401 replies to this topic

[two_by_two]

Ninefingers, on 14 May 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

I considered this too, but at the end of book two he clearly wants into the box. Unless Rothfuss is taking this in a REALLY odd direction, I don't think he's trying to get another look at the corpse.

Maybe not a look. *wink wink nudge nudge know what I mean know what I mean*

[Triskele]

I just finished this, and I have not read any of these threads yet, nor have I read any of the Name of the Wind threads.  I'm going to get started on that.  

My first thoughts are that Rothfuss is an amazing storyteller.  I'm just not quite sure yet if the story itself is amazing or just pretty good.

I'm also very surprised at how far we've not come after a 1,000 page book 2.  I suspect I'll see that others have said this.

I cannot fathom how this can be wrapped up in just one more book.

I'm off to read threads now.  Definitely intrigued by this.

PS

When Kvothe jumped off of the building only to have Elodin tell him it was one of the dumbest things he'd ever seen...so funny.

ETA:  Merciful Tehlu...I've read the threads a bit...there is so much to ponder here, and this author is obviously not in the lazy camp.  Crap.  I think I need to take a break from this genre and just wait for the next book in this series, Bakker's, and Martin's.

The Maer reminds me of Stannis a bit.

Edited by Triskele, 16 May 2012 - 10:21 AM.

[jumbles]

I just noticed that Kvothe's lute case (WMFc6) has a similarity with his thrice-locked chest.

Quote

Only one of the original clasps remained, a delicate thing of worked silver. I'd replaced the others with whatever I could scavenge, so now the case sported mismatched clasps of bright brass and dull iron.

Brass has copper in it. His thrice-locked chest has locks of copper and iron. Maybe the third lock has to do with silver?

[Triskele]

Wow - Taking a look at Jumbles' amazing list...

There are so many of these possibilities that I had not even considered.  This is way more Book of the New Sun than I'd realized.

Bredon as Ash is one of the few that I had thought of, but that's about it.

These books will probably be really fun on a reread one day.

[Ninefingers]

Triskele, on 15 May 2012 - 11:13 PM, said:

I'm also very surprised at how far we've not come after a 1,000 page book 2.  I suspect I'll see that others have said this.

I cannot fathom how this can be wrapped up in just one more book.

There are things that drag on far longer than I'd like (Example - How many dates with Denna are we going to have to hear about? They're all the same.)

However, Rothfuss has shown the ability to hit the gas pedal when he needs to. When he talks about events at the university, he writes with brisk efficiency. Id guess that most of the foreshadowed events(killing a king, princess ariel, starting a war) will take place during one of the two or three remaining story arcs. (The hunt for the Amyr, the lockless door, etc)

[Nisheeth]

I was wondering about one thing, and haven't been able to find an answer.
How would Denna react if she found out that Kvothe had died?
We know too little of her to know make a guess, but if she is alive what state could she be in? More so, would Kvothe tell her about the fact that his death is a farce(assuming, she herself didn't have a part in leading him to having to fake his death)?

[Triskele]

Stupid question of the day:

Has Rothfuss said whether it's still only supposed to be three books?  Kvothe's story, that is?

I'm sure this has been discussed in some earlier thread, but I haven't had the chance to look through them all.

[AverageGuy]

Triskele, on 17 May 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

Stupid question of the day:

Has Rothfuss said whether it's still only supposed to be three books?  Kvothe's story, that is?

I'm sure this has been discussed in some earlier thread, but I haven't had the chance to look through them all.

Afaik, book three is still supposed to take us up to present-day Kvothe.  Rothfuss has plans for more books, but he isn't saying whether they involve Kvothe.

[Ninefingers]

Nisheeth, on 17 May 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

I was wondering about one thing, and haven't been able to find an answer. How would Denna react if she found out that Kvothe had died? We know too little of her to know make a guess, but if she is alive what state could she be in? More so, would Kvothe tell her about the fact that his death is a farce(assuming, she herself didn't have a part in leading him to having to fake his death)?

