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[book spoiler] Whores' scene and hatred for Joffrey = storyline shortened?


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#1 Roxane De

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 04:18 PM

Hello,

As most of you, I've been quite chocked by Joffrey's last deeds in the 14th episode. The directors decided to wake as much hate as possible against him in this episode, and for a lot of people, the whores' scene was "too much".
Why did they add this scene anyway? It is quite long, taking in account that we are almost at the middle of the season and much of the story from the book is yet to happen.
My theory is, may it be that the directors want to kill off Joffrey sooner than expected (if we follow the books)?
I mean, on audience purposes, they should get rid of him as soon as possible since TV show viewers may be more likely to quit watching when the show is less pleasant (we can see that a lot of viewers didn't watch the last GoT episodes because of Ned's death, whereas I don't think a lot of readers just stopped there and threw the books through the window, it is all about "effort justification", you won't stop reading a book that you purchased and spent time reading, whereas not following a tv-show anymore is easier as it is less committing).
I mean, Renly is going to die in the next episode, Baelish is getting more and more pissed off by the current government, The Queen Of Thorns has been cut off the story, so I can see Margaery being betrothed to Joffrey very soon, sparing us the quite long story of Sansa which is probably not worth showing on the tv-show (don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about my point of view, but I'm trying to adopt a commercial logic).
Let's face it, a Red Wedding happening before the death of Joffrey may well disappoint a great deal of viewers already, and thus putting the future of the tv show at stake. Plus, I've read somewhere that the actor portraying Joffrey got a university Grant and wants to leave the show ASAP. Also, the fact that the 3d book is too long to be put in one single season may well have influenced them into catching up as much as possible during the 2d season.
Do you think it's likely to happen? A lot of the events from the books are going to be changed, but honestly, I don't think they can go on with such an irritating Joffrey much longer and they cannot put everything that happens in the book anyway so they will have to sort out what is worth showing and what is not.

#2 RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:53 AM

I don't know where you read that about Jack Gleeson but I think he wouldn't want to leave the show that's making him into a star. Not to mention that the filming happens mainly in the summer which (according to interviews) is how Maisie Williams & Sophie Turner juggle it.

I think they realised after the first season they had a guy cast that could portray dispicable and really make an audience angry and want to milk it rather than rely on the few scenes Joff gets in the book.

The appeal to this show (& the books) is its not like other things out there so to claim D&D want to turn it into one of those shows is unfair, they chose to do it because its different and the ability to make an audience angry and sad is as important as to make them cheer. There is NO way the purple wedding will come before the red.

Edited by RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon, 27 April 2012 - 07:54 AM.


#3 legba11

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 09:36 AM

I don't disagree that having the Purple Wedding happen in 2.10 would be a sound tactical decision. The end of book 2 lacks the big punch of all the other books (including the weak FfC). However, 2.9 is the battle of Blackwater, which pretty much eliminates any chance of this happening. They would need to (all in 2.10), reveal the Tyrell's defection (sort of), introduce the new marriage arrangement, have Tywin take over being Hand, have Margery/Thorns realize what a turd Joffery is, set up Sansa to kill him (well assist), set up Sansa's escape (we haven't seen Dontos since the first scene of the season), have Tyrion take the fall for it and be arrested. Too much important stuff to rush. Especially with Book 3 being given 20 episodes, and some material from Book 3 already being moved to Season 2 (Jaime's release).

#4 Tadco26

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 09:44 AM

Joffrey dieing after the Red Wedding is part of what makes the audience get over the Red Wedding. If they were to move it up substantially the story would begin to only very loosely resemble the books considering how many other changes that would lead to in other character's story lines.

#5 Brienne the Beauty

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 11:02 AM

How would you know Olenna Tyrell has been cut? She wasn't even in book 2, which this series is based on.

#6 Roxane De

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 03:18 PM

Link concerning Jack Gleeson : http://www.independe...ng-3082256.html
According to the date of publication, they couldn't have killed him off in the second season already, but I still think that somehow, they might change the chronology for the next season.
legba11: are you sure the 3d season is going to be 20 episode long? I don't think they confirmed anything about that yet.
Concerning Olenna, I didn't realize she wasn't in the 2d book anyway, but I think that the decision of having an older Margeary was part related to the fact that there will not be any Queen of Thorns.
I think they changed a lot of things in this season comparing to the book so the 3d season may be very different from ASOS anyway.

#7 Sword of the Morning Wood

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 03:26 PM

Season three will be based on the first half of SoS. An older Margeary doesn't necessarily mean Olenna will be cut in the same way an older Robb didn't mean Ned will be cut or and older Joffrey doesn't mean Cersei will be cut. They're making most of the younger characters a few years older. This makes sense and GRRM has admitted that he should have made most of the younger characters older in the books.

Plus, she gets her tits out so...

