54 replies to this topic

[Burning down the House]

Someone needs to refresh my memory but how did Littlefinger arrange the marriage between “Alayne” and Harry the Heir?  What did he promise to get the heir to the Vale betrothed to the bastard of a minor lord?  Did he tell Lady Waynwood(who is responsible for Harry I think) of Alayne’s true identity?  Or was it something else?  I can’t remember.

Thanks for your help.

[Buckwheat]

A freakishly big dowry, most of all.

Also he might have told Lady Waynwood about her identity, but I doubt it. He is far too cautious to spill his secrets like that.

[Blisscraft]

The Waynwoods are old and proud and poor.  Petyr "buys up" Waynwoods' debt, offers a large dowry, and HH is only a ward of the Waynwoods, a cousin, not a son.

[skarm]

Harry might only be a ward of the Waynwoods, but he could command a large influence especially Robert is a sickly child. This marriage might bave made more sense had Robert been robust and healthy, but everyone knows he's frail, and even before his murder Jon Arryn was not likely to father anymore children.

It seems to me there should be something more here, because Harry seems like the most important chess piece in the Vale do to the likely event of Robert Arryn's passing by foul means or natural causes.

[IronSuitor]

Harry's family are only of the knightly class, it's unlikely that many noble families would be willing to give a daughter to him while Robert still lives. Also you're wrong that Petyr is a minor lord. Beyond being Lord Protector, he is one of the wealthiest men in the realm and Lord Paramount of the Riverlands. Even his bastard daughter, who probably comes with one hell of a dowry (and is quite pretty) is a real catch for a guy who, unless Robin dies, is going to spend his life as a regular knight.

Not to mention that to an observer Baelish is obviously hedging his bets on Robin by offering his daughter to the guy who'll take over if his ward dies, which is a nice thing to see, if you're Harry.

[Fire Eater]

Blisscraft, on 26 April 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

The Waynwoods are old and proud and poor.  Petyr "buys up" Waynwoods' debt, offers a large dowry, and HH is only a ward of the Waynwoods, a cousin, not a son.

Plus, LF could say that Alayne is his only child and heir to his fortune, the rich lands of Harrenhal and the title of Lord Paramount of the Trident, so Harry would get the gold, Harrenhal and become the liege lord of the Trident.

[Burning down the House]

IronSuitor, on 26 April 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

Also you're wrong that Petyr is a minor lord. Beyond being Lord Protector, he is one of the wealthiest men in the realm and Lord Paramount of the Riverlands. Even his bastard daughter, who probably comes with one hell of a dowry (and is quite pretty) is a real catch for a guy who, unless Robin dies, is going to spend his life as a regular knight.

Not to mention that to an observer Baelish is obviously hedging his bets on Robin by offering his daughter to the guy who'll take over if his ward dies, which is a nice thing to see, if you're Harry.

Petyr is rich but we don't know how rich though.  His title as top dog in the riverlands is not secure yet.  That is dependent on the Lannisters holding the Iron Throne and how likely is that to happen at this point?

The last part is where you really lose me.  If I'm Harry and I'm the new made Lord of the Vale I would want nothing to do with Littlefinger.  Its clear he has his own agenda  and having him close to me could only lead to trouble.  If I'm Harry I would send Littlefinger as far away as possible as soon as I am made lord. Then ther is the fact that Harry's children would have a bastard mother.  This would lead to all sorts of problems for who follows Harry as lord and finding matches for the other children.
It justs seems unlikely that the Lord of the Vale would have a bastard wife.

[Burning down the House]

Fire Eater, on 26 April 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

Plus, LF could say that Alayne is his only child and heir to his fortune, the rich lands of Harrenhal and the title of Lord Paramount of the Trident, so Harry would get the gold, Harrenhal and become the liege lord of the Trident.

Again will LF hold Harrenhal and be Lord Paramount of the Trident if the Lannisters lose the throne?  Not likely.  Also Harry could not be Lord Paramount of both the Trident and Vale.  You can not be a lord of two places at once let alone the Lord Paramount of two regions.

[Fire Eater]

Burning down the House, on 26 April 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

Again will LF hold Harrenhal and be Lord Paramount of the Trident if the Lannisters lose the throne?  Not likely.  Also Harry could not be Lord Paramount of both the Trident and Vale.  You can not be a lord of two places at once let alone the Lord Paramount of two regions.

Harry isn't the Lord of the Vale yet, Robert is. Do you really think LF told Lady Waynwood his plan to off Robert Arryn?

[Burning down the House]

I don't know what he told her.  That is why I asked the question.  However, having your future overlord marry a bastard for money does not make sense to me.

[David C. Hunter]

Burning down the House, on 26 April 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

Again will LF hold Harrenhal and be Lord Paramount of the Trident if the Lannisters lose the throne?  Not likely.  Also Harry could not be Lord Paramount of both the Trident and Vale.  You can not be a lord of two places at once let alone the Lord Paramount of two regions.

Where is it written that you cant? There is a good chance of someone doing this in the near future of these books

[Burning down the House]

It is mentioned in the So Said Martin section.  I'm too lazy to look it up now.

