Nisheeth, on 28 April 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:
Okay, here's something odd. In NOTW, the people that came to the Waystone Inn at night surprised Kvote in the middle of his story (when he was about to tell that he found the way into in the Archives from the Underthing). Yet, in WMF, he is able to stop the story before anyone was able to reah the door giving everyone time enough to compose themselves. What happened in the intervening day that allowed him to know if someone was coming to the inn? ETA: I had another thought after reading this line: Kvothe regarding Shep. I was thinking that maybe his inability to use Sympathy was maybe due to his lack of courage. If a person suffers a trauma while they were doing something, they would feel hesitation and fear at doing the same thing (like if a person barely survives after nearly drowning, they might become afraid of swimming). Maybe something like this happened to Kvothe preventing him from performing Sympathy? ETA 2: Doesn't Dal's description of names sound too familiar to the shaper's description?
Kv0th3, on 29 April 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:
None of them say no, so its not really rape, they all chase after her... And she doesnt know it will kill them (since it doesnt always kill them), there is a story about a young man going with her, and returning years later an old man. That would imply that he spent almost a lifetime with her...
I like the idea of some sort of PTSD trigger response involve sympathy. Maybe Kvothe was just paying more attention on the second day? Or, more realistically,
glaring continuity error.
bradd, on 29 April 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:
Came up with a random question last night which is pretty obvious, I'm surprised I haven't seen it asked before... which means it probably has been and I just haven't seen it
If the Chandrian kill everyone who tells stories about them, why is Skarpi still alive? And we know he is because he's mentioned in the frame story...
thistlepong, on 29 April 2012 - 11:06 PM, said:
No one under the influence of flunitrazepam says no either. Is a magical version any different? Similarly, it's not okay just because Fae have blue and orange morals. Kvothe, in fact, is pretty black and white on this. He's shown to be noble given the opportunity with Denna, and resistant even in the throes of plum bob with Fela. So, he just thinks it rocks to bang the sex fairy and since he got to she's alright, even pitiable.
It's part of a broader theme. It would have been impossible for Arliden to gather stories about them or for any to exist in the Archives if they had a 100% clearance rate. However, so far as we've seen they always leave someone alive to tell the tale. Kvothe. Nina (or Nina and Denna.) Still, it might be a clue. "Lanre is one of the Chandrian," might not be the big secret Arliden died for. On the other hand, if it is, they're already coming for Kvothe. Damn, bradd, that's ticklish. Thanks.
Skarpi is still alive because he's Aleph. The Chandrian always leave someone alive because... they want word to get out? They want to be the boogeyman, because stories are more powerful than the thing itself. Actually, the more I think about this, the more I like the idea. You leave one person alive, one child. The child remembers a vast shadow, intense terror and dread, death, pain, and the Chandrian are associated with it. That child grows up and tells stories. He doesn't remember the details, only the fear. And that fear spreads until it doesn't matter how powerful the Chandrian are. Merely the mention of their name is enough to cause old men to blanche and spill beer on the ground. They don't even have to do all that much, just stop the truth from getting out. Just make sure the story they created is stronger than the whispered stories people dare not tell in public.
As for the Felurian part... hmm. It's tricky. Okay. Here's my thought. One can't judge the actions of someone from another culture if their culture is responsible for their actions. So, like, I (as a white American living in the 21st century)
cannot judge the practice of arranged marriages between thirteen-year-old girls and sixty-year-old men in medieval England to be morally reprehensible, even if I find it bizarre and disturbing. I can't say the sixty-year-old man was wrong to marry her, I can't say the parents were wrong for arranging the marriage. So I probably shouldn't judge Felurian for doing what she does. On the other hand, it is true that she is forcing men to have sex with her. Even if they "want to," they're still being forced to. I don't know if there is any way to resolve this dilemma to anyone's satisfaction, to be honest. It doesn't feel right to condemn Felurian when she's merely acting on her nature. Perhaps it would be best to say that she is an incurable nymphomaniac, and it's not her fault she can exert this influence.
Ninefingers, on 30 April 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:
I should have been more clear on Ambrose - I would expect him to use an intermediary, much like he did when blackballing Kvothe out of the inns in Imre. I don't think he would directly act.
I think if Ambrose knew about Kvothe and Denna, he would have made Denna's life utterly hell, even through an intermediate. We saw what he could do to Kvothe. Denna, as a woman without anyone looking after her, is vastly more vulnerable. Admittedly, Denna can run away - but Ambrose's arm is long, and I doubt he would hesitate to lock her up (or have her locked up, or beaten, or tortured, or raped, or killed, or all of them in varying orders). We have to remember that Ambrose can do pretty much anything, especially to a drifter woman. He's capable, and he's willing to go that far. But he doesn't, which means he has no reason to, which means he doesn't know about her and Kvothe.
Ninefingers, on 30 April 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:
1) Didn't the Citeth say she thinks she deserves it? (Or am I making that up?) 2) I have no idea (I need to reread this section.) 3) He beats women. I agree with you that the secret having been kept so long adds to its importance, but I'm not sure that it follows that it's someone we already know. It could just be a rich/powerful/important person, and the reason it is important is because of what Kvothe does when he meets him. (If he's the prince of bla-bla-bla and Kvothe kills him, the importance "requirement" is satisfied)
I think there is a quote about the Loeclos box that goes something like, "It may not have been important to begin with, but age and secrecy have made it so." So for what that's worth.
stumpzapper, on 30 April 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:
My first instinct for a culprit would be Elodin, since he above all other people would know of the danger involved and isn't above sabotaging the other masters (for example setting Hemm's rooms on fire). But by the end of WMF he's pretty chummy with Kvothe and if there were a genuine danger I would imagine he'd try to mentor Kvothe rather than undermine him. Maybe Lorren? The Cthaeh does mention that some of the masters at the university would be able to help Kvothe with his search for the Chandrian but won't. This implies that some of them at least have deeper knowledge of ancient lore, and therefore probably uses of Yllish knots, than your average scholar. just some food for thought.
I sincerely doubt it's Elodin. He only sets fire to Hemme's rooms because Hemme is quite frankly an ass, and Elodin hates him. I don't believe we're given any reason to suspect that Elodin hates the Chancellor. Also poison doesn't feel like Elodin's style. He's not that cautious, I don't think - or that nonchalant with other peoples' lives.
aimlessgun, I'm not going to address the points you bring up. Just know that they are valid to various degrees, and we are on this forum because we don't care. Or rather, we care about the flaws of this book, but only because we love it and think it is worth discussing anyways. So when you post your hate here, you're angering an entire community of people who have already thought through your rant and decided it doesn't matter. Really this applies to anyone who posts hate anywhere. Don't post it in fan communities, please. It's not necessary, it's not constructive, and it won't change anyone's mind.
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