194 replies to this topic

[Stop Rhaegar HAMMERTIME!]

If Sansa Marries Harry the heir and sweet Robin dies , will it make her Lady of Winterfell, the Riverlands and the Eyrie?
The Riverlands are Tully-less what with Edmure a captive will they appoint Sansa the Heir or the BF?

If so what's her next move? Retake Winterfell from Stannis/ Boltons? Declare herself Queen of the  North and march on KL? Keep acting like a timid little mouse? Eat Lemoncakes?

But most of all :

What's LF up to?

[Grumpy Midget]

Well according to Marx LF is plotting for the overthrow of the landed nobility and the rise of the merchant class.  Cause we all know that the proletarian revolution cannot happen if the bourgeoisie revolution don't  happen first.

[Lan the Clever]

Grumpy Midget, on 25 April 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

Well according to Marx LF is plotting for the overthrow of the landed nobility and the rise of the merchant class.  Cause we all know that the proletarian revolution cannot happen if the bourgeoisie revolution don't  happen first.

Fabulous post! Yeah, LF should shave his head. He's Lex Freaking Luthor.

[Stoned Dragon]

LF is awesome but the man isn't magical. For his scheme to work he has to get the militant and recently armed High Septon to dissolve Sansa'a marriage to Tyrion, a monarch willing to absolve her of any guilt in Joffrey's murder - and that's just to marry Harry the Heir (which may not happen since he has the finally say). To become Lady of Winterfell she needs to do all of the above (since no Northerner is going to declare for Sansa if she's married to a Lannister) and hope that neither Bran nor Rickon return to Winterfell, and pray that the three ships carrying Robb's will to Howland Reed never got there, since most evidence suggests Robb named Jon Snow his heir, or she has to hope that Jon Snow is dead and/or takes his vows to wall seriously. That off course doesn't even take into account the fact that she'd have to conquer or subdue some houses in the North just to regain control. Oh, and she has to hope nobody cares that much if for the first time ever a woman claims Winterfell in her own right and not because of her husband or children.

Now, if all of that manages to happen, then she has to hope Edmure's child dies and/or he dies and/or the Riverlands ask her to come (Why would they, when there is Bran/Rickon out there?).

Again, I'd be surprised if the dominos fell that neatly.

The better question is what does LF get out of this arrangement?  I honestly think that her marrying Harry the Heir is actually about making the Lords Declarant situation a mute point and positioning himself as a serious power broker considering he has the heir to one of the northern houses in his custody. I mean, since he owns all of Harry the Heir's family's debt and rescued Sansa twice (KL and Lysa) he pretty much can do what he wants if he gets them into power -- even if that power is just in the Eeyrie. It seems that he is the balance against Varys - while Varys is playing with fire ("Aegon") LF is playing with Ice.

Edited by Stoned Dragon, 25 April 2012 - 07:05 PM.

[Tumnas the Torpid]

I don't think that Littlefinger intends to make a claim to Riverrun through Sansa.  But if he handles revealing her to the world correctly, her Tully look could potentially generate a lot of sympathy in the Riverlands, making it easier for Baelish to draw them into an alliance with the Vale (and possibly some of the North).

This is interesting because if, all of a sudden, Littlefinger is the man who saved Catelyn Tully's beautiful daughter from the reviled Lannisters, it may cause some River lords to change their position on Baelish's nominal Lord Paramount-ship.

As far as any legal difficulties previous posters have highlighted, none of them will matter if Baelish can gather enough swords.  It may be that the Knights of the Vale would be enough, but when you add whatever elements of the North or the Trident Petyr will be able to seduce, the end result will probably be valuable enough to one or more of the contenders to the Iron Throne to produce as many pardons, permissions, etc. as Petyr needs.

Unless, of course, he intends to sit Harrold on that Throne.  In which case, Petyr makes the rules.

[FuzzyJAM]

Grumpy Midget, on 25 April 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

Well according to Marx LF is plotting for the overthrow of the landed nobility and the rise of the merchant class.  Cause we all know that the proletarian revolution cannot happen if the bourgeoisie revolution don't  happen first.

Oh man.  Makes so much sense.  What better way to disguise your communist ideals than being the ultimate capitalist?  We all know that feudalism must first develop into capitalism before socialism and then communism; Littlefinger is just speeding up the process.  ASoIaF is actually a treatise on communism in fantasy.  It all makes sense now.

