300 replies to this topic

[Apple Martini]

I'd choose Arianne or Asha if we're talking about who could step in now and do a good job. Between those two, I'd choose Asha. She's shown that she can lead people, she came this close to being declared queen on the Iron Islands (probably the least female-friendly part of Westeros), and her plan for the ironborn showed, I think, very impressive long-term diplomatic thinking. Despite her culture and upbringing, I think she's a fundamentally decent person.

Myrcella and Sansa have potential, but they're both too young to be productive immediately.

I don't think we know enough about Margaery, Shireen or Jeyne to know how they would do on their own.

Melisandre shouldn't even be a contender.

Dany has good intentions but everything she touches turns to complete shit. So, no.

And Cersei is a disaster.

[Dracarya]

ARYa_Nym, on 29 April 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

I don't think Arya would do well in a leadership position especially if it involved all of Westeros. She does have a quality that most people of her social status don't have and it's her ability to connect with the people of Westeros whether high or low born.

EDIT: I think Alysanne had that quality too because she had charities and got rid of First Night rights.

I don't believe Westeros will be united by the end of the series. I believe the North at least will be divided from the South. Arya would be a fantastic Queen in the North - she knows people, she knows how to connect with people, like you said, and she doesn't give a shit about wearing dresses and acting like a lady. She'd see and speak to the widllings as people, like Jon does, and let them settle in the north. She'd give them homes and jobs, but she'd also do what needed to be done if they stepped out of line. The North needs a hard ruler; Arya's it. Maybe not alone, seeing as she's so young, but she is certainly the best candidate. She wouldn't shy away from having Ramsay killed and flushing the disgusting creatures from her lands. She's fair, has a sense of justice, and she can only get better as time goes on. This is why I don't believe Sansa would make a good QitN - a Southern Queen, maybe, but she's barely got any of the North in her. Arya and Jon are the most Stark-like children, it's commented on in the books numerous times - that's important. Might be it's just important to give clues to Jon being Lyannas' son, but I also think it's important to show where Arya's going.

Alongside everything else, Nymeria and her pack of wolves would be a very good contribution to any army Arya might need to take back Winterfell. Once the northerners realise that Ramsay's bride is not Arya, and that the real Arya is back/coming back, they'd rally to her cause straight away.

So, once again, THE QUEEN IN THE NORTH!

Edited by Dracarya, 29 April 2012 - 01:36 PM.

[Winter's Knight]

Dany as Queen and Sansa as Hand.

[ARYa_Nym]

Dracarya, on 29 April 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

I don't believe Westeros will be united by the end of the series. I believe the North at least will be divided from the South. Arya would be a fantastic Queen in the North - she knows people, she knows how to connect with people, like you said, and she doesn't give a shit about wearing dresses and acting like a lady. She'd see and speak to the widllings as people, like Jon does, and let them settle in the north. She'd give them homes and jobs, but she'd also do what needed to be done if they stepped out of line. The North needs a hard ruler; Arya's it. Maybe not alone, seeing as she's so young, but she is certainly the best candidate. She wouldn't shy away from having Ramsay killed and flushing the disgusting creatures from her lands. She's fair, has a sense of justice, and she can only get better as time goes on. This is why I don't believe Sansa would make a good QinN - a Southern Queen, maybe, but she's barely got any of the North in her. Arya and Jon are the most Stark-like children, it's commented on in the books numerous times - that's important. Might be it's just important to give clues to Jon being Lyannas' son, but I also think it's important to show where Arya's going.

Alongside everything else, Nymeria and her pack of wolves would be a very good contribution to any army Arya might need to take back Winterfell. Once the northerners realise that Ramsay's bride is not Arya, and that the real Arya is back/coming back, they'd rally to her cause straight away.

So, once again, THE QUEEN IN THE NORTH!

Not to be a debbie downer but I wonder if the North would even allow itself to be ruled by a female. I don't think it's a coincidence that Winterfell or the North has never been ruled by a woman for thousands of years.

I also noticed that the houses that we know that secretly practice First Night  happen to be Northern houses.

I don't think this place is as great for women as some might think but we don't have enough info on Northern female relations that I know of. I did notice that Arya seems to be similar to Northern girls. People usually say that Arya doesn't act right (AGoT period) but I don't think Alys or the Mormont women are that much different.

