300 replies to this topic

[Karelian]

Queen Sansa of course. I'm pretty sure that Sansa would be a good queen should she grow a little bit older. Hopefully she'll marry some Targ (Aegon if he's real or maybe Jon, although that'd be unlikely). Unfortunately I don't think that we're going to have such a sweet ending.

Dany is mad and incompetent and Cersei has already ruined her chances. The other candidates.. nah.

[Lady Hodor]

@ Lord Littlefinger's Lash

I like the idea of Arya stealing a king's face, but NOT marrying Euron. Euron is HORRID. Arya's too cool for him.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Dracarya, on 29 April 2012 - 02:37 PM, said:

Oh I see, sorry. As to who could step in right now and keep the throne, I guess I'd go for Asha. But you're right, I don't think any of them could rule the entire Seven Kingdoms in peace. Something's gotta give, which is why I think the North at least will break away and be it's own separate kingdom.



What, why Euron?

  He's also a faceless man, Duh.  

“I dreamt I saw a shadow with a burning heart butchering a golden stag, aye. I dreamt of a man without a face, waiting on a bridge that swayed and swung. On his shoulder perched a drowned crow with seaweed hanging from his wings. I dreamt of a roaring river and a woman that was a fish. Dead she drifted, with red tears on her cheeks, but when her eyes did open, oh, I woke from terror. All this I dreamt, and more. Do you have gifts for me, to pay me for my dreams?”

Quote

No need to kill Tommen either, he's a good kid. Leave him be!

Who said anything about killing Tommen? He'll be long since usurped.  Ser Pounce or Lady Whiskers will likely do for him.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Lady Hodor, on 29 April 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

@ Lord Littlefinger's Lash I like the idea of Arya stealing a king's face, but NOT marrying Euron. Euron is HORRID. Arya's too cool for him.

Euron who burned the Lannister Fleet in Lannisport?  Euron who sailed the smoking sea and found a dragon horn and dragon egg.  Euron who either is or hired a faceless man to rid himself of Balon?  Euron who won the Kingsmoot?  Euron who sacked the shield islands, nearly sacked old town, is threatening the Highgarden, the Arbor and Slaver's Bay at once?  Euron who captured and brought to heel the Warlocks of Qarth?  Who was likely visited by Bloodraven? Who may well be a Greenseer, himself?

If a thousand ships set sail, three hundred may reach the far side of the narrow sea... and then what? Lys will not welcome us, nor will Volantis. Where will you find fresh water, food? The first storm will scatter us across half the earth.”

A smile played across Euron’s blue lips. “I am the storm, my lord. The first storm, and the last. I have taken the Silence on longer voyages than this, and ones far more hazardous. Have you forgotten? I have sailed the Smoking Sea and seen Valyria.”

“No godless man—”

“—may sit the Seastone Chair, aye.” Euron glanced about the tent. “As it happens as I have oft sat upon the Seastone Chair of late. It raises no objections.” His smiling eye was glittering. “Who knows more of gods than I? Horse gods and fire gods, gods made of gold with gemstone eyes, gods carved of cedar wood, gods chiseled into mountains, gods of empty air... I know them all. I have seen their peoples garland them with flowers, and shed the blood of goats and bulls and children in their names. And I have heard the prayers, in half a hundred tongues. Cure my withered leg, make the maiden love me, grant me a healthy son. Save me, succor me, make me wealthy... protect me! Protect me from mine enemies, protect me from the darkness, protect me from the crabs inside my belly, from the horselords, from the slavers, from the sellswords at my door. Protect me from the Silence.” He laughed. “Godless? Why, Aeron, I am the godliest man ever to raise sail! You serve one god, Damphair, but I have served ten thousand. From Ib to Asshai, when men see my sails, they pray.”

The priest raised a bony finger. “They pray to trees and golden idols and goat-headed abominations. False gods...”

“Just so,” said Euron, “and for that sin I kill them all. I spill their blood upon the sea and sow their screaming women with my seed. Their little gods cannot stop me, so plainly they are false gods. I am more devout than even you, Aeron. Perhaps it should be you who kneels to me for blessing.”

The Red Oarsman laughed loudly at that, and the others took their lead from him.