In all seriousness, Littlefinger's moves seem to be opportunistic more than anything.  His powerbase is smoke and mirrors - it relies on revealing Sansa, but before he can do that he must have the ability to control the realm.  His only chance is using Sansa, with the potential Stark-Tully-Arryn alliance she could create, as a bargaining chip with another power base.  Considering Sansa's relative weakness as a bargaining chip compared to what he thinks she is (thanks to Bran and Rickon both being alive) and the fact that I don't see any other group he can ally with as of now, I don't see him gaining much success.  Perhaps support of Aegon or Dany is his best bet, but what would he really get from that?  Maybe legitimised control over the Riverlands with vassals who accept him, being the "saviour" of Cat's girl?  Eh. . .whatever he wants, I don't think he's going to get it.

[the Scorpion Knight]

FuzzyJAM, on 25 April 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

Oh man.  Makes so much sense.  What better way to disguise your communist ideals than being the ultimate capitalist?  We all know that feudalism must first develop into capitalism before socialism and then communism; Littlefinger is just speeding up the process.  ASoIaF is actually a treatise on communism in fantasy.  It all makes sense now.

In all seriousness, Littlefinger's moves seem to be opportunistic more than anything.  His powerbase is smoke and mirrors - it relies on revealing Sansa, but before he can do that he must have the ability to control the realm.  His only chance is using Sansa, with the potential Stark-Tully-Arryn alliance she could create, as a bargaining chip with another power base.  Considering Sansa's relative weakness as a bargaining chip compared to what he thinks she is (thanks to Bran and Rickon both being alive) and the fact that I don't see any other group he can ally with as of now, I don't see him gaining much success.  Perhaps support of Aegon or Dany is his best bet, but what would he really get from that?  Maybe legitimised control over the Riverlands with vassals who accept him, being the "saviour" of Cat's girl?  Eh. . .whatever he wants, I don't think he's going to get it.

not to mention the highly possible restoration of the tullys (supported by jaime amd done by the BwB), or that jeyne poole is LIVING to tell her tale. or the lords declarant invitin aegon and the war he brings to the vale

[Leto]

Stoned Dragon, on 25 April 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

and pray that the three ships carrying Robb's will to Howland Reed never got there, since most evidence suggests Robb named Jon Snow his heir, or she has to hope that Jon Snow is dead and/or takes his vows to wall seriously.

Pfft... Rob made Theon his heir, the prince of Winterfell!

[Lord Damian]

The Freys still have to be dealt with in the Riverlands, half of them anyway since the other half is in the North and will most likely never return to the Twins, alive. LF, I think will see a better advantage and marry Sansa to

Spoiler

Aegon/Young Griff

Edited by Lord Damian, 26 April 2012 - 07:31 AM.

[Jayce]

Sansa is outed laying a verbal claim to Winterfell.
Robin names Sansa as his hier, then dies.
She becomes Lady of the North and the Vale.
LF manoeuvres the Riverlands in to accepting Sansa as the Tully heir (or similar).
More machinations, LF dies, Sansa is an expert player by now.
Tyrion returns and claims Casterly Rock, Sansa consummates their wedding (finally) and becomes Lady of the North, Casterly Rock, the Vale and the Riverlands.
Tyrion dies, the war continues, things happen, Sansa marries the Tyrell heir (Wylas?), who tragically dies.
Sansa moves on to Dorans younger son (Trystan? who might be of age by now), making her the Lady of the North, Casterly Rock, the Vale, the Riverlands, Highgarden and Dorne!
More war, fighting and such, Trystan dies (gah! shes worse the Margery), the war is winding down and is now Sansa against Stannis who holds the north even though she is Lady of the North!
The Others finally come, Stannis (who conveniently is no longer married, she died when Jon did) marries Sansa, sealing all seven kingdoms again and they fight the Others!

Queen Sansa, Lady of the North, Casterly Rock, the Riverlands, the Vale, Highgarden, Dorne and the Stormlands. Queen of Westeros!

Or something...

Edited by Jayce, 26 April 2012 - 09:38 AM.

[flinky]

as much as i didn't enjoy reading a teenage girls' thoughts written by an older man, i cant see any of that happening imho

[Dr. Pepper]

Jayce, on 26 April 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

Queen Sansa, Lady of the North, Casterly Rock, the Riverlands, the Vale, Highgarden, Dorne and the Stormlands. Queen of Westeros!

Or something...

Eek, think of how many children she'd have to pop out in order to have enough heirs to inherit all of those claims.

[Lyanna Stark]

Stop Rhaegar HAMMERTIME!, on 25 April 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

If Sansa Marries Harry the heir and sweet Robin dies , will it make her Lady of Winterfell, the Riverlands and the Eyrie?
The Riverlands are Tully-less what with Edmure a captive will they appoint Sansa the Heir or the BF?

