43 replies to this topic

[forEvermore]

As stated ad naseum by the circle I watch this show with, there are an awful lot of whores in the show.  The problem isn't that this results in too much sex and nudity, (sex and nudity is great), it is that there is a growing disconnect between some of the more complicated characters and much of the sex.

We were deprived of a sex scene between Eddard and Catelyn, which could of given both characters much more humanity.  (Maybe Sean Bean doesn't do nudity? =( )

Tyrion, despite his appearence in sex scenes, has not displayed much nudity!  I can understand, because Dinklage is probally far better looking naked than Tyrion should be, but it is still dissapointing.

What really put me over the edge was S02E04, where the throneroom scene with Joffrey and Sansa was partially replaced with whore-beating scene.  I can understand the motives behind this choice, but I feel like the story of Sansa is being relegated to a smaller role by the push for more titillating scenes.  There are two main reasons for sex and nudity being in a show like this.  Obviously, it gives the characters more depth and complexity.  More importantly, however, it should make the audience uncomfortable.  The viewer will never truly become invested in a show if they are comfortable.  Whores and prostitutes at work works fine as a scene but it wont continue to work indefinately.  Ros beating the other whore was admittedly still uncomfortable, but it did not provoke emotion in the way the beating of Sansa did in the book.  With some crafty camera work, the scene in the throneroom with Joffrey and Sansa could of set the tone for the rest of the season without any explicit nudity.

I know that the show can produce good sex scenes, as evidenced by the season 1+2 scenes with Theon Greyjoy+Ros/'Saltwife', and the Renly/Loras scenes.  I just wish they will replace some of the disconnected scenes with more relevant ones. If there were fewer sex/nude scenes, the two wonderfully sexual/sinister scenes with Melisandre would of been even more effective

[The Monkey]

It also appears that HBO won't show Ros nude anymore, as she had put on some weight. Only athletic bodies on TV! Quite disgusting when you think about it.

[Tumnas the Torpid]

The Monkey, on 28 April 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

It also appears that HBO won't show Ros nude anymore, as she had put on some weight. Only athletic bodies on TV! Quite disgusting when you think about it.

I got the impression that maybe she conceived during their break.  Purely a speculation on my part.

[The Anti-Targ]

Well I'm glad about Ros, as I was finding the vagina monologues to be one of the more tiresome aspects of S1. Having said that, sexposition is preferrable to sex / sexual violence for its own purpose.

What I find is that the sex / nude scenes liftted directly from the books are good quality scenes, but the made for TV sex / nude scenes generally don't add much. This season, Renly / Margaery was a good added scene, it didn't need Marg's breasts at all, but they weren't out of place so it was fine, it established for the audience the nature of Renly and Marg's relationship, and, more importantly Marg's perspective on the marriage and the political situation. Sets her up extrememly well for the remainder of her involvement in the story.

Personally I preferred that Mel and Stannis' sexual connection was inferred in the books. showing it on screen seemed to be a reason to have a sex scene first and foremost.

So sex and nudity for its own sake = poor TV. Same with violence for its own sake. They have to be used to advance the narrative or give insight to a character. I don't agree that sex / nudity is there to make people uncomfortable. If it is natural and happening in a safe / loving setting then people should feel good about such scenes. Ned and Cat for instance if it was done as per the book would have been a really nice scene and connected us with the characters, of course when Luwin walks in we would have felt uncomfortable for Luwin, but not directly uncomfortable because of the nudity.

[Ser Robin Hill]

The thing that bothers me with the way sex is portrayed in the show, is that with the exception of Tyrion's scenes and the one with Littlefinger instructing his employees, no one seems to be enjoying any of it.

[Dragon greyscale]

The advantage of sex/nudity on TV is that it allows to show characters in an intimate setting. It is a great opportunity to show inner thoughts, insecurities, motives, how people relate to each other etc. etc. Sexposition is not a bad idea actually.
The thing is, it needs to be executed well. It has to be believable and the sex and exposition need to be balanced. The scenes that have failed were imbalanced in that regard. I honestly don't think that they showed sex for sex sake. It's just that the sex was way more prominent than the exposition. The marg/renly/loras scene was quite good because we learn a lot about their relationship and margaery's character. Most brothel scenes fail because they don't show a deeper backstory. Whores are just used as an object for other people. The fact that we learn next to nothing about the prostitute characters is probably what makes those scenes jarring. That's why I liked the Ros LF scene of this season (while not technically a sex scene between them)Great insight into her plight and LF's dickishness without becoming as unbelievable as the S1 scene between them.