[Queen Cersei I]

Though this is sort of cheating, I think the Queen of Thornes would be a potentially great ruler. Unlike many of the ruling figures thus far, she has shown both administrative ability and political savvy. She appears to have morals in a way that say, LF does not, but she is willing to morally compromise and be a little bit devious (even immoral) in a way that Ned or Robb Stark refused to.

Furthermore, unlike promising but inexperienced candidates (including Margary and Arrianne) she has a great deal of experience. I've always gotten the feeling that she's been calling the shots from behind the scenes for a long time now.

Of the candidates mentioned, I'd say that Arrianne shows the most promise. Margary is an excellent politician, however, we've seen nothing of her administrative abilities. Same with Asha, who shows competence and great leadership abilities (not to mention excellent common sense) but seems at times prone to saying impolitic things to those around her, which might get her into trouble in the game of politics. (She reminds me of Tyrion to a certain extent in this respect.)

Overall, I'd say Olenna Tyrell by a landslide.

Edited by Queen Cersei I, 29 April 2012 - 12:51 PM.

[Val the Wildling Princess]

butterbumps!, on 29 April 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

Val Wild-Born, the First of Her Name, Queen of Andals, the Rhyonar and the First Men, Lady of the Great Green Forest, Breaker of Idiocy and Mother of Good Sense.

(who's too cool to ever sit and polish a throne anyway).

Basically this   Do you mind if I use it as a signature?

Out of the mentioned contenders, I'd say Asha or Arianne. Sansa I see her as a potential great queen, and Myrcella, she seems a sweet girl but we don't know enough about her yet.

[Little Miss Sunshine]

Myrcella would be great given some years and a bit of guidance.

And anyway, for me, any of those but Cersei and Dany (Melisandre doesn't even count as possible queen for me, nor does Jeyne).

[butterbumps!]

Winter, on 29 April 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

Dany as Queen and Sansa as Hand.

I'm sure this will result in the exponential growth of the olive and lemoncake commodities market.  

Val the Wildling Princess, on 29 April 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

Basically this   Do you mind if I use it as a signature?

It would be an honor, my Queen!

[etu]

ARYa_Nym, on 29 April 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

Margaery has the love of the people like Good Queen Alysanne who I think is the model queen but she's also is ruled by Mance.

Greatest typo ever.

[Queen Cersei I]

Dracarya, on 29 April 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

I don't believe Westeros will be united by the end of the series. I believe the North at least will be divided from the South. Arya would be a fantastic Queen in the North - she knows people, she knows how to connect with people, like you said, and she doesn't give a shit about wearing dresses and acting like a lady. She'd see and speak to the widllings as people, like Jon does, and let them settle in the north. She'd give them homes and jobs, but she'd also do what needed to be done if they stepped out of line. The North needs a hard ruler; Arya's it. Maybe not alone, seeing as she's so young, but she is certainly the best candidate. She wouldn't shy away from having Ramsay killed and flushing the disgusting creatures from her lands. She's fair, has a sense of justice, and she can only get better as time goes on. This is why I don't believe Sansa would make a good QinN - a Southern Queen, maybe, but she's barely got any of the North in her. Arya and Jon are the most Stark-like children, it's commented on in the books numerous times - that's important. Might be it's just important to give clues to Jon being Lyannas' son, but I also think it's important to show where Arya's going.

Alongside everything else, Nymeria and her pack of wolves would be a very good contribution to any army Arya might need to take back Winterfell. Once the northerners realise that Ramsay's bride is not Arya, and that the real Arya is back/coming back, they'd rally to her cause straight away.

So, once again, THE QUEEN IN THE NORTH!

Arya is probably my favorite female characters, however, it seems to me she'd be utterly ill suited to rule as queen. Furthermore, such a position would almost surely prove constricting, uncomfortable, and frustrating for her; and force her to have to often utterly repress her true nature. The result would be a passable queen and an utterly miserable Ayra.

A few issues with the "Arya for queen" scenario:

1. Asha is quick and bright and shows many talents. However, there is no indication that administrative duties or behind the scenes work is among them.