If so what's her next move? Retake Winterfell from Stannis/ Boltons? Declare herself Queen of the  North and march on KL? Keep acting like a timid little mouse? Eat Lemoncakes?

But most of all :

What's LF up to?

Sansa hasn't been timid or nibbling on lemoncakes since AGOT, not sure if we're reading the same series.

That said, I don't think it matters what LF is planning, since he himself said that sometimes even the humblest pawns will not do what you want them to, and as soon as Sansa learns that LF betrayed her father to his death, he is a dead man walking due to Chekov's Smoking Hairnet.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

the Scorpion Knight, on 26 April 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

not to mention the highly possible restoration of the tullys (supported by jaime amd done by the BwB), or that jeyne poole is LIVING to tell her tale. or the lords declarant invitin aegon and the war he brings to the vale

What tale? All Petyr did was get the kid a job.  If there's anyone for her to be upset with its Tywin, Cersei, Roose and Ramsay.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Lyanna Stark, on 26 April 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

Sansa hasn't been timid or nibbling on lemoncakes since AGOT, not sure if we're reading the same series. That said, I don't think it matters what LF is planning, since he himself said that sometimes even the humblest pawns will not do what you want them to, and as soon as Sansa learns that LF betrayed her father to his death, he is a dead man walking due to Chekov's Smoking Hairnet.

I wouldn't really call it betrayal.  I mean unless you want to say Ned betrayed Petyr by trying to put Stannis on the throne.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

the Scorpion Knight, on 26 April 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

not to mention the highly possible restoration of the tullys (supported by jaime amd done by the BwB), or that jeyne poole is LIVING to tell her tale. or the lords declarant invitin aegon and the war he brings to the vale

  P.S. You're aware Young Griff only has 10,000 men and that they're scattered half way from the Rainwood to Volantis? Right?

[Apple Martini]

Well technically Sansa still needs to get out of her marriage to Tyrion. She might also have been disinherited from getting Winterfell in Robb's will. And Edmure and his child would both need to die. Aaaand the Freys need to get kicked out of Riverrun, with extreme prejudice.

So while I personally think the endgame is a kingdom of the North, Vale and Riverlands, there's still a long way to go.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

FuzzyJAM, on 25 April 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

Oh man. Makes so much sense. What better way to disguise your communist ideals than being the ultimate capitalist? We all know that feudalism must first develop into capitalism before socialism and then communism; Littlefinger is just speeding up the process. ASoIaF is actually a treatise on communism in fantasy. It all makes sense now.  

Socialism is capitalism.

Quote

In all seriousness, Littlefinger's moves seem to be opportunistic more than anything. His powerbase is smoke and mirrors - it relies on revealing Sansa,  

What the fuck are you talking about?  As far as we know no one knows who Sansa is.  Sansa didn't making him Lord Protector of the Vale or Lord Paramount of the Trident.  

As for the whole hairy heir nonsense.  I don't believe it, it didn't make any sense.

Quote

but before he can do that he must have the ability to control the realm. His only chance is using Sansa, with the potential Stark-Tully-Arryn  

the Starks, Tullys and Arryns are all dead or abased .

Quote

alliance she could create, as a bargaining chip with another power base. Considering Sansa's relative weakness as a bargaining chip compared to what he thinks she is (thanks to Bran and Rickon both being alive) and the fact that I don't see any other group he can ally with as of now, I don't see him gaining much success. Perhaps support of Aegon or Dany is his best bet, but what would he really get from that? Maybe legitimised control over the Riverlands with vassals who accept him, being the "saviour" of Cat's girl? Eh. . .whatever he wants, I don't think he's going to get it.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

The Riverlands aren't even worth having.  I'd rather be Sea Lord of Braavos

Apple Martini, on 26 April 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

Well technically Sansa still needs to get out of her marriage to Tyrion. She might also have been disinherited from getting Winterfell in Robb's will. And Edmure and his child would both need to die. Aaaand the Freys need to get kicked out of Riverrun, with extreme prejudice. So while I personally think the endgame is a kingdom of the North, Vale and Riverlands, there's still a long way to go.

King of the North, Vale, Riverlands, Westerlands, Reach, Crownlands, Dorne and the Iron Islands.

[WinterWarrior]

Hmmm...I never thought about Sansa and Aegon. That is an interesting thought...she would be queen and maybe she would end up being the queen that topples Cersei.....

I like that.