I have to believe that she'd take it pretty hard. The evil tree thingy said that she thinks of Kvothe when Ash beats her, so I think it's clear that she has strong feelings for Kvothe.

[Red Wedding]

Wow, so take a look at this! Rothfuss has answered questions!

Let's quote a bit:

Quote

In Austin, you said there were six kinds of magic of which we’d seen five. What are they? If the sixth is a spoiler, what are the five we’ve seen?

Depending on how you look at things, there are a lot of different ways you could group, and therefore count, the different magics in the books.

For example. Sympathy and Sygaldry are both very similar, as they both deal almost exclusively with the manipulation of tangible force in all its varied forms.

Which means, of course, depending on how you count them, (or on how I was counting them that particular day in Austin) there could be more that six types of magic.

Still, here are the names of the five I’ve exposed you to in the book so far.

Alchemy.
Sympathy.
Naming.
Sygaldry.
Glamourie.

You’ve seen glimpses of one other, but you don’t have a name for it yet.

Are all the different types of magic (e.g., naming/shaping, sympathy/sygaldry, alchemy, glamourie, gramerie, etc.) fundamentally different, or are they actually different sides of the same six-sided die?

Whoops. Did I mention grammarie in the book by name.

[Pat goes to look.]

Huh. I guess I did, twice. That was probably later in the revision process.

So yeah, I guess that’s six magics I’ve shown in the books.

(Whoops. Seven. I just remembered one more that gets a whisper of a mention. And there’s an eighth you haven’t seen yet.)

To answer your question though, some types of magic are very much the same (as I mentioned above.) While others are very, very different.

Whether all types of magic somehow follow the same underlying principles is a matter of some discussion at the University. But nobody has discovered the Grand Unified Theory of magic, if that’s what you’re asking.

People have tried, of course. But mostly that’s the sort of thing that students talk about late at night when they get drunk. It’s also the sort of thing that rhetoricians and philosophers discuss. But those aren’t the sort of people Kvothe hangs out with.

ETA:

EIGHT different kinds of magic! Seven have been already mentioned in the books. I'd guess:

1.Naming.
2.Sympathy.
3.Sygaldry.
4.Grammarie.
5.Glamourie.

6. Knots?
7. Music?

ETA 2:

Shoot, I forgot Alchemy! So one is wrong then?



ETA 3:

Spoiler book 3:

Quote

Can you tell us about any locations we haven’t seen yet which we’ll be visiting on D3?
I suppose it doesn’t hurt to say that Kvothe will be visiting Renere, the three part city.

Renere! King!

Quote

How does Lorren know about Arliden?
Arliden had a productive career as a songwriter, not to mention that he had a fairly high profile gig as the lead trouper in Greyfallow’s Men.
As such, we wrote a lot of songs, many of which were recorded and attributed to him. But there are a lot of songs in the archives that have been collected and aren’t attributed to anyone. Lorren was going to ask Kvothe for his assistance catalouging these before Kvothe had his hissy-fit at the end of Chapter 36.
There. That’s a little secret nobody knew before. See? I’m not total a-hole about keeping things to myself.

Edited by Red Wedding, 17 May 2012 - 04:36 PM.

[jumbles]

Thanks for sharing this Red Wedding!

Some other parts I found interesting:

Quote

What is the difference between shaping and naming?

That is a very good question. A very, very good question. You have no idea how good a question that is.

Whoever asked this, you’re going to really enjoy parts of book three….

Quote

What happened to Sovoy?

He lives on a farm out in the country now. He’s happy there. He has pleny of room to run and play.

Quote

Why was Caluptena burned?

Those guys were total dicks. They had it coming.

Quote

Do the names Edema Ruh and Adem relate to the Hebrew “adamah” meaning “red” and “earth”?

“Believe me not; and yet I lie not; I confess nothing, yet I deny nothing.”

Quote

After you’ve finished the third book, what areas of this world are you interested in exploring?

I don’t see why I have to wait. I’m writing a few shorter pieces right now that explore some pieces of the world. Modeg, most notably.