2. She is fiercely independent and spirited, yet I don't see her as a natural leader in the way that, say, Asha Greyjoy seems to be. Arya strikes me as neither a leader or follower, but more of a lone wolf-- not just unsuitable for a leader, but not really ideally built to work as part of any mainstream group in general.

3. She is upfront, honest, and I have a difficult time seeing her relishing (or even being able to put up with) the game of politics. Her sharp skills of observation and lack of illusions about the world around her would serve her well in Kings Landing; yet having to perform the duties of queen-- meeting with people, observing the courtesies, constantly hiding her feelings, etc.-- seems as though it would be both unnatural and deadening to her.

Even as queen in the North, Arya would have to play the game of politics, make nice with those she despised and, occasionally, compromise her sense of justice. In addition to not being adept at any of these things, I think that forcing herself to do them out of duty would cause a part of Arya to die, and cause a fair bit of unhappiness on her part.

Overall, I think she's a great character, but there's next to nothing to suggest that she is cut out to assume the role of Queen in the North. Personally, it seems to me that taking on this role would be even more restricting and constricting for her than the role of a highborn lady once was.

[Stannis the Stern]

Definitely not Dany, she's like the Sarah Palin of asoiaf, a mad woman who wants the Iron Throne. Maybe Margaery since she seems the most politically literate out of all them.

[FuzzyJAM]

ARYa_Nym, on 29 April 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

Not to be a debbie downer but I wonder if the North would even allow itself to be ruled by a female. I don't think it's a coincidence that Winterfell or the North has never been ruled by a woman for thousands of years.

I also noticed that the houses that we know that secretly practice First Night  happen to be Northern houses.

I don't think this place is as great for women as some might think but we don't have enough info on Northern female relations that I know of. I did notice that Arya seems to be similar to Northern girls. People usually say that Arya doesn't act right (AGoT period) but I don't think Alys or the Mormont women are that much different.

Do we know for sure that there has never been a Queen in the North?  Aside from Dorne, the North is (I think) the only place that has a lady running the show (Maege Mormont).  Considering she appears to have plenty of descendants, it seems unlikely that none of them would be male, so if it's a "Females only rule until they make some males to tell them what to do!", you'd think she'd be only acting for a grandson.  You may be right and the North may be as bad or worse than the rest of Westeros, but I don't think that's necessarily the case - a female "Stark" (Jeyne) has such pull as to lead northerners to support Bolton, which tells us something.

That said, I agree with QCI - the problem with Arya ruling would be that she'd hate it.

[Dracarya]

ARYa_Nym, on 29 April 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

Not to be a debbie downer but I wonder if the North would even allow itself to be ruled by a female. I don't think it's a coincidence that Winterfell or the North has never been ruled by a woman for thousands of years.

I also noticed that the houses that we know that secretly practice First Night  happen to be Northern houses.

I don't think this place is as great for women as some might think but we don't have enough info on Northern female relations that I know of. I did notice that Arya seems to be similar to Northern girls. People usually say that Arya doesn't act right (AGoT period) but I don't think Alys or the Mormont women are that much different.

That's a good point, actually. I'm not sure. I think the North will most definitely rise for a Stark, especially such an obvious Stark like Arya. I think if she proved she wouldn't take any shit, they'd be happy to follow her. She's not exactly a 'normal' woman - by that I mean she can fight, she's killed, she's not a 'lady' like Sansa, she can lead (albeit so far she's only led a small group, but boys have followed her), she's cunning, and I think these qualities will only get better as she gets older. But an obstacle would be getting the northern men to follow a woman, I agree.

Queen Cersei I, on 29 April 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

Arya is probably my favorite female characters, however, it seems to me she'd be utterly ill suited to rule as queen. Furthermore, such a position would almost surely prove constricting, uncomfortable, and frustrating for her; and force her to have to often utterly repress her true nature. The result would be a passable queen and an utterly miserable Ayra.

A few issues with the "Arya for queen" scenario:

1. Asha is quick and bright and shows many talents. However, there is no indication that administrative duties or behind the scenes work is among them.