[Ser Erebus]

Anya Waynwood only agrees to the marriage if Harry agrees to marry Alayne right? What is going to convince the future Lord of the Vale to marry LF's bastard?
The Waynwood debts aren't his. The fact that he has a bastard already speaks of a certain willfullness I think. Yes he's of minor noble birth himself but he is probably distinctly aware of his importance in the Arryn succession, he was Jon Arryn's heir, assumung his mother was dead, until Robert's birth. One boy, known to be of extremely ill health stands between him and the Headship of House Arryn, the Lordship of the Eyrie and Vale and the title of Warden of the East. As such he might expect to marry the daughter of another great lord. Other daughter's of Great Lords have married men not likely to inherit, Mrycella's marriage to Trystane of Dorne for instance. Given Robert's health some of the senior lords of the Vale and the Riverlands would surely be willing to bet against Robert's survival and forge a marriage alliance with Harry. Edric Storm is a bastard and distinctly aware of his own importance, what will motivate Harry to marry Alayne stone?

[kwvapor]

The key is .. it's a big secret that Sweetrobin is a sickly child. That's how LF's plan is working so well.

[the Scorpion Knight]

Burning down the House, on 26 April 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

Again will LF hold Harrenhal and be Lord Paramount of the Trident if the Lannisters lose the throne?  Not likely.  Also Harry could not be Lord Paramount of both the Trident and Vale.  You can not be a lord of two places at once let alone the Lord Paramount of two regions.

very likely that he loses everything . he isn't feared or beloved
casting him down gives you more allies than enemies (the river lands don't care about him and the lords of the vale will cheer)
the reasons are too many to NOT let him live.
he's stuck with the lannisters and doesn't realise it.
( I wouldn't be surprised if the unknowingly chooses the strangler)

Censored Wolf, on 11 May 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

The key is .. it's a big secret that Sweetrobin is a sickly child. That's how LF's plan is working so well.

in germany there is a saying the dead declared live longer (a.k.a. the still live in the dead dog yet)
I wouldn't be surprised if LF uses marillion to drive SR nuts just to have a cover if his machnatio
Thank fully he burned every bridge avaiable.
-why didn't tycho nestoris go to Stannis and not to HIM who arranged everything?
-where did LF GET his much money? or better said where did the money to start his enterprises?
the tyrells KNOW WHAT a tracherous bastard[calling him a snake is an insult to snakes] he is, the northmen and stannis think not highly of him, and Euron would eat him alive and not even belch, and Aegon the're four problems: jonC+'Duck, the GC, Aegon himself AND VARYS

Edited by the Scorpion Knight, 11 May 2012 - 04:56 PM.

[etu]

Possible reasons to say yes

- 'Alayne' is hot
- Littlefinger is offering a lot of money
- You're clever enough to realise Littlefinger is a good ally on paper but not clever enough to realise you want him nowhere near you in practice
- A bird in the hand with Harrenhal's heir is worth two in the bush as the Eyrie's Heir Presumptive
- You're a randy young man and someone's offering you the chance to marry something hot, instead of something plain and warty, and you'll get some advantage out of it

I mean, yeah sure there's reasons against as well. It's not a done deal. But Littlefinger wouldn't be suggesting it if there was no chance.

[jlk7e]

How big a secret can it be that Robert Arryn is sickly?  Everyone's talking about how sickly he is in the first book, before we even meet him.  He's going to be living in the same house as Myranda Royce for the whole winter - she does not seem to be much of a secret-keeper.  Keeping Robin's sickliness a secret does not seem like much of a plan, even if it's secret to anyone at the moment, which seems unlikely.

[the Scorpion Knight]

etu, on 11 May 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

Possible reasons to say yes

- 'Alayne' is hot
- Littlefinger is offering a lot of money
- You're clever enough to realise Littlefinger is a good ally on paper but not clever enough to realise you want him nowhere near you in practice
- A bird in the hand with Harrenhal's heir is worth two in the bush as the Eyrie's Heir Presumptive
- You're a randy young man and someone's offering you the chance to marry something hot, instead of something plain and warty, and you'll get some advantage out of it

I mean, yeah sure there's reasons against as well. It's not a done deal. But Littlefinger wouldn't be suggesting it if there was no chance.

Harry might think screw marriage I'LL keep her as my mistress
Alayne Stone doesn't have any inheritenceright -she wasn't legimimatzed (funny part sansa has a claim to harrenhall through her grandmother maternalsides)
LF is offering the money lady waynwood not harry (and she insisted on harry choosing the bride)
If I want LF awqaay I'd decline his marriage offer

[kwvapor]

What's the point of Sansa forcing SR to drink more of the sweetmilk (tainted with poison that reduces his outbursts) if they are not suppose to hide SR's sickness.  I think the people from the castle know of his sickness but not Harry the Heir.  If they did know, they certainly would think twice to marrying Alayne Stone.

[Artos Stark]

This seems like a match made in heaven to me.  Once Harry actually realizes who she is, he is going to be more than happy to marry Sansa.  Harry on the other hand is everything Sansa ever wanted.  A gallant up and coming knight who is also the heir to a major house in the seven kingdoms.  She would make a great Lady of the Vale and give tons of little Arryn/Stark children.