300 replies to this topic

[Apple Martini]

Lord Littlefinger, on 29 April 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

No as good as Eur n's though.

She was ahead of her time.

[jarl the climber]

Asha would probaly be a better ruler of the Iron Islands than her Uncles or Theon. The problem is according to Aeron is that the Ironborn would not except a woman as a ruler. Many people think she would need to keep Theon alive and rule through him if she was to govern.

[Apple Martini]

jarl the climber, on 29 April 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

Asha would probaly be a better ruler of the Iron Islands than her Uncles or Theon. The problem is according to Aeron is that the Ironborn would not except a woman as a ruler. Many people think she would need to keep Theon alive and rule through him if she was to govern.

And how is that that much different from the Targs' hyper-Salic law?

[Lady Kraken]

jarl the climber, on 29 April 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

Asha would probaly be a better ruler of the Iron Islands than her Uncles or Theon. The problem is according to Aeron is that the Ironborn would not except a woman as a ruler. Many people think she would need to keep Theon alive and rule through him if she was to govern.

Well, she almost won the Kingsmoot, so clearly some of them are willing to accept a female ruler. I wouldn't take anything that Aeron Greyjoy thinks or says as absolute truth or representative of most of the population. The man isn't all there.

Edited by Lady Kraken, 29 April 2012 - 05:48 PM.

[Skeksi]

Hmmmm...

I think Daenerys has promise- she's shown a desire to implement social change (see her freeing of the slaves in Essos), and unlike many other female characters (Cersei, I'm especially looking at you here) who seem to see the system as unfair in the way it treats them, but are in themselves quite disparaging of other women, Dany actually seems to value the advice of other women and appoints them to political positions (Missandei, the Green Grace and Rylona Ree (sp?) all serve as advisors/ council members to her)- so her rule could go some way towards evening the extreme patriarchy demonstrated in Westeros. In her decision to stay and rule Meereen, she seems to show a level of understanding that rulership should not just be about rights, but responsibility. However, she, like other young leaders in the story, needs to learn to temper her idealism with realism (we've seen the aftereffects of her conquering of Slaver's Bay, for example), and even more than this, she needs to educate herself more on Westeros if she hopes to rule it- the geography, the histories. It might be that it has happened "off camera", so to speak, but she certainly needs to listen to the harsh truths about her father, and perhaps to reach an understanding as to why the Starks and Baratheons acted as they did- otherwise she will be fighting them, too.

Myrcella demonstrates promise, but is really too young and not shown enough to say for certain.

Arianne's Queenmaker plan didn't go well- but bear in mind, she was working on limited information and a sense of desperation. Again, hard to say for certain how she would act as a ruler, maybe we'll see a bit more of her leadership qualities in the next book.

I think Asha would be a good Queen of the Iron Islands- she is realistic enough to know that the Ironborn need to change their approach regarding relationships with the mainland kingdoms, and seems to have done well on a small scale leading her crew, and her invasion of Deepwood Motte. As Queen of Westeros, however... it's hard to imagine an ironborn, much less a Greyjoy, being accepted as ruler of Westeros, realistically speaking, IMO.

Sansa and Margaery are probably in line with a more traditional idea of a queen, particularly in the south. Well educated, nobly born and bred, with courtly manners- Tyrion mentions what a good queen Sansa would have made Joffrey, given the chance. Savvy enough to win the love of their subjects, etc. I don't see either of them campaigning for radical social change, but with winter having arrived, and the nation being somewhat in the midst of a civil war, perhaps it would work better to have a more traditional noble lady for a queen?

Cersei... no. Just no.

My vote would probably go to Dany, with the provision that she has learned more about Westeros by the time she reached the throne. Asha would be a maybe, but very unlikely to be accepted.

[Bride of Winter]

Sansa for Queen in the North!

I think Margaery would make a great queen on the iron throne. And I would really love Asha to be queen of the iron isles, but I'm not too sure how the ironborn would feel about that.

[therustman]

Ayra for Queen of the North. With her various training and a good advisor/s I think she'd be fine, less politics in the North.

The Northman would immediately rally around her if she was revealed especially with Nymeria back. Female or not she is a Stark and at present the Bastard of Bolton is in Winterfell.

[etu]

jarl the climber, on 29 April 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

Asha would probaly be a better ruler of the Iron Islands than her Uncles or Theon. The problem is according to Aeron is that the Ironborn would not except a woman as a ruler. Many people think she would need to keep Theon alive and rule through him if she was to govern.