[cromagnificent]

the problem with all these sex scenes is that the more you watch the show, the more the sex seems to be just a standard HBO insert (big hard pun intended).If you've watched any HBO shows over the past few years, gratuitous sex is just part of the menu. It's basically HBO's french fries. If the sex is going to play the part it should we need to see something deeper(more shamelees puns it's true) and inspired. I thought the Margery scene was tasteful and informative,if not altogether necessary,but as long as 3 out of 4 scenes are starring Ros, one of apparently 3 whores in all of Kings Landing, its going to be a bore.

[Catastrophe]

This is what I've been saying from the start. I don't mind sex scenes that further the plot or provide insight into the characters- the books are filled with those. What I hate is when the show adds pointless sex scenes just for the sake of having sex scenes. Does HBO think that appeals to people? I'd think if people wanted to watch porn, they'd just watch porn. The show would be much better off without such crass exploitation.

[Lady of Long Lake]

Catastrophe, on 30 April 2012 - 01:08 AM, said:

This is what I've been saying from the start. I don't mind sex scenes that further the plot or provide insight into the characters- the books are filled with those. What I hate is when the show adds pointless sex scenes just for the sake of having sex scenes. Does HBO think that appeals to people? I'd think if people wanted to watch porn, they'd just watch porn. The show would be much better off without such crass exploitation.

Agree and a few of the critics have said the same thing. One critic wrote," Is one of the producers a 13 year old boy?" and another called the series "Glorious Trash" because of all the smut.

I suppose HBO was one of the very few networks that could afford to do this show so maybe we have to take the bad along with the good.

[Giskard Reventlov]

I don't mind sex scenes at all. They can put as much and as explicit as they like it.

However I do agree that some scenes, like that with Geoffrey, only wastes valuable screen time and doesn't tell us nothing new (even the non readers got that he is sociopath by that episode) .

With books mercilessly shortened they should pick what they show more carefully.

[slowpoke]

Catastrophe, on 30 April 2012 - 01:08 AM, said:

This is what I've been saying from the start. I don't mind sex scenes that further the plot or provide insight into the characters- the books are filled with those. What I hate is when the show adds pointless sex scenes just for the sake of having sex scenes. Does HBO think that appeals to people? I'd think if people wanted to watch porn, they'd just watch porn. The show would be much better off without such crass exploitation.

I definitely agree with this. All the Ros scenes I found just useless and gratuitous. They didn't further the plot at all and they weren't in the books.
It is HBO though so we have to expect nudity and sex. In the books the sex scenes are pretty few and far apart because of just how massive the books really are and how much content they have.
In the show the content is cut so much that the sex scenes are so close together so the sex seems quite over the top. I agree with Giscard above that they need to pick what they want to show more carefully. Sex scenes just for nudity is pointless. That time would be better served showing some other part of the story. The sex scenes that matter to the overall story are just fine.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Robin Hill, on 29 April 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

The thing that bothers me with the way sex is portrayed in the show, is that with the exception of Tyrion's scenes and the one with Littlefinger instructing his employees, no one seems to be enjoying any of it.

Really?  Loras and Renly certainly seemed to be enjoying each other.  It was kinda sweet, even, especialy the last scene.

[mikehendo]

I couldn't agree more.  At this point the sex scenes seem gratuitous and aren't adding much of anything to the story.  I also feel as though they are minimizing Sansa's role.

[Corny Carson]

CrypticWeirwood, on 02 May 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:

Really?  Loras and Renly certainly seemed to be enjoying each other.  It was kinda sweet, even, especialy the last scene.

I found it disappointing. They never actually had a full, complete scene actually engaged in it. If they had timed Renly's demise better, there could have been a ~farewell~ scene the night before, where they 'pray' together. But apparently HBO isn't brave enough for an actual scene. Oh well.