2. She is fiercely independent and spirited, yet I don't see her as a natural leader in the way that, say, Asha Greyjoy seems to be. Arya strikes me as neither a leader or follower, but more of a lone wolf-- not just unsuitable for a leader, but not really ideally built to work as part of any mainstream group in general.

3. She is upfront, honest, and I have a difficult time seeing her relishing (or even being able to put up with) the game of politics. Her sharp skills of observation and lack of illusions about the world around her would serve her well in Kings Landing; yet having to perform the duties of queen-- meeting with people, observing the courtesies, constantly hiding her feelings, etc.-- seems as though it would be both unnatural and deadening to her.

Even as queen in the North, Arya would have to play the game of politics, make nice with those she despised and, occasionally, compromise her sense of justice. In addition to not being adept at any of these things, I think that forcing herself to do them out of duty would cause a part of Arya to die, and cause a fair bit of unhappiness on her part.

Overall, I think she's a great character, but there's next to nothing to suggest that she is cut out to assume the role of Queen in the North. Personally, it seems to me that taking on this role would be even more restricting and constricting for her than the role of a highborn lady once was.

Another good point, and I agree that by having to do those things, Arya would have to change a part of herself. I do, however, see the north following a woman like her, rather than a softer woman, like Sansa (not being rude about Sansa, just pointing out a difference in their characters). Personally, I don't see Daenerys taking control of the north, unless she does something good with those dragons of hers, like defending the kingdom from the Others. I think the north will only follow a strong, hard northerner, someone who doesn't shy away from the 'dirtier' things in life, someone who has a keen sense of justice and strong roots in the north.

I agree that Arya is more of a lone wolf, but she can lead if need be, and she can also follow. She was a lone wolf because she had to be, people deserted her, like Gendry, people died, like Yoren and Ned, and she's always done what she had to do to survive. She also knows what is right, and I believe that once she finds about Fake Arya and Ramsay, she will go nuts. I genuinely think there's so much more for Arya to do. She's so young, but she has the right tools to take back Winterfell and the north from the Boltons and the Ironborn. I agree that, as she is now, she wouldn't be very good at playing the game of politics, but with Sansa at her side, she could very well learn. You're probably right that having to do this would make her unhappy, but in order to get her home, the remnants of her family and her wolf back, not to mention justice for all the wrong that has been done to her and her family, I think she'd see it as a small price to pay.

[Baitac]

Sorry, people. I'm one of those who want a Targaryen, Stark, Lannister triumvirate. I am hoping that they will be done with kings and queens and rule together as a council. My council would include Dany, Jon & Tyrion. Therir support staff would  be extensive and include representatives from all the subgroups and ethnicities. Yay! Life in Westeros would be perfect. Being that we are dealing with GRRM, who knows what the hell will happen. Bleh!

[Bright Blue Eyes]

ARYa_Nym, on 29 April 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

Not to be a debbie downer but I wonder if the North would even allow itself to be ruled by a female. I don't think it's a coincidence that Winterfell or the North has never been ruled by a woman for thousands of years.

I also noticed that the houses that we know that secretly practice First Night  happen to be Northern houses.

I don't think this place is as great for women as some might think but we don't have enough info on Northern female relations that I know of. I did notice that Arya seems to be similar to Northern girls. People usually say that Arya doesn't act right (AGoT period) but I don't think Alys or the Mormont women are that much different.

That's a bit of a stretch. Just because we don't know of any female Queens in the North doesn't mean there weren't some. We know about ten Kings in the North by name, and if the number ofLCs of the Nights Watch is comparable, that makes 1%.

And that we know only Northern Houses to practice the First Night speaks more of the detail on Northern Houses than anything else. The North is the only region where we even have a complete list of T2 houses.

The Mormonts, Lady Dustin, the Shewolves of Winterfell are Northern examples for female leaders and the Wildling neighbours feature gender equality.

But Arya would suffer as queen. It isn't in her personality.

[ARYa_Nym]

FuzzyJAM, on 29 April 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

Do we know for sure that there has never been a Queen in the North?  Aside from Dorne, the North is (I think) the only place that has a lady running the show (Maege Mormont).  Considering she appears to have plenty of descendants, it seems unlikely that none of them would be male, so if it's a "Females only rule until they make some males to tell them what to do!", you'd think she'd be only acting for a grandson.  You may be right and the North may be as bad or worse than the rest of Westeros, but I don't think that's necessarily the case - a female "Stark" (Jeyne) has such pull as to lead northerners to support Bolton, which tells us something.

