27 replies to this topic

[DoctorSwerve]

There are many mysteries unresolved in regard to Bloodraven.  We know that he was last seen as the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch prior to seeing him in ADWD.  I have many questions.

How did he end up in his current predicament?  
Did the COTF capture him while he was Lord Commander?  
Did he seek out the COTF?  
Did he die and later reawoken by the COTF, similar to Coldhands?
Is he a wight?
Did he willingly serve the COTF, or do they serve him?  
What connection does Bloodraven have with the Others?  
Did Bloodraven wake up the Others?
What will happen to Bloodraven once Bran has assumed all duties?
Will Bloodraven simply die?
Will Bloodraven walk out of there?
Does Bloodraven have unfinished business?
Is Bloodraven an agent for good, evil, or himself?
Are there any others that may be under Bloodraven's control in Westeros?

I think that Bloodraven will have a great impact on the future events in the last couple of books, though I'm having a hard time connecting the dots.  Why would GRRM bring him back in the first place unless there was some unresolved business for him from the Dunk & Egg stories?  I can't wait to see how this plays out.

[ghost the direwolf]

i want to believe that he is doing everything for the good of Westeros, the CoTF and the old Gods. And yes he has unfinished business : Bran for one,
I hope Martin will explain more in the next book (of course)

[Monk Meth-]

bloodravens end game is to haev bran take is place.

[gougef]

Monk Meth-, on 26 April 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

bloodravens end game is to haev bran take is place.

Sort of like the Great Machine in Babylon 5.

[Ser Wun Wun]

Main goal:  Either destroy the Others, or forge some sort of peace with them.  Train Bran to replace him too.

I also think he wants to restore Targs to the throne, which is why he has taken an interest in Jon.  Like a lot of other people, I'm convinced he is warging Mormont's raven to keep tabs on him.  The most glaring proof of this, for me, is when Jon fights the wight in AGOT, and the raven screams "Burn! burn!" without any human even saying that word.  So it wasn't just parroting words, it was telling Jon what to do.  No non-warged raven should be that clever, no way.

If that is the case, then the number of times that bird says 'King" around Jon has got to be foreshadowing.  We know Bloodraven fought against Targ pretenders once before, so it would be fitting if the last thing he does in life is help Jon and/or Dany defeat Aegon, who may or may not be a Blackfyre, but is definitely a fake in any case.

Edited by Ser Wun Wun, 26 April 2012 - 01:43 PM.

[The GreatRon]

Mormonts Raven also called him "Jon Snow" shortly before getting stabbed, which Jon thought was very strange.

[Grumpy Midget]

Well, at least we found out who this guy's father was.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=hMczUkououg

[Vinterhed]

Could Blood-Raven have any connection to Varys or Little Finger?
I wasn't aware of him being in Dunk and Egg but I havent read those stories on the other hand.

[Budj]

I still think Bloodraven and whatever he does is what saves Jon and not R'hollor / Mel.

[Serie]

Vinterhed, on 26 April 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

Could Blood-Raven have any connection to Varys or Little Finger?
I wasn't aware of him being in Dunk and Egg but I havent read those stories on the other hand.

not likely IMHO
but since he can see everything he's most probably aware of them and their actions

[Patchface12]

To educate Bran on the nature of the Others and how to defeat them before he dies

[James Arryn]

DoctorSwerve, on 26 April 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

How did he end up in his current predicament?  

Like you've never had a bad night in Vegas?

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Did the COTF capture him while he was Lord Commander?  

Nobody captured me. They tricked me. 'Hey, dude, wanna come explore your roots?' Fucking literal little bastards.

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Did he seek out the COTF?

No, I didn't. At best I was looking for good late night pizza. Hard to get anywhere. At the Wall it's damn near impossible.

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Did he die and later reawoken by the COTF, similar to Coldhands?

Who the fuck is Coldhands? That's a scary sounding name. With my luck he's that squirrely little guy who keeps wanting to give me a back-rub.

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Is he a wight?

Yeah, I'm fine. Thanks for asking.

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Did he willingly serve the COTF, or do they serve him?

They're stingy little twits. Every now and then they bring me some mulch, but that's about it. Oh, wait, water. They throw water on me, sometimes.

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What connection does Bloodraven have with the Others?

Look, a guy can get lonely. Heard of beer goggles? Try a sap monocle. Man, you fuck one ice-monster, its like you're the Gestapo.

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Did Bloodraven wake up the Others?

Crap, I hope not. Those guys are moody as hell. But anyways, I doubt it was me. Probably that Coldhands bastard. He always flushes like 3 times, day or night, and then leaves the light on so someone else has to get up and turn it off.

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What will happen to Bloodraven once Bran has assumed all duties?

Wait, what? They're grooming my replacement? They told me that little guy was just supposed to "assist" me. Restructuring my ass, they're looking to cut salary, the chizzling little bastards. Remember what I told you about the mulch? Fuckers!

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Will Bloodraven simply die?

It's funny you ask, because just the other day that creepy little guy who hangs out with my ''assistant'' asked me if I got any satisfaction from knowing I would live on forever in my magic, and I answered that I'd rather live on forever in my apartment. Ha! Woodys have to stick together.

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Will Bloodraven walk out of there?

Not more fucking Ents!

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Does Bloodraven have unfinished business?

Yes! Lots. Stuff my 'assistant' couldn't do in a month of namedays.

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Is Bloodraven an agent for good, evil, or himself?

Agent? I'm the fucking quarterback.

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Are there any others that may be under Bloodraven's control in Westeros?