Quote

Are you planning more books in this world?

Yup.

Quote

What were the Mender heresies (mentioned by Lorren near the end of WMF)? Are they related to ”Menda“ who is ”Tehlu, son of “? Is Trapis a disciple of a schism variant of Tehlinism? Is there any relationship between Menda, the Mender heresies and the ”menders" we see in the story, Tinkers?

It was night again. I was answering a question, and it was a question of four parts.

Let’s break it up.

1. It was a religious schism in the Tehlin church. Kinda like Arian Christianity back in the day.

2. Very nice. Good catch.

3. Yeah. I don’t know how the hell you figured that out, but yeah. He totally is. Bonus points to you.

4. Hmmmm…..

[thistlepong]

Mostly doing this so I can add it to the front of the thread.

2012-05-17 Admissions Interview

Part I at Pat's Blog
Part II at Tor.com's Rothfuss Reread

The magics are: (Word of God)

• Alchemy.
  
• Sympathy.
  
• Naming.
  
• Sygaldry.
  
• Glamourie.
  
• Grammarie.
  
• I just remembered one more that gets a whisper of a mention.
  
• And there’s an eighth you haven’t seen yet.

***EDIT: source

I just re-counted, so far there’s been:
Six magics named in the books.
Eight magics mentioned in the books.
And at least 10 magics in the world.
That I can think of right now, depending on how you count them.

So knots and knacks are probably legitimate magics.  There might be one we never sifted out.  And there's definitely one we haven't seen.  Or he's fucking with us ***

His answer about the difference between naming and shaping only reinforces my existing prejudices.  In other words, I still think it's only a matter of what one does with names.

One of the forthcoming short pieces is supposed to be the Laniel Young-Again story.

Nisheeth, on 17 May 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

How would Denna react if she found out that Kvothe had died?
We know too little of her to know make a guess, but if she is alive what state could she be in? More so, would Kvothe tell her about the fact that his death is a farce(assuming, she herself didn't have a part in leading him to having to fake his death)?

This is a good question that's hard to answer.  I was pretty sure Denna loved Kvothe for some value of love up until their fight over her song and not so sure when she turned up in the Commonwealth again.  I assume she'd be sad and get over it.  Hell, maybe she wrote a song about him.  That would be great.

Triskele, on 17 May 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

Has Rothfuss said whether it's still only supposed to be three books?  Kvothe's story, that is?

From Part II of the interview (repeating what he's said since the release of WMF):

Given that they seem to be giving you A Lot Of Pages per book, how worried should we be about book-creep, in the sense where George R.R. Martin wound up writing an entire extra book between the books he’d already planned? That is, do you think this is going to fit into three, or is there a possibility of overspill?

Three books.

I was thankful that he confirmed Cealds were black.  Lot of weird resistance to that in multiple forums that can just STFU now.

Edited by thistlepong, 17 May 2012 - 09:36 PM.

[jumbles]

I just googled "Amary" and "Amyr" and saw that they had some interesting meanings.

Amary means "the integrity of God" in Hebrew.
Amyr means "a ruler" in Arabic and also means "treetop" in Hebrew.

[Triskele]

thistlepong, on 17 May 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

  I was thankful that he confirmed Cealds were black. Lot of weird resistance to that in multiple forums that can just STFU now.

I have no problem with this at all, and thought it would have been hilarious if not so sad when all these douches were pissed that characters they pictured as white turned out to be black in Hunger Games...

But can someone remind me of the textual evidence?  It didn't stand out to me on my first read (though I'm not a very critical reader on my first reading of things).

Also - I don't remember what Grammarie would be.  Any help?

ETA:  I loved how Wilem was so good at his second language but would occasionally misuse a particular word...it was a great example of how language-learning really works.

Edited by Triskele, 17 May 2012 - 09:20 PM.

[thistlepong]

Triskele, on 17 May 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

I have no problem with this at all, and thought it would have been hilarious if not so sad when all these douches were pissed that characters they pictured as white turned out to be black in Hunger Games...

