66 replies to this topic

[Batman]

Clearly there is absolutely no chance of a reconciliation between the Dornish and Lord Tywin once a Feast for Crows is read. My question is who do you think would be the best choice of ally. Tywin commands all the power of the Westerlands and is possibly the greatest Hand of the king to ever rule.

On th other hand Dorne is almost as difficult to conquer and hold as the North and have a great amount of power behind them.

Who would be the better ally to have?

Edited by Stubby, 29 April 2012 - 02:19 AM.

[Apple Martini]

Well Tywin's dead, so ...

[ShadowRaven]

Apple Martini, on 29 April 2012 - 02:03 AM, said:

Spoiler much?

Edited by ShadowRaven, 29 April 2012 - 02:04 AM.

[Mark Antony]

uhh the OP said he has read through AFFC so how is that a spoiler?

[Tumnas the Torpid]

Relax guys, it's all good.  Tywin Lannister is Azor Ahain Reborn.  Reborn amidst shit and steel, to wield Stenchbringer, the Brown Sword of Heroes.

[Knight Of Winter]

I think Tywin would make a better ally (as much as I am disgusted by his character). It's been established that main strength of Dorne lies in its climate and possibilities for guerilla warfare. While this makes them hard to conquer, Dornishmen would still be less useful in battles outside of Dorne, mainly due to their low numbers (25k compared to Lannister 50k or so).

Edited by Knight Of Winter, 29 April 2012 - 02:43 AM.

[Turkey Jack]

If your goals align with Tywin then Tywin, but god help you if stand in the Lannisters way when they want something ally or not.

Edited by Turkey Jack, 29 April 2012 - 02:50 AM.

[cuendillar]

Unless you're very strong, I think an alliance with the Dornish is much easier to maintain. If you throw in with the Lannisters (especially under Tywin), likely you will soon find yourselves to be little more than a glorified vassal.

[Batman]

Apple Martini, on 29 April 2012 - 02:03 AM, said:

Well Tywin's dead, so ...

What was the point of that, this is hypothetical, obviously I am speaking about when he was alive

[Talleyrand]

Bloodraven was a better hand. I mean he can turn into a tree, Tywin only turns into smelly corpse.

[Batman]

Lothbrok, on 29 April 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

Bloodraven was a better hand. I mean he can turn into a tree, Tywin only turns into smelly corpse.

He was imprisoned and sent to the wall and the people seemed to hate him towards the end. He was by far the best master of Whispers, but as far as hands go he had a lot go against him that he couldnt control.

[Talleyrand]

Batman, on 29 April 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

He was imprisoned and sent to the wall and the people seemed to hate him towards the end. He was by far the best master of Whispers, but as far as hands go he had a lot go against him that he couldnt control.

He was only imprisoned when Maekar came to power, who was known to have a grudge again Brynden. I'd say he was leagues ahead of Tywin as a hand. Bloodraven stopped a rebellion before it could even start properly. In comparison Tywin let the King get kidnapped.

[Steelers7127]

I would take Dorne, seem more loyal. Tywin might sack my city.

[Ser Malthred Stark]

If there is trust between you and Tywin, then definitely Tywin. He has a powerful army, a strategically sound mind, and can play the Game of Thrones. However he will likely end up controlling you

It is also mentioned several times that the Martells don't have all that powerful of an army, compared to the other kingdoms.

[wertham]

Ser Malthred Stark, on 29 April 2012 - 11:16 PM, said:

If there is trust between you and Tywin, then definitely Tywin.

In the end, I don't think anyone trusted Tywin... and anyone who did ended up dead.  

He sucked at the Game. You don't mess around with your son's whores.

Edited by wertham, 29 April 2012 - 11:24 PM.

[Hear Us Roar]

IMO Dorne is useless, as are all their leaders.

[Gurkhal]

I'd rather have Tywin because I just can't stand the Martells even while the rest of the Dornish are ok. Also allies who are only really good with defending themselves arn't much use.

[Horus Bergeron]

ShadowRaven, on 29 April 2012 - 02:04 AM, said:

Spoiler much?

There are no spoilers in the book threads.  If you feel you are being spoiled then read, my friend, until you catch up.

Edited by Horus Bergeron, 30 April 2012 - 01:50 AM.

[Prince of Dragonstone]

The Dornish are good on their own turf. Guerrilla warfare is their specialty. But open field battle is not their forte. They also were not that loyal to the Throne just because Elia was slighted by Rhaegar. Elia was still at the Red Keep under the Mad King's thumb. It was foolish of them not to send the full support of their forces, especially at the Battle of the Trident where their numbers could have turned the tide in Rhaegar's favor. But instead the Trident was lost and Tywin decided the war was basically done and decided to sack the capital and Elia + her children were massacred. Dumb move, Dorne.

But then again Tywin hasn't really proven himself to be that great of a military tactician either. He was defeated by Robb on every battlefield, lost his fleet to the Ironborn and let his king get kidnapped by some minor house. When he did go to rescue Aerys, it was Barristan who was the hero, not Tywin. The only successes he's had has been at backstabbing (The Sack of King's Landing, The Red Wedding). I don't count the Battle of Blackwater has his success because that was mainly Tyrion's ingenious plan and the strength of House Tyrell's massive re-enforcement.

[Gurkhal]

I'm afraid that you are wrong on a few bits here.

Prince of Dragonstone, on 30 April 2012 - 02:24 AM, said:

The Dornish are good on their own turf. Guerrilla warfare is their specialty. But open field battle is not their forte. They also were not that loyal to the Throne just because Elia was slighted by Rhaegar. Elia was still at the Red Keep under the Mad King's thumb. It was foolish of them not to send the full support of their forces, especially at the Battle of the Trident where their numbers could have turned the tide in Rhaegar's favor. But instead the Trident was lost and Tywin decided the war was basically done and decided to sack the capital and Elia + her children were massacred. Dumb move, Dorne.

Well Dorne did send 10 000 spears to the Trident under the command of Lewyn Martell and so I think that they give what they had as I'm kind of thinking that 10 000 spears might be what Dorne can project outside of their own borders

Prince of Dragonstone, on 30 April 2012 - 02:24 AM, said:

But then again Tywin hasn't really proven himself to be that great of a military tactician either. He was defeated by Robb on every battlefield, lost his fleet to the Ironborn and let his king get kidnapped by some minor house. When he did go to rescue Aerys, it was Barristan who was the hero, not Tywin. The only successes he's had has been at backstabbing (The Sack of King's Landing, The Red Wedding). I don't count the Battle of Blackwater has his success because that was mainly Tyrion's ingenious plan and the strength of House Tyrell's massive re-enforcement.

1. Tywin never faced Robb in any battle. He fought Roose Bolton at the Green Fork, Edmure at the Fords were he was indeed defeated and then he faced Stannis Baratheon who he conquered at the Blackwater. You can count it as Tyrion's or the Tyrell's victory as well if you like but fact remains that Tywin Lannister leads the Lannister forces and those forces were victorious at the end of the day.

2. The fleet was a little dumb but we don't know if Tywin was even aware that Balon had crowned himself yet.

3. The Defience of Duskendale didn't leave Tywin much choice as the rebels threatened to kill the king if Tywin stormed, and being a guy with a brain Tywin didn't storm and thus didn't put the king's life in needless danger.

4. Tywin was also party to laying the Reynes and Tarbecks low, who were the two most powerful bannermen of Casterly Rock.