Oh, like I don't see where this is going. Listen, you're not going to drop that Wedding shit on me. People always blame me for everything. If I wasn't there, I was still behind it. Hey, go stop this rebellion! Done. Kinslayer! WTF? Run the realm, the kings suck. Okay, done. "Evil sorcerer!" See what I mean? Can't win for losing. It's all about skin color, that's my take. Finally they send me to the wall for pissing in one playground, and it was at night! There were no kids anywhere around! How does that get me the Wall? But anyways, I go, I do my thing, get elected top dog, and then I get one craving for pizza, and wham bam, I'm a fucking vegetable. I don't even remember what pizza smells like anymore. And while I'm up here, eating mulch and trying to cure the non-stop boredom with occasional shroom tips, I still get accused of all kinds of stuff. Seriously, it's like I was born wearing an 'I'm with stupid" t-shirt with the arrow pointing up. I give up. Let that gloomy little shit have the job, I'm done.

Edited by James Arryn, 26 April 2012 - 02:32 PM.

[Apple Martini]

The answer to, dead serious, virtually all of your questions is, "We don't really know for sure."

As for his endgame ...

1. Tree.
2. Call Bran.
3. Weirwood "paste."
4. Warg crow.
5. ???
6. ???
7. ???
8. PROFIT.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Bloodraven is, for all practical purposes, dead.  His consciousness is maintained by the weirwoods, but those weirwoods have totally taken over his body.  He has a root entering his thigh and emerging from his shoulder, and another root emerging from his missing eye, which I imagine must go through his brain.  He is fading, and soon he will become like those COTF greenseers that Bran sees on his way through the tunnels, totally absorbed by the weirwoods.

I think that he spent the first half of his life serving the interests of his father's family, the Targaryens, and now he's serving the "interests," so to speak, of his mother's ancient family the Blackwoods.  Those interests, imo, are the ways and religion of the First Men, from whom the Blackwoods have descended.  I agree that BR's immediate goal is training Bran to replace him, but how they're going to do whatever it is they're going to do by sending dreams or talking through ravens is a mystery to me, which I guess is what keeps me reading.

[N. Baratheon]

I think that Bloodraven is grooming Bran to take his place.  However there are two problems I think BR will have to face:
1) Bran may be growing more powerful than BR.
2) Bran probably won't want to stay in that cave for the rest of his life.

[Ser Steele]

Yea, staying planted to a tree for the rest of your life at 10 years old doesn't exactly seem like something you would want to do. Alas, I can't wait to see where this is going.

[Ser Pythagoras]

I haven't read the dunk and egg stories yet, but from the wiki it doesn't seem that br has any connection to any of the prophecies in the main books, besides generally being considered a sorcerer. I hope we are all just comPletely missing the truth and that the last two books just blow our minds.

[Tumnas the Torpid]

DoctorSwerve, on 26 April 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

  
What connection does Bloodraven have with the Others?  
Did Bloodraven wake up the Others?

As other posters have been hinting at, Martin has deliberately given us so little information as to be unable to truly and surely answer any of your questions.  With regards to the two above, however, I think there've been enough clues to make one general assumption:

Bloodraven opposes the Others.
-In his first appearance (of sorts), our three-eyed crow woke Bran from his coma, and may have saved his life - but first he showed him that Winter was coming.  Although it is never stated explicitly, this reads as a warning, not a celebration.

-Wights can not enter Bloodraven's lair, not even Coldhands.  Lest anyone take working with a dead man as suspect behavior for any 'opponent' of the Others, recall the lack of blue light in Coldhands's eyes.

-Bloodraven works in close concert with (maybe all of)the remaining Children of the Forest, who have a long history of opposing the Others.  Why else wield obsidian?

From this evidence, I think it is safe to (provisionally) conclude that Bloodraven intends to stop the Others from overrunning Westeros, if that is, indeed, their goal.  It remains to be seen whether he will actually be successful in his efforts.  See Melisandre.

[Romano Cheese]

1. we dont know how bloodraven got there...ASOIAF and the Dunk & Egg stories aren't finished so we could get all of this information in the last books or maybe he plans on putting all these tid bits into the Dunk & Egg stories for it to make total sense to those who read both and say to themselves "ohhh thats why bloodraven isn't Lord Commander anymore"

2. no clue if he is died or not. perhaps once he became old he had learned of some way to keep himself alive. lots of folks in the Dunk & Egg stories call him a sorcerer so he may have found a way to pull that off.

3. i dont think he is a wight because i think recalling when Bran was describing him that he had one red eye, even though he is an albino i think if he was turned into a wight it would be blue.

4. i dont think bloodraven serves the COTF or the other way around. i think they are just working together for a common cause of killing Others.

5. we just dont have that information, but it could be likely that as Lord Commander that he or some rangers encountered Others while he was still in the Nights Watch. also on that note he could have encountered the COTF, perhaps they saved him from an attack by the Others.

6. the Others could have been in hibernation since the Long Night, but i doubt an old Lord Commander(or anyone who used to be a "kneeler") is going to decide to join the dark side and destroy the Wall/realm he helped defend for so long.

7. no clue if he will die once he is done training Bran or what. his description makes it seem like dude isnt walking anywhere ever again.

8. bloodraven's unfinished business probably has to do with getting the rightful heirs on the iron throne and help defeat the Others.

9. i think hes good...but u only know what Bran sees.

10. we know Bran frequently visits Jon Snow on the Wall and says things to him through Lord Commander Mormont's raven, i wouldnt be surprised if bloodraven wargs into ravens in all the seven kingdoms to see what people are doing and plotting.

[Sphinx The Riddle]

if you havent read the Dunk & Egg shorts then get to it