But can someone remind me of the textual evidence?  It didn't stand out to me on my first read (though I'm not a very critical reader on my first reading of things).

Forgive the lack of detail (I can never find original posts), but it comes through in several descriptions of Wil and Kilvin, maybe even Roent and Viari.  Here's an example:

“And the work itself?” Kilvin prompted. There was sweat beading on the dark skin of his forehead, but he didn’t seem otherwise bothered by the heat.

And there's a drawing by his collaborator Nathan Taylor.  Kilvin's in the lower right.

It doesn't stand out.  I think Pat was probably trying to describe deep skin tone without resorting to traditional means in an effort to show that it wasn't a big deal.  On the other hand, Cealds get saddled with the only racial epithet.  You win some, you lose some.

Quote

Also - I don't remember what Grammarie would be.  Any help?

Felurian calls what she's doing when she makes the shaed Grammarie, the art of making things be.  Bast, who isn't apparently skilled, uses what grammarie he has to extend the vitality of the holly crown he gives to Chronicler.

[Triskele]

thistlepong, on 17 May 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

Felurian calls what she's doing when she makes the shaed Grammarie, the art of making things be. Bast, who isn't apparently skilled, uses what grammarie he has to extend the vitality of the holly crown he gives to Chronicler.

Thanks for that info.

Bast needs to eat his beets.

[thistlepong]

Magic update:


The first six magics are Word of God.

• Alchemy.
  
• Sympathy.
  
• Naming.
  
• Sygaldry.
  
• Glamourie.
  
• Grammarie.
  
• (Knacks)
  
• (Yllish braiding/knotwork - exemplified by Denna and the Loeclos Box)
  
• I just remembered one more that gets a whisper of a mention.  The singers of the Tahl.
  
• And there’s an eighth you haven’t seen yet.  Something to look forward to.

[jumbles]

Hmm, knacks do seem like a magic, but Pat said that only six have been named and then listed them. So I don't see how knacks could fit in unless (1) he was mistaken, (2) they are a subset of another type of magic, (3) "knacks" is not the proper name for it.

Edit: He did up the count by two when people were discussing knacks and Yllish knots, so it seems likely he was trying to make room for them.

Edit Again: And what about the Cthaeh's ability (and tinkers' seeming ability) to tell the future? We know that Pat doesn't consider that to be Naming since he said that he doesn't think that time has a Name.

Edited by jumbles, 18 May 2012 - 06:04 AM.

[thistlepong]

For the moment, I'm can't even feel certain that 10 is the last word, particularly with his, "depending on how you count them," caveat.  He didn't remember Grammarie was named at first.  Since there's only one mention of knacks as magic early in NotW, I'm willing to believe it slipped his mind as well.  It did look like he made room for knacks and braids.

Given what I think the Cthaeh is, I view what it does as naming.  But I suppose the whole Selitos thing isn't necessary.  Your name on a large enough scale of understanding would include all you've done and all you'll do, or more precisely what you'll do as a result of what it says to you.

Time having a name would mean time could potentially be destroyed.  That's pretty heavy.  Or it opens the world to time travel, which is sort of ruinous to what he's built so far.  Don't get me wrong, I love paradox fiction and sometimes it's even done well, but this world with it's history of large actors and ancient wars loses a lot of it's magic if an individual can saunter backwards and forwards in service of an agenda.  The least destructive result would be something like Ambrose Chase from Planetary, where someone can manipulate time in ways we've observed, speeding it up or slowing it down locally.  Kind of makes other names superfluous in a fight.  /frink

Still, I imagine giving us 10 won't bring us a consensus any more than 6 did.

[lanceschaubert]

Still reading, still here in the shadows.

Stopped with the alchemy reread because, honestly, I had better things to do and no way to know if something or anything was intended with alchemical symbolism. Rowling was way easier as was Umberto Echo and Cinderella and even Dickens. No clue what Rothfuss intends or how much of his intentions matter where alchemy is concerned.

But I still think whatever alchemy exists points to some significant deaths in book three. Anyone still curious about the alchemical stuff?