88 replies to this topic

[greywindsrage]

Clearly Maggy wasn't lying but does anyone believe that Margaery is the younger,more beautiful girl to cast her down? Yes the people of Kings Landing love Margaery a lot more than Cersei but I feel thats a little too easy because so far Cersei is still Queen Regent. I have a funny feeling that Sansa is that girl Maggy prophecised.
   We all would love for Arya to be the one to do it but "Arry" is not described as being beautiful especially when compared to Sansa. If their is anyone who hates Cersei as much Arya it has to be Sansa.
  She is now under the tutelage of Petyr "Littlefinger" Baelish which makes an interesting turn for her character. Yes we know her as a naive maiden but she is slowly losing her innocence.
Due to Martin's ability to do the unexpected this would make perfect sense. Just remember what Littlefinger says to her about  Harold the Heir. If this does happen then there is no doubt in my mind that Sansa will go after Cersei. However at the same time it could also mean Daenerys but that would be to easy.
Am I the only one who believes this or are there others out there?

[now my watch begins]

IMHO - Cersei mistakenly believes that the "younger, more beautiful queen to cast her down" is Margaery...  I don't think this is what will happen, that is the one that is too easy - its not the one Cersei thinks it is.  Our other potential queen candidates are: Dany.  I don't think Sansa or Arya counts, because I'm not sure how they are in line to be queen?  I don't think either would want to be queen - ever.  Did I miss anyone else?  Shireen is younger, but certainly not more beautiful. Could Jeyne Westerling Stark take her down? She was a queen don't forget.

[theguyfromtheVale]

There are quite a number of possibilities out there - Sansa, Margaery, Jeyne Westerling, Dany, even younger Cersei casting down her older self... I personally like the last one, as beauty is at least partially subjective, so the only way someone else can be objectively more beautiful if it's the same person. But yes, Sansa is quite possible. She's not a queen yet, though, or at the very least, she doesn't consider herself to be one.

[James Arryn]

Why are we clear she wasn't lying?

Also, what makes prophesies or prophets monochromatic?

Edited by James Arryn, 28 April 2012 - 08:53 PM.

[The Last Direwolf]

@now my watch begins... Sansa is going to become Queen in the North when she reveals herself to the world and starts a rebellion against the Iron Throne in the Vale, Riverlands and North. Arya could potentially become Queen should anything happen to Sansa or Rickon, but I don't think she's a likely candidate.

[greywindsrage]

now my watch begins, on 28 April 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

IMHO - Cersei mistakenly believes that the "younger, more beautiful queen to cast her down" is Margaery...  I don't think this is what will happen, that is the one that is too easy - its not the one Cersei thinks it is.  Our other potential queen candidates are: Dany.  I don't think Sansa or Arya counts, because I'm not sure how they are in line to be queen?  I don't think either would want to be queen - ever.  Did I miss anyone else?  Shireen is younger, but certainly not more beautiful. Could Jeyne Westerling Stark take her down? She was a queen don't forget.

Did Maggy actually say that Cersei would be brought down by another Queen? I can't check because I lent out all my books except for ADWD. Also if Robb was declared King of The North then that would make Sansa the next in line since it seems as if Jon has died. Therefore she would be The Queen of The North.

[Apple Martini]

It could easily be a play on words, leading readers to think they saw something they didn't (see: a Stark knocked up Ashara Dayne). The wording is something like, "you'll be queen, but another will come along, younger and more beautiful, and eff you up." "Another" is not ever specified as being "another queen." That's how readers take it, with "queen" being implied, but it doesn't necessarily have to be read that way.

I like Sansa for it, in whatever iteration you choose. I think it's a double bluff: one for Cersei (who thinks it's Margaery), and one for readers (who are led to think it's probably Dany). My feeling that it isn't Dany comes from the part where the "other" will take all that Cersei "holds dear." That suggests a feeling of personal animosity beyond generic political feuds. I think it's someone with a personal score to settle with Cersei, and for that reason, I think it will be Sansa.

Edited by Apple Martini, 28 April 2012 - 09:10 PM.

[greywindsrage]

James Arryn, on 28 April 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

Why are we clear she wasn't lying?

Also, what makes prophesies or prophets monochromatic?

She was right about Cersei marrying the King and becoming Queen. Cersei had three children while Robert had sixteen. Melara died young just like Maggy said.Joffery is dead even though Tommen and Myrcella are not but there are two books left. So far she has been right about most things.

[James Arryn]

greywindsrage, on 28 April 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

She was right about Cersei marrying the King and becoming Queen. Cersei had three children while Robert had sixteen. Melara died young just like Maggy said.Joffery is dead even though Tommen and Myrcella are not but there are two books left. So far she has been right about most things.

Right, but a person can have a sincere gift without being sincere.

[greywindsrage]

Apple Martini, on 28 April 2012 - 09:10 PM, said:

It could easily be a play on words, leading readers to think they saw something they didn't (see: a Stark knocked up Ashara Dayne). The wording is something like, "you'll be queen, but another will come along, younger and more beautiful, and eff you up." "Another" is not ever specified as being "another queen." That's how readers take it, with "queen" being implied, but it doesn't necessarily have to be read that way.