[Buckwheat]

Agree with what everybody has said. Too much sex scenes that add little or nothing to the plot.

mikehendo, on 02 May 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

I also feel as though they are minimizing Sansa's role.

The scene in 4th episode surely did. People are more likely to remember the Ros scene that Sansa beating because it was more brutal and naked. But Sansa is a character that is actually important, and they are making her role little more than Rickon's.

I just want to praise the 5th episode beacuse they managed to make a whole episode entirely without sex and nudity. You see, it goes.

[slowpoke]

Buckwheat, on 02 May 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

The scene in 4th episode surely did. People are more likely to remember the Ros scene that Sansa beating because it was more brutal and naked. But Sansa is a character that is actually important, and they are making her role little more than Rickon's.

I just want to praise the 5th episode beacuse they managed to make a whole episode entirely without sex and nudity. You see, it goes.

You are absolutely right The beating scene of Sansa was completely forgettable compared to Ros and the other girl. She has not played that large of a part in the series this season which is surprising since she really is quite a large part of the story especially as it relates to the Starks.

Buckwheat, on 02 May 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

I just want to praise the 5th episode beacuse they managed to make a whole episode entirely without sex and nudity. You see, it goes.

I hope this trend continues!!

[Alex Baratheon]

I don't have anything about sex scenes, but the scenes with Ros or Joffrey or whoever, are very stupid and unneeded. HBO just wastes valuable screen time...

[WolveseatDragons]

Actually the Joffrey whore beating scene did have value, it set up Tyrion's very important comment in the last episode that "The King is a lost cause".  Up until that point you had Tyrion trying to educated Joffrey, from this point on he will simply ignore/avoid him.  It helped the story to have a moment that showed when Tyrion gave up on Joff.

I agree that Sansa is being minimized so far which is too bad.  Her scenes so far have been very powerful as you see a girl that is terrified and surrounded by enemies while feeling guilt over her father's demise and trying to navigate the brutal environment she is in.  

The sex scene that was most unnecessary by far this season was the set up to Ros's scene with Littlefinger where he talks about "bad investments".  It was sex for the sake of sex and set up a scene and plotline not in the books that simply reinforced that Littlefinger is a bad guy.  I actually think the show has gone too far in that regard btw because now it is crystal clear what a slimeball LF is, he is more interesting in the books as a guy who is a scumbag but he can do such a good job of appearing like someone that will help others.  For instance:

Spoiler

When LF throws Lysa out the Moon Door at the end of Book 3 it won't be surprising at all in the show.

  I think they have made LF's character less complex and less interesting.  In the books I actually sympathized more with LF for a long time because of his tragic background with Cat.  It's essentially the opposite of Theon who I had no sympathy for in the books but care about a lot in the show.

[victim]

Isn't Sophie Turner sixteen? I'm pretty sure anything more than what HBO did with that scene would have been (at least somewhat) illegal. They pretty much went as far as anybody would have been willing to go with a teenage girl.

The scene with Joffrey, Ros and Dancy was brutal, but I can see why it was used. It's pretty obvious how much of a sexually pent-up, angst-ridden sociopath that Joffrey is; and I think this scene worked well as an exposition of him unleashing his frustrations on the whores as a way of getting back at Tyrion for making him look like a fool at court when he helped Sansa.

Lastly, in terms of Sansa feeling like a background character. I think they've done so on purpose. We'll see her here and there as a reminder of what she's going through in King's Landing - though we pretty much know everything she goes through and how tough her life is, so we don't have to see all that much more of it. Her storyline should really pick up again next season, as it slowly builds up and up and culminates at a certain wedding of purple.

[Buckwheat]

victim, on 03 May 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

Isn't Sophie Turner sixteen? I'm pretty sure anything more than what HBO did with that scene would have been (at least somewhat) illegal. They pretty much went as far as anybody would have been willing to go with a teenage girl.

I do not think anybody wants more nudity of Sansa. If they managed to film Meryn beating her bloody, surely they could have added some lines between her and the Hound and Dontos somewhere.