331 replies to this topic

[denstorebog]

Alright. I thought this was an above-standard popcorn flick. The set pieces just kept happening, and there was some really good banter between the main characters. I was surprised that Whedon actually managed to make Scarlet Johansson's role into a capable and quite interesting character. The Hulk dilemma was handled well. The guy who plays Loki was plain awesome. Everything that involved him while he was in captivity on board the sky fortress was great and really built suspense. Captain America seemed a bit superfluous, but Hulk shone, and the actor playing Banner is superior to Edward Norton.

I actually found the first half of the movie to be the best, contrary to other opinions I've read. I felt that the scenes that dwelled on characters' pasts and problem-solving added a lot to the movie, and the building of suspense was better than the unraveling of it.

Three of my main problems:

Whedon's trademark wit was definitely on display, but off-balance. Tony Stark's constant barrage of one-liners grew tedious and was quantity over quality. There's a reason it's called ONE-liners. (BTW, try drinking everytime something big or dangerous appears and we cut to a close-up of a helmeted Tony Stark going "uh-oh" or something similar) There wasn't a lot of the dialogue that was able to compete with the best of Firefly. Some, but not much. That was a shame.

Secondly, the tiny bit of subtext there was to the movie was really, really poorly done. Yes, we get the parallel when a bunch of Germans kneel to a power-hungry warlord. We *still* get it when an elderly German stands up and refuses to submit based on past experiences. Aaand we DEFINITELY get it when Captain America swoops in and goes "WOW, THE LAST TIME I WAS IN GERMANY, THERE WAS ANOTHER POWER-MAD GUY JUST LIKE YOU". Blech. Also, the visual 9/11 parallels are tired by now. Whedon is just usually able to do things in a fresher way. The ending TV montage was problematic in the same way - this is the kind of stuff that the first Spiderman movie got away with - wide-eyed hero idolization - but I feel that we should be past that phase when dealing with superheroes in movies today. The denouement was nauseating and cliché.

Finally, I felt the plot promised to be more than it was. There was a lot of suspense and interesting confusion about what was going on, but in the end, it was nothing more than the SAME "get glowing artifact, open portal to other world, call forth army of weird creatures." Again, I don't expect more from a Marvel comic movie, but I expect more from Whedon based on past experiences.

I think the best way to experience the movie is not to think of it as a Whedon movie (at least if you're a fan - in which case, something will feel like it's missing), but as another Marvel movie, in which case you'll be pleasantly surprised. (Wait, why am I saying stuff like this in the post-watching thread?) By doing that, I can give it a solid 5 of 7 stars. I was entertained, but hoping for something extra that wasn't quite there.

Edited by denstorebog, 26 April 2012 - 04:02 PM.

[felice]

Did I miss an explanation of why the first Hulk manifestation went on an unprovoked rampage against the Avengers, while the second followed Captain America's orders and generally worked as part of a team?

[denstorebog]

I wondered about that too...!

Also, did anyone else see the post-credits scene? Who is that obvious sequel baiter and what is his significance in the comics?

[polishgenius]

I thought the banter was, for the most part, ace, though a couple of lines were duff (I have a plan. Attack).


One of my favourite things about it was the way everyone (apart from Tony, of course) was absolutely terrified of Banner. Like, apart from the Hawkeye thing, pretty much the only time Natasha lost her cool was when Bruce pretended to get angry, and whenever anything vaguely tense was going on they were all on edge around him.

Tom Hiddlestone played a great Loki. Much more chaotic and uncontrolled than his first appearance, which was good (though I liked that one too).

The Nazi-parallel scene was ridiculous though. And the action, while well-staged, wasn't as good as it might have been- I agree with TC that the first half was probably the best.

felice, on 26 April 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:

Did I miss an explanation of why the first Hulk manifestation went on an unprovoked rampage against the Avengers, while the second followed Captain America's orders and generally worked as part of a team?

Because in the first smackdown he perceived the Avengers (or Shield) to be threatening him and lying to him whereas in the second he had a pure focus and changed willingly.


The post-credits: that was Thanos. His overall history is complicated and I'm not sure of it entirely, but he's from Titan (the Moon), an Eternal (a powerful race created by the Celestials, one of the Cosmic powers in Marvel) but with a Deviant gene (pretty much Eternal Mutants). So he's a bit mixed up in his head, and (the relevant bit) in love with Death, meaning he's constantly trying to wipe out huge chunks of life in the universe just to impress her/it. His most famous appearance probably involves the Infinity Gauntlet, which was briefly glimpsed in Thor, with which iirc he did actually kill half the universe, though it was later restored.
He's interesting because despite being a genocidal maniac he isn't a one-track mind and it isn't unknown for him to fight on the side of the heroes against other threats.

Edited by polishgenius, 26 April 2012 - 03:57 PM.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

polishgenius, on 26 April 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

The post-credits: that was Thanos. His overall history is complicated and I'm not sure of it entirely, but he's from Titan (the Moon), an Eternal (a powerful race created by the Celestials, one of the Cosmic powers in Marvel) but with a Deviant gene (pretty much Eternal Mutants). So he's a bit mixed up in his head, and (the relevant bit) in love with Death, meaning he's constantly trying to wipe out huge chunks of life in the universe just to impress her/it. His most famous appearance probably involves the Infinity Gauntlet, which was briefly glimpsed in Thor, with which iirc he did actually kill half the universe, though it was later restored.
He's interesting because despite being a genocidal maniac he isn't a one-track mind and it isn't unknown for him to fight on the side of the heroes against other threats.

Think Marvel's version of Darkseid, more or less.

[Galactus]

Manhole Eunuchsbane, on 26 April 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

Think Marvel's version of Darkseid, more or less.

