentioned; Ros isn't as complicit as Alayaya had been in the novels). But again, this is an adaptation of the novels, so it may play out a bit differently while retaining the same function to the plot. If anything, I think this makes the most sense both from an economical storytelling stand-point, and from how Ros has been developed throughout the course of this season. A lot of people have mentioned that Ros may have gained weight or that she may be pregnant, which is why we haven't seen her portrayed as she was last season for the most part (i.e. naked). I'm of the thinking that she's kept her clothes on so the audience is more easily able to focus on her as a character, and provide a bit more legitimacy when she's taken by Cersei (or whatever ends up happening).

Ros a Jeyne Poole on the other hand... Incredibly stupid (no offense meant, but it is dumb).

I don't think Ros is a bad actress, and some of her scenes have played out fine for me.  But even the original Alayaya is a very minor character in the grand scheme of things, and I always saw her point being the go between for Shae, which is no longer needed.  If you cut out Alayaya's original purpose, then dropping her entire story completely makes sense from a time saving aspect.

That being said I wouldn't be shocked if you were right and they ended one of the episodes with Cersei confronting Tyrion and saying "I have your whore", cut to the credits and find out it is Ros next week.  Which could be fine, but I won't accept that as a good justification for the number of other scenes she has been in if that is supposed to be the big pay off.

[_Oberyn_]

Balefont, on 26 April 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

Sorry.  You're right.  I was short with the new poster.  Patience wears thin with people who don't take te time to lurk before blowing their load on starting a New Theory Thread.

In his defence i have a sneaky suspicion alot of people have been "blowing their load" at this Ros thing