That said, I agree with QCI - the problem with Arya ruling would be that she'd hate it.

I don't think it's ever been said in the books but we know from this SSM:

Quote

[Have there ever been a ruling Lady of Winterfell or Queen of Winter?]
No. Although I do hope to someday write the Dunk & Egg story where they travel to Winterfell and meet the She-Wolves.

http://www.westeros....orth_and_Sansa/


I think "Arya" only supports it. Instead of letting her rule Winterfell they marry her off immediately. This is probably how there was never a ruling woman in the North.

& by ruling woman I mean as in ruled the entire North either as Warden of the North or as Queen in the North.

I'm not saying that the North is worse than other places or is even bad relative to other areas. I'm just saying it's not Dorne and even Dorne is not some egalitarian utopia.

Edited by ARYa_Nym, 29 April 2012 - 01:34 PM.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Myrcella

Queen Cersei I, on 29 April 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

Though this is sort of cheating, I think the Queen of Thornes would be a potentially great ruler. Unlike many of the ruling figures thus far, she has shown both administrative ability and political savvy. She appears to have morals in a way that say, LF does not

She seems to have precisely the same morals Petyr does, as far as I can tell.  *Lets not forget she framed, poor sweet, innocent Tyrion so she could steal marry Sansa to her crippled dog boy and steal her claim.  


Also she wasn't a choice. There are many better choices than the one's given.


Catelyn
Brienne
Lady Dustin
Val
Genna Lannister
Lady Smallwood
Sybell Spicer
Maege Mormont
Alysane Mormont
Lyanna Mormont
Wylla Manderly
Arya Stark
Sarella Sand
Missandei


* ETA

Edited by Lord Littlefinger's Lash, 29 April 2012 - 01:59 PM.

[Kung Fu Kiddo]

Queen Stoneheart, first of her name, Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men, Lady of the Seven Kingdoms, Protector of the Realm, and Lady of Hempen Rope Revenge.

One a serious note, out of all the options the OP listed....hrmm....Asha and Arianne I think are among the best candidates. They have really good potential, just need to tweak a few aspects of their personalities to make a good match for the throne. Sansa and Myrcella would be good but they need time to grow into their political savvy.

Margaery...well, all we know is that she has some cunning and has been married off to 3 kings, but that doesn't necessarily make her queen material. Melisandre....I'm not even sure why she's an option, haha. Hell freaking no to Dany. Cersei, well, we've seen her queen potential.

Jeyne was kind of a queen for like...half a year. Doesn't really seem to have what it takes to be queen of the seven kingdoms...and Shireen...I'm not sure people would bend the knee to a child with greyscale. But like Sansa and Myrcella, she could be good, she just has to grow up some and keep learning how to rule.

Edited by Kung Fu Kiddo, 29 April 2012 - 01:36 PM.

[Silver Spearwife]

Of the ladies in the title, I'd like Myrcella best. I mean, Maggy says she's doomed, but if you ignore that.

Not Cersei, for obvious reasons. Sansa may be learning the game, but I don't think she has it in her to rule. And Dany's track record isn't in her favor. Myrcella's young, but she's kind, what little we've seen suggests that she's quite intelligent, and I think her new deformity will give her that Tyrion-esque brusqueness that she'd need to keep her grounded, much as it did for her uncle/father. In other words, she's got potential.

In general, Margaery's proven quite good at the task. She's very preoccupied with the smallfolk and keeping up court appearances, which are pretty important. The smallfolk love her, and if the King Bread scene is any indication, that's pretty damned important.

Arianne's not a bad choice, but she'd need a king who would be okay with her hands-on attitude. Margaery's got that "First Lady" sort of thing going on, whereas Arianne is more like an actual ruler. So I suppose it depends on who the king is and what kind of queen he requires by his side.

[IronSuitor]

Perhaps it's my male privilege showing, but I originally read the thread title as asking who you would want as your queen if you were king.

Either way the answer's Margaery.