Who the fuck wouldn't though?

[Sand Snake No. 9]

ARYa_Nym, on 29 April 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

I don't think there's a guarantee that they wouldn't just marry off Arya and Sansa again and let their husbands rule. They might even do it to Rickon even though he's so young. There are Wylla Manderly theories even though I do prefer him to be matched with Lyanna Mormont.

ARYa-Nym, it doesn't look like you're rooting for the home team, if you know what I mean.

However, I think I'd quite like to read a chapter about Arya being "married off."  Based on her story arc so far, that wedding could wind up bloodier than Robb's.

Arya named her wolf "Nymeria," after the queen who led 10,000 ships full of her people to a new life.  Sansa named her wolf "Lady" after some well-behaved ideal of womanhood.  Lady is dead; Nymeria is leading a huge man-eating wolf-pack through the Riverlands.  The wolves decide it.  Nymeria, er, Arya, for Queen!

Queen Seylse is too class-conscious, narrow-minded, and religious to make a good queen. She thinks that she hasn't been able to provide Stannis with a male heir because Robert dishonored their marriage bed, and she wants to erase that dishonor by burning Edric Storm. Duh. It seems to me that a woman who doesn't understand the birds and the bees isn't fit to run anything! Then, what if she, Stannis, and Melisandre make it to King's Landing and start burning people, godswoods and septs? That ought to start a religious war that would dwarf the War of Five Kings.

She also irritates the hell out of me because she won't get it though her head that THE WILDINGS HAVE NO HEREDITARY ROYALTY AND VAL IS NOT A PRINCESS!!! Sorry, that density just makes me crazy.

Edited by Sand Snake No. 9, 11 May 2012 - 08:29 PM.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

etu, on 29 April 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

Who the fuck wouldn't though?

Not as good as Eur n

Edited by Lord Littlefinger's Lash, 29 April 2012 - 06:29 PM.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Lord Littlefinger, on 29 April 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

Not as good as Eur n

Euron is way too rapey; hell the women of Westeros have it bad enough without unleashing a nation of politically-motivated rapists on them.  I think the same way about the Dothraki, too.  Let them stay the hell in Essos, although a battle between the Ironborn and the Dothraki would be epic.

In fact, we might see one in the next book, if Dany brings a khal back to Meereen while Victorion et al. is there.

[Ice Turtle]

Sand Snake No. 9, on 29 April 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

Euron is way too rapey; hell the women of Westeros have it bad enough without unleashing a nation of politically-motivated rapists on them.  I think the same way about the Dothraki, too.  Let them stay the hell in Essos, although a battle between the Ironborn and the Dothraki would be epic.

In fact, we might see one in the next book, if Dany brings a khal back to Meereen while Victorion et al. is there.

It would be like lion against shark. Ironborn rule the sea and are mostly poor riders, Dothraki  are dominant in open field and are actually afraid to sail. As for fight inside the city walls it depends on how narrow are the streets and how effective the warriors on horses would be and if Ironborn use at least some type of armor.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Sand Snake No. 9, on 29 April 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

Euron is way too rapey; hell the women of Westeros have it bad enough without unleashing a nation of politically-motivated rapists on them. I think the same way about the Dothraki, too. Let them stay the hell in Essos, although a battle between the Ironborn and the Dothraki would be epic. In fact, we might see one in the next book, if Dany brings a khal back to Meereen while Victorion et al. is there.

I don't know how rapey he is.  He seems have confined his rapeiness to tales from his voyaging.  Unlike the Baratheon and Targaryean administrations the Greyjoy era will establish the Red Keep and its Royal chambers as a rape free zone.

[Ivy Snow]

I'd pick Myrcella  or Sansa as the Queen.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Lord Littlefinger, on 29 April 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

I don't know how rapey he is.  He seems have confined his rapeiness to tales from his voyaging.  Unlike the Baratheon and Targaryean administrations the Greyjoy era will establish the Red Keep and its Royal chambers as a rape free zone.

We're obviously reading about different Ironborn, and a different Euron.  That banquet at Oakenshield that he presided over isn't likely to raise his rating among women voters, not to mention fathers of daughters.    Then there's that little speech he gave Victarion where he described women screaming while he filled them with his seed, or whatever.  Not too crazy about that tongue-removal thing, either.

Sorry, don't mean to hijack thread.

[Howling Mad]

Margaery Tyrell

[Gurkhal]

Sand Snake No. 9, on 29 April 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

although a battle between the Ironborn and the Dothraki would be epic.

