Apple Martini, on 30 April 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:
OK, I just had my mind blown all over again.
This is from the Tower of the Hand essay about R+L=J. I was rereading it again (Dragonfish linked to it in another thread).
So for ... some reason ... I always thought that, when Jon dreams about going down into the crypts in Game of Thrones, the stone kings were the ones telling him that he wasn't a Stark. But no.
The stone kings aren't telling Jon he isn't a Stark. He's telling himself that he isn't, but he still has to go down there. It is his place, because he is a Stark, even he's Lyanna's Stark and not Ned's.
Perhaps it's the abstract idea that he doesn't consider himself a Stark the way Robb and the other children are- he's an outsider because he's a bastard.
Martin may be applying another double entendre' because he isn't the Stark he wants to be.
He's another mans son, though he has Neds blood by way of his Mother.
Awesome Oberyn Martell, on 30 April 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:
I'm not certain she was willing to go into a polygamous marriage with Rhaegar. However I'd stake my life on her not being in love with Robert, and as half the women in Westeros (and probably some of the boys, Jon Connington) seem to adore Rhaegar I'd say it's well within the realms of possibility for Lyanna to go willingly though it is a lot more uncertain than R+L=J
I'd say the odds are yes, she did love Rhaegar, but loving Rhaegar doesn't necessarily translate into her acting on it, compromising not only her honor, but her familys, especially when it would seem that honor is an important factor to her, at least from the few clues we've been given about her.
It's also been my experience that it's when you don't
care for someone that you don't care what they do, so, I think it's possible her reaction to Roberts infidelity could be read as one of disappointment and disgruntlement, because she actually does care for Robert.
Again, if she didn't care on some level, she might even be relieved, because if Roberts gone all the time, or with other women, he's not going to care what she's doing.
And, she's been raised in a house full of men, so she shouldn't be all that surprised, because even Cat was stoic about those behaviors, which leads to my skepticism at the arguement that she'd then be okay with Rhaegars infidelity.
The only difference is that Rhaegar apparently made no claims to love Elia, while Robert did claim to love her, so at the worst, Robert is a hypocrite.
If we're to take Arya as a "template," then it's possible that Lyanna had the same views as Arya, and saw marriage and being a great Lady, or a Princess as something that other girls dreamed of, but not her.
And, unlike everyone else in the Kingdom, Lyanna may have actually been the only
one who didn't fall all over Rhaegar.
Edited by Alia of the knife, 30 April 2012 - 09:54 PM.