#8 _Oberyn_

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 04:11 PM

Makes no sense that they will cut Olenna since Margeary can not plot with herself, if anything Margeary/Olenna will get scenes that are not even in the book to make the subtle scheming more obvious for the non-readers.

#9 legba11

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 04:51 PM

We have confirmation the next tv season will be about half of book 3, so the projection to 20 episodes for the whole book... Could be wrong... It's possible they will be taking the mess of book 4 and just splitting it into season 3b and season 5.

#10 The Red Lamb Chop

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 06:30 PM

My opinion is that the Red and Purple Wedding will be done meshed together at the same time at the end of the third season (probably episode 29). It honestly will make it easier for the audience stomach watching Robb and Cat get murdered if it is paralleled with Joffrey dying as well.

Also, it's worth pointing out that in an interview a couple of weeks ago, David Cogman (the writer of episode 13) said that, in Season 3, the episode he is writing "has a pair of iconic book moments that [he] was thrilled to adapt." Now, I know it's sort of jumping the gun but since this thread seems to be about making huge presumptions from very small details, I think he will be writing this episode and the pair of moments are both the weddings. Of course, there's just as much grounding in this as any other claim made thusfar in this thread.

Interview (for y'all's pleasure): http://www.westeros....th_Bryan_Cogman

#11 _Oberyn_

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 06:50 PM

Martin is writing Episode 7 of S3 so thats the most likely episode for RW

#12 The Monkey

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 08:17 PM

Martin is writing Episode 7 of S3 so thats the most likely episode for RW

That episode is called "Autumn Winds". It could refer to Balon's death, or Jon and Bran's close encounter at Queenscrown (which occurred during a storm), or both, but I doubt it's to do with the RW.

#13 Frost_Nocturne

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 08:45 PM

That episode is called "Autumn Winds". It could refer to Balon's death, or Jon and Bran's close encounter at Queenscrown (which occurred during a storm), or both, but I doubt it's to do with the RW.


Queenscrown was my first thought on hearing the title of Martin's episode as well. Also remember that the lead-up to the RW is full of rainstorms as well.

I think the RW will be either ep. 8 or 9, with the Purple Wedding being the relatively uplifting season 3 finale. I would be shocked if both events happen during a single episode. Joffrey's smugness about the RW when the readers have it fresh in their minds makes his demise all the more satisfying. Also, the RW is too iconic not to be an episode ender, same with the Purple Wedding. Those are probably the two most iconic events of SoS so having them an episode or two apart makes sense.

Also, there is no way Joffrey is dying this season. They really should kill him by the end of S3 though, or viewers will start to get depressed.

Edited by Frost_Nocturne, 27 April 2012 - 08:45 PM.


#14 Ser Chuck

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 03:05 AM

So far the pattern is that GRRM get's the bloodiest episodes and I'd be disappointed if they were to change that. They gave him the slaughter of the entire Stark household last year and the single bloodiest battle since The Trident this season (also the first major battle we actually get to see!). If I'm picking a moment from book 3 for George to script, it has to be the Red Wedding. I'd also want his input on what "The Rains of Castamere" ought to sound like.

#15 Maester Murks

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 05:20 PM

Link concerning Jack Gleeson : http://www.independe...ng-3082256.html

He doesn't want to do any professional acting after Game of Thrones? Well , of course I respect his decision to focus on his academic career, but... damn, what a waste of talent (although he apparently has even more talents than acting...)

#16 atia-

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 05:29 PM

Oh, he'll change his mind if someone shoves enough money in his face (hopefully). He is definitely something special.

#17 dreamcatcher

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 10:56 PM

I also thought of that. It's consistent with the directors claiming that someone dies that doesn't die until book 3. But they'd need to change the plot significantly and I just don't like that.

#18 Jamie Lannister

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 05:43 AM

It's probably just excess evil to supplement Ramsay being cut.

I wouldn't be surprised if Joffrey rides up to Winterfell in episode ten, demands Theon "eat these kittens if you're so bad," and then burns the place down with his crimson eye beams.

#19 Thunderfist

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 08:18 AM

It's probably just excess evil to supplement Ramsay being cut.

I wouldn't be surprised if Joffrey rides up to Winterfell in episode ten, demands Theon "eat these kittens if you're so bad," and then burns the place down with his crimson eye beams.


lol

#20 Roxane De

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 03:16 PM

Well I may have been very influenced by my own desire of killing off Joffrey as soon as possible and that's why I see him dying in the second season already. I also fear that the show is going to stop half way through because TV viewers are not patient at all, so if they indeed split the third book into two seasons and make the Red or the Purple Wedding happen in the theoretical 4th season, we might just never see it.
Personaly I'm really confident with what they are doing with the show, if they are changing a lot of things while adapting from the book, it's for the better since it increases the world of ASOIAF and anyway, people can still read the book if they want to know the accurate story.