I hope it would be a sea battle then, the worst landcrabs of Westeros against the worst seadogs of the same planet. Lots of horsemen taking a deep drink I can tell you that.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Sand Snake No. 9, on 29 April 2012 - 09:50 PM, said:

We're obviously reading about different Ironborn,

Is Euron his brother's keeper?

“Aye,” said the Mad Huntsman, “and a kinder fate than you deserve for all your kind have done. Lions, you call yourselves. At Sherrer and the Mummer’s Ford, girls of six and seven years were raped, and babes still on the breast were cut in two while their mothers watched. No lion ever killed so cruel.”

“I was not at Sherrer, nor the Mummer’s Ford,” the Hound told him. “Lay your dead children at some other door.”

Thoros answered him. “Do you deny that House Clegane was built upon dead children? I saw them lay Prince Aegon and Princess Rhaenys before the Iron Throne. By rights your arms should bear two bloody infants in place of those ugly dogs.”

The Hound’s mouth twitched. “Do you take me for my brother? Is being born Clegane a crime?”...

....“People,” said Lord Beric. “People great and small, young and old. Good people and bad people, who died on the points of Lannister spears or saw their bellies opened by Lannister swords.”

“It wasn’t my sword in their bellies. Any man who says it was is a bloody liar.”

“You serve the Lannisters of Casterly Rock,” said Thoros.

“Once. Me and thousands more. Is each of us guilty of the crimes of the others?” Clegane spat.

Quote

and a different Euron.  That banquet at Oakenshield that he presided over isn't likely to raise his rating among women voters, not to mention fathers of daughters.

Why? Must every man mislike Victarion because he  made the crew a gift of Maester Kerwin's arse.?

Quote

Sorry, don't mean to hijack thread.  

“Your brother Jon asked it of me. And I have a tender spot in my heart for cripples and bastards and broken things.” Tyrion Lannister placed a hand over his heart and grinned.

The serving wenches wore fine woolens and plush velvets, the Lord Captain did not fail to note. He took them for scullions dressed up in the clothes of Lady Hewett and her ladies, until Hotho told him they were Lady Hewett and her ladies. It amused the Crow’s Eye to make them wait and pour. There were eight of them: her ladyship herself, still handsome though grown somewhat stout, and seven younger women aged from twenty-five to ten, her daughters and good-daughters.

Lord Hewett himself sat in his accustomed place upon the dais, dressed in all his heraldic finery. His arms and legs had been tied to his chair, and a huge white radish shoved between his teeth so he could not speak... though he could see and hear. The Crow’s Eye had claimed the place of honor at his lordship’s right hand. A pretty, buxom girl of seventeen or eighteen years was in his lap, barefoot and disheveled, her arms around his neck. “Who is that?” Victarion asked the men around him.

“His lordship’s bastard daughter,” laughed Hotho. “Before Euron took the castle, she was made to wait at table on the rest and take her own meals with the servants.”

Euron put his blue lips to her throat, and the girl giggled and whispered something in his ear. Smiling, he kissed her throat again. Her white skin was covered with red marks where his mouth had been; they made a rosy necklace about her neck and shoulders. Another whisper in his ear, and this time the Crow’s Eye laughed aloud, then slammed his wine cup down for silence. “Good ladies,” he called out to his highborn serving women, “Falia is concerned for your fine gowns. She would not have them stained with grease and wine and dirty groping fingers, since I have promised that she may choose her own clothes from your wardrobes after the feast. So you had best disrobe.”

Quote

Then there's that little speech he gave Victarion where he described women screaming while he filled them with his seed, or whatever.  Not too crazy about that tongue-removal thing, either.

what speech?

[The Mother of The Others]

myrcella's a child, man.   Cercei is the queen, and I would have her.   Daenerys is trying to be mean, so she should get a turn as queen.  Sansa is hard to find, but the throne is easy to find, and those who hope to find themselves seated upon the throne must first find themselves.  (I don't know what that means either)

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Lord Littlefinger, on 29 April 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

what speech?

The conversation he had with Victarion after the banquet (I think it was) -- the one where he was strutting about naked.

And I have to tell you LLL, that sometimes I don't get the connection between the quotations you post and the issue under discussion.  This is one of those times.

And frankly I think a non-Ironborn man SHOULD be concerned about rape if he's captured by the Ironborn, not to mention stabbing, drowning, burning, enslavement, humiliation -- have I missed anything?

But, eh . . . you love you some Euron?  Be my guest.

And I apologize again for the hijacking.