I like Sansa for it, in whatever iteration you choose. I think it's a double bluff: one for Cersei (who thinks it's Margaery), and one for readers (who are led to think it's probably Dany). My feeling that it isn't Dany comes from the part where the "other" will take all that Cersei "holds dear." That suggests a feeling of personal animosity beyond generic political feuds. I think it's someone with a personal score to settle with Cersei, and for that reason, I think it will be Sansa.

Exactly!!! Sansa has been around Cersei so she knows just how much of a cold evil bitch she is. Obviously if their is anyone who really hates Cersei it must be Sansa. It makes perfect sense. I just don't see how Martin could have Jon and Arya changing through their experiences and have Sansa remain naive and weak through hers.

[greywindsrage]

James Arryn, on 28 April 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

Right, but a person can have a sincere gift without being sincere.

Its easy to say that but you havent given me an alternative to my theory. Martin has a way of putting it right in front of you but yet you miss it . If you have another theory I would really like to hear it.

[Kung Fu Kiddo]

Apple Martini, on 28 April 2012 - 09:10 PM, said:

It could easily be a play on words, leading readers to think they saw something they didn't (see: a Stark knocked up Ashara Dayne). The wording is something like, "you'll be queen, but another will come along, younger and more beautiful, and eff you up." "Another" is not ever specified as being "another queen." That's how readers take it, with "queen" being implied, but it doesn't necessarily have to be read that way.

I like Sansa for it, in whatever iteration you choose. I think it's a double bluff: one for Cersei (who thinks it's Margaery), and one for readers (who are led to think it's probably Dany). My feeling that it isn't Dany comes from the part where the "other" will take all that Cersei "holds dear." That suggests a feeling of personal animosity beyond generic political feuds. I think it's someone with a personal score to settle with Cersei, and for that reason, I think it will be Sansa.

This is how I see it. From the first time I read Maggy's prophecies, I have always assumed it was Sansa that she was speaking of.

A lot of people get confused with the "queen" part, assuming that it *has* to be someone who is already queen or will, by way of succession, become queen. But keep in mind the possibility for Sansa to marry a king or become Queen in the North, or something along those lines. Like AM said, I think Maggy's prophecy is largely a play on words, and like all prophecies, confuse the hell out of people.

[princeofnothing]

To me the obvious answer was always Dany, but I wouldn't rule out Sansa. Whether she liked it or not, she learned a lot in KL, and she's learning even more under the tutelage of Littlefinger. Ever since I first read GoT,  I was always alarmed at what Sansa's fate might be, because of Lady's death (ie, becoming separated from the pack, so to speak) and what she witnessed in KL. I wondered if she might turn into some ruthless Game-of -Thrones player like Cersei. No matter how you cut it, she most definitely has cause to ruin Cersei's life and everything in it.

[Apple Martini]

Kung Fu Kiddo, on 28 April 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

Like AM said, I think Maggy's prophecy is largely a play on words, and like all prophecies, confuse the hell out of people.

That isn't the only play on words in the prophecy. "Gold shall be their crowns" is a big one. So many people assume that it must mean that all three Lannister children will be crowned monarchs (to be fair, two of the three have been), but it can also refer to their "golden crowns" — Lannister gold hair.

[Kung Fu Kiddo]

Apple Martini, on 28 April 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

That isn't the only play on words in the prophecy. "Gold shall be their crowns" is a big one. So many people assume that it must mean that all three Lannister children will be crowned monarchs (to be fair, two of the three have been), but it can also refer to their "golden crowns" — Lannister gold hair.

One of my friends brought that up to me during a discussion, and I think it makes a deal of sense, since I personally don't think Myrcella will be crowned (by anyone, Lannister or Martell).

Word plays, word plays everywhere...

To be fair, I had to go back and read over them a few times and engage in  some lengthy discussions/debates over their meanings before I felt 100% assured of my conclusions.

[Frozen Soul]

I always thought that it meant Sansa, yes Dany could also be a possibility but things are more personal between Cersei and Sansa, she would be returning the favor in a way.

[chris999]

I think it will be Dany.

I think that most readers no longer like Dany's storyline, so I think that people tend to overlook her when looking for their younger, more beautiful queen.

I cant rule out Sansa though, and I actually hope it is Sansa, because if the prophecy is supposed to be Dany, then it is too obvious.

I dont think it is Margery.

[greywindsrage]

Apple Martini, on 28 April 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

That isn't the only play on words in the prophecy. "Gold shall be their crowns" is a big one. So many people assume that it must mean that all three Lannister children will be crowned monarchs (to be fair, two of the three have been), but it can also refer to their "golden crowns" — Lannister gold hair.

That does make sense.

[greywindsrage]

chris999, on 28 April 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

I think it will be Dany.

I think that most readers no longer like Dany's storyline, so I think that people tend to overlook her when looking for their younger, more beautiful queen.

I cant rule out Sansa though, and I actually hope it is Sansa, because if the prophecy is supposed to be Dany, then it is too obvious.

I dont think it is Margery.

Dany is way too obvious. She was who I thought of first but then I remembered that nothing really happens the way you expect it to and  Sansa hasn't really done anything yet.

[princeofnothing]

greywindsrage, on 28 April 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

That does make sense.

I always thought it did refer to their hair.

greywindsrage, on 28 April 2012 - 10:22 PM, said:

Dany is way too obvious. She was who I thought of first but then I remembered that nothing really happens the way you expect it to and  Sansa hasn't really done anything yet.

Yeah, I think we're due for an explosion of vengeance from Sansa. I wouldn't complain