“Fools,” said the priest, “fools and thralls and blind men, that is what you are. Do you not see what stands before you?”

“A king,” said Quellon Humble.

The Damphair spat, and strode out into the night.

When he was gone, the Crow’s Eye turned his smiling eye upon Victarion. “Lord Captain, have you no greeting for a brother long away? Nor you, Asha? How fares your lady mother?”

“Poorly,” Asha said. “Some man made her a widow.”

Euron shrugged. “I had heard the Storm God swept Balon to his death. Who is this man who slew him? Tell me his name, niece, so I might revenge myself on him.”

Asha got to her feet. “You know his name as well as I. Three years you were gone from us, and yet Silence returns within a day of my lord father’s death.”

“Do you accuse me?” Euron asked mildly.

“Should I?” The sharpness in Asha’s voice made Victarion frown. It was dangerous to speak so to the Crow’s Eye, even when his smiling eye was shining with amusement.

“Do I command the winds?” the Crow’s Eye asked his pets.

“No, Your Grace,” said Orkwood of Orkmont.

“No man commands the winds,” said Germund Botley.

“Would that you did,” the Red Oarsman said. “You would sail wherever you liked and never be becalmed.”

“There you have it, from the mouths of three brave men,” Euron said. “The Silence was at sea when Balon died. If you doubt an uncle’s word, I give you leave to ask my crew.”....

.....“IRONMEN,” said Euron Greyjoy, “you have heard my horn. Now hear my words. I am Balon’s brother, Quellon’s eldest living son. Lord Vickon’s blood is in my veins, and the blood of the Old Kraken. Yet I have sailed farther than any of them. Only one living kraken has never known defeat. Only one has never bent his knee. Only one has sailed to Asshai by the Shadow, and seen wonders and terrors beyond imagining...”

“If you liked the Shadow so well, go back there,” called out pink-cheeked Qarl the Maid, one of Asha’s champions.

The Crow’s Eye ignored him. “My little brother would finish Balon’s war, and claim the north. My sweet niece would give us peace and pinecones.” His blue lips twisted in a smile. “Asha prefers victory to defeat. Victarion wants a kingdom, not a few scant yards of earth. From me, you shall have both.

“Crow’s Eye, you call me. Well, who has a keener eye than the crow? After every battle the crows come in their hundreds and their thousands to feast upon the fallen. A crow can espy death from afar. And I say that all of Westeros is dying. Those who follow me will feast until the end of their days.

“We are the ironborn, and once we were conquerors. Our writ ran everywhere the sound of the waves was heard. My brother would have you be content with the cold and dismal north, my niece with even less... but I shall give you Lannisport. Highgarden. The Arbor. Oldtown. The riverlands and the Reach, the kingswood and the rainwood, Dorne and the marches, the Mountains of the Moon and the Vale of Arryn, Tarth and the Stepstones. I say we take it all! I say, we take Westeros.” He glanced at the priest. “All for the greater glory of our Drowned God, to be sure.”

For half a heartbeat even Aeron was swept away by the boldness of his words. The priest had dreamed the same dream, when first he’d seen the red comet in the sky. We shall sweep over the green lands with fire and sword, root out the seven gods of the septons and the white trees of the northmen...

“Crow’s Eye,” Asha called, “did you leave your wits at Asshai? If we cannot hold the north—and we cannot—how can we win the whole of the Seven Kingdoms?”

“Why, it has been done before. Did Balon teach his girl so little of the ways of war? Victarion, our brother’s daughter has never heard of Aegon the Conqueror, it would seem.”

“Aegon?” Victarion crossed his arms against his armored chest. “What has the Conqueror to do with us?”

“I know as much of war as you do, Crow’s Eye,” Asha said. “Aegon Targaryen conquered Westeros with dragons.”

“And so shall we,” Euron Greyjoy promised. “That horn you heard I found amongst the smoking ruins that were Valyria, where no man has dared to walk but me. You heard its call, and felt its power. It is a dragon horn, bound with bands of red gold and Valyrian steel graven with enchantments. The dragonlords of old sounded such horns, before the Doom devoured them. With this horn, ironmen, I can bind dragons to my will.”

Asha laughed aloud. “A horn to bind goats to your will would be of more use, Crow’s Eye. There are no more dragons.”