It's IIRC one of those weird cases because Thanos is clearly inspired by Darkseid, modern Darkseid also has quite a bit of Thanos in him.

I should also note that they're very different in personality. (Thanos, for one thing, tends to be darkly funny most of the time)

[polishgenius]

Yeah, while the inspiration is obvious, I think the character went in a very different direction. Darkseid pretty much is evil for evil's sake, whereas Thanos is more of a tragic figure. And from a more practical perspective, Thanos seeks to kill where Darkseid seeks to control.

Oddly, when DC decided to rip Thanos off in turn, they came up with Mongul, who's a lot more like Darkseid than Thanos, rendering him somewhat pointless.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Well yeah, there are subtle differences, but how many meglomaniacal Alien Demi-Gods can you have roaming around seeking to take over the universe?

See also: Lord Papal, Annihilus, Blastaar, ad-infinitum...

[Galactus]

Manhole Eunuchsbane, on 26 April 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Well yeah, there are subtle differences, but how many meglomaniacal Alien Demi-Gods can you have roaming around seeking to take over the universe?

See also: Lord Papal, Annihilus, Blastaar, ad-infinitum...

Thanos *generally* doesen't fill the "conquering overlord" role, for starters, he hasn't really had minions since his first few appearances.

[Bastien]

Loved it. I was just impressed that all of the characters were balanced so well, the action is amazing, there was a lot of great humour (I actually appreciated that Whedon dialled back on the "Whedon"). The story is simple, but it's the opportunity to see these characters on screen together, bouncing off each other, combining and recombining in different combinations, that's the appeal. On that level, and as a spectacle, it's a complete success imo. And they totally nailed Hulk. The couple of humorous action beats he has in the final battle tore the roof off the cinema I was in. Whedon also succeeded at making Black Widow an interesting character, which I wouldn't have predicted. Only complaint I have, which is very minor, is that I feel Cap got short-changed a little and it became Tony's movie in the end. But very small quibble. It'll deserve the squillions it makes at the box office, which is rare to say these day.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Haven't seen it yet, but all this Thanos talk led me to read this little tidbit on his Wiki page...

Thanos appeared in the mid-credit scene of the Avengers film. ^[42] He is revealed to be the one who provided Loki with the Chitauri army. When told by his accomplice (known simply as "The Other") that battling The Avengers would be to court Death, Thanos flashes an evil grin. Thanos does not speak in this appearance.

Spoiler

So, Loki's army is Skrulls after all? The Chitauri was the name given to the Skrulls in The Ultimates...

[Xanrn]

Ha and all the "Its not the Skrulls", sigh I hate it when people pull that shit.

If we get Thanos we better get Drax and thats modern Drax.

[Ouroboros]

Marvel has confirmed plans to make a Guardians of the Galaxy film, the modern incarnation featuring Drax and Star-Lord. Considering the aesthetic they are going for in regards to the extra-terrestrial locations it could be a very interesting looking film.

Loved the Avengers movie overall. Really bummed out they killed Coulson but I saw it coming. Joss Whedon always kills off minor but well liked characters in his films.

[Kaldaur]

Hulk stole the show, as was mentioned above. Loki's "I am a God, what can you ho---oh shit" speech when the Hulk pounds him into the ground was classic, as was his Thor punch in Grand Central Station.

And I'm not surprised it turned into Iron Man 3. He made hundreds of millions at the box office while the other heroes banked considerably less on their individual movies. Whedon gave the audience what they wanted, Tony Stark and lots of him.

[trickster]

I loved the movie. It has some gaping plot holes; the invading force seemed pretty lame. However the cast had great chemistry. The guy who played Loki was great. Ditto for Banner. Did not like Robin from How I met your mother.

I do not think it was Iron Man 3 though; Hulk and the rest of the heroes got plenty of screen time imo.

[Mosi Wanostracht]

Yep - I loved it too.

I guess this how my non-X-Men fan friends feel when I make them watch those films, though.  I don't know much about the Avengers.  The ones I recognised most were Fury and Captain America because of the Wolverine connection.  So I guess I missed a lot of the in-jokes, especially with anything to do with the Black Widow (who was awesome) and the Hawk guy, who I know nothing about, really..

Nevertheless, I loved the chemistry between all the characters.  Nobody was the weak link.  Everyone had their own story, their own motivations, their own identity.  I do love how Whedon makes strong independent individuals into compelling workable teams.  I loved the relationship between Banner and everyone else - so wonderfully done: best Hulk I've ever seen on screen.  I also loved how Captain America was the on-the-ground leader and Tony Stark was the boardroom leader, and how they worked that out.

Loki was ace - what a grin!

Now I have to go and watch it again because I didn't realise there was an extra scene after the credits.

[felice]

trickster, on 27 April 2012 - 04:37 AM, said:

the invading force seemed pretty lame.

I thought they did a pretty good job of showing that the Avengers were getting worn out by continuing assault and would have been overwhelmed by the invaders if the portal hadn't been closed... Of course they didn't get much in the way of characterisation, with an outsider being the primary villain.

[Galactus]

Loved it. Epic. Agreed that Hulk stole the show, apart because he felt *heavy* when he fought.

Great stuff.

[Galactus]

Also, how fucking brilliant was the Thanos teaser?

Other Guy: "To fight earth is to court Death..."
Thanos: *Huge shit-eating grin*

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Galactus, on 27 April 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

Also, how fucking brilliant was the Thanos teaser?

Other Guy: "To fight earth is to court Death..."
Thanos: *Huge shit-eating grin*

And who's Other Guy? The Watcher, maybe? Did he have a Big Ol' Biscuit Head?