“Again, girl, you are wrong. There are three, and I know where to find them. Surely that is worth a driftwood crown.”

“EURON!” shouted Left-Hand Lucas Codd.

“EURON! CROW’S EYE! EURON!” cried the Red Oarsman.

What else do you need to know? Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained? WHAT MORE CAN I SAY!?!

Eur n! Eur n! Eur n!

[Nausicaä]

- Cersei — There's absolutely no way she'll still be Queen by the end of the series and I don't want it for her either.
- Myrcella — I can see her as a queen, a consort to Aegon or a queen regnant, crowned in the Westerlands after Tommen died. Ultimately, I think queenship would end badly for her. Thanks to her familiy (blood family, the Lannisters, and her "lovely" "uncle" Stannis), she can never be safe while staying in the public eye.
- Daenerys — Meh. I'm not against her ruling the Seven kingdoms, but I'm not particularly for it either. I'll see what Martin does with her.
- Sansa — SANSA FOR QUEEN OF WINTER! My favorite candidate.
- Jeyne Westerling — I don't care about Jeyne. I think her and Robb's marriage was something thgat should have never happened and I probably would be disappointed if she has his child and ends up ruling WF or the North through him, instead of other Starks. I would take Arya as a queen before Jeyne and I think Arya would not make a good ruler.
I think there's zero chance she's Cersei's younger queen.
- Margery — I can see her with Aegon (maybe even Stannis), but in the end I want her to find happiness with some regular noble guy and for her family to stay the hell away from the throne.
- Shireen — Poor girl is in danger. Even if she survives Melisandre/the wildlings while Stannis is away, when he's dead no one is going to fight for her.
- Melisandre — Blergh.
- Arianne — My only objection to that is that it would be sad if she had to give up Dorne, she loves it so much and wants it so badly... But she could live with it. She would make a good ruler and it would be interesting.
- Asha, rightful heir to the Seastone Chair. — Fingers crossed for her to become the ruler of the Islands, but she's not going to be doing anything more than that. The North, the Vale, the Westerlands and the Dorne bowing to a Greyjoy? As if.

Ser Wun Wun, on 29 April 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

Depends on what kind of Queen we are talking about: One who actually rules, or one who is basically a "trophy" Queen who takes a backseat to her King.

Ruling Queen:  Myrcella showed potential.  If she had a regent for a few years, when she grew up she probably would have had a mind for ruling. She always came across as mature for her age, gentler than her mother and she was very good at cyvasse.  I'm aware that is kind of flimsy evidence, but unfortunately I don't have a lot to work with here.

Trophy Queen:  Sansa, the scene where she stands up to calm the people in Maegor's holdfast during the BoB was a good indication of what kind of queen she would have been imo.   Margaery Tyrell was also doing pretty good at it, her and Tommen might have actually been a good pair if Cersei hadn't wrecked things.

"Trophy queen" sounds kinda condescending. If you mean queen consort by that, she doesn't have to take a backseat to her King, she can very well be his equal and have a strong position/influence. See Good queen Alysanne for an example. If she does become a queen at all, that's what I see Sansa doing (same for Myrcella).

Lord Littlefinger, on 29 April 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

Also she wasn't a choice. There are many better choices than the one's given.

Catelyn

Cat would have made the best queen.

[Dracarya]

Lord Littlefinger, on 29 April 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

He's also a faceless man, Duh.  

“I dreamt I saw a shadow with a burning heart butchering a golden stag, aye. I dreamt of a man without a face, waiting on a bridge that swayed and swung. On his shoulder perched a drowned crow with seaweed hanging from his wings. I dreamt of a roaring river and a woman that was a fish. Dead she drifted, with red tears on her cheeks, but when her eyes did open, oh, I woke from terror. All this I dreamt, and more. Do you have gifts for me, to pay me for my dreams?”

Who said anything about killing Tommen? He'll be long since usurped.  Ser Pounce or Lady Whiskers will likely do for him.

Pardon, I thought you said 'kill the king', meaning Tommen.

Hmm. But Euron.. he's not such a nice man. I don't see Arya with him. I 'ship' Arya and Gendry, if anyone. She will marry for love, and bring the Stark-Baratheon friendship back.

[Darth Arya]

I would like to say Dany, but only if she starts being more a true Targaryen "Fire and Blood" etc, if she isn't then I guess out of the other choices Cersei.

[ARYa_Nym]

Wentwarth, on 29 April 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

"Trophy queen" sounds kinda condescending. If you mean queen consort by that, she doesn't have to take a backseat to her King, she can very well be his equal and have a strong position/influence. See Good queen Alysanne for an example. If she does become a queen at all, that's what I see Sansa doing (same for Myrcella).

True a consort wouldn't have to but it depends on her king. Alysanne was a special case and normally that wouldn't have happened. Alysanne and Jaehaerys had a special relationship from what I've read.

Quote

Her relationship with King Jaehaerys was always very close. She was his most trusted counselor and his right hand, and often wore a slimmer, more feminine version of his crown at court.

http://www.westeros....e_and_Rhaenyra/


Daeron II and Aegon I's wives had a lot of power as well but most didn't.

Cersei appears to have a lot of power but she's a queen under the Baratheon dynasty and I imagine that her being a Lannister was a big factor on how much influence she was able to obtain.

Edited by ARYa_Nym, 29 April 2012 - 03:26 PM.

[Independent George]

What, nobody's mentioned Olenna Tyrell yet?

All hail the Queen of Thorns!!!

[James Arryn]

Lady Hodor, on 29 April 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

- Cersie
- Myrcella
- Daenerys
- Sansa
- Jeyne
- Margery
- Shireen
- Melisandre
- Arianne
- Asha

Of these, I'd initially eliminate Jeyne because I have no sense of what kind of Queen she'd be, Cersei because she's spiraling into dementia, and Myrcella because she's too young/have no real sense, though I would say she's shown nothing so far that would make me not want her to eventually rule.

So of the remainder, I think Cat has weaknesses but would be a very able ruler, Dany has strengths and weaknesses, but I also attribute much of the later to plot paralysis, Sansa is kind of a non-factor for me because she's been imo pretty much anesthetized since all the KL drama, so I have no real feel for who she is or how she'd operate besides what happened before that, and that wasn't great, Margery I think would be good, but she's a little young, Shireen I also know so little about, seems young, Mel could be awesome, could be terrible, too hard to tell because we have no idea what her motivations/secrets are, Arianne I like, and think would be ok, but she's also prone to rash mistakes, and Asha seems pretty capable all around, though I think she mishandled the Kingsmoot situation.

I'd like to nominate Selyse, btw. Aside from zeal and insecurity, she's seemed pretty decent to me. Not great or anything, but capable of being a solid leader.

[James Arryn]

Independent George, on 29 April 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

What, nobody's mentioned Olenna Tyrell yet?

All hail the Queen of Thorns!!!

She'd be the best but for a presumed short reign, and/or senility before same.

[Ice Turtle]

I think that there are few reasons why Sansa wouldn't make a good queen - she doesn't like danger and isn't  really ambitious besides being too soft or maybe good natured. She would be as unhappy as a queen as Ned was as the Hand. And after everything she got trough peaceful life is what she wants the most.

Asha seems rather good - her problem is that she is too ironborn and not ironborn enough (thinks differently as that goddamned sorry folk) at the same time.

I'm not sure Arianne would have patience to deal with radicalized Faith or how much she knows about culture outside Dorne.

Myrcella is young but shows a lot of potential and have an advantage of growing up at court.  

Arya would make a better hand than queen. She reminds me a little of female version of Bloodraven. She may make a good queen in the north or beyond the wall. What she needs the most is grow up from her black and white view of world and take few lessons about forgiving. Her best point is that she had that stubbornness and hardness that will be needed to deal with this Winter.

Jeyne Westerling - what the hell Robb saw in her?

Shireen the Dragonfood -  who knows, she is older than Myrcella, but seems more a child

Dany and Cersei - good and bad intentions that are ending the same way - in blood and fire. But why not if you want to see the spectacle of kingdom burning.

Queen of thornes and Margery - opportunists, but what politician isn't? Good enough.

[Mark Antony]

Sansa - Queen in the North

Edited by WuTangWesteros, 29 April 2012 - 03:15 PM.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

I think we'll all learn a lot more about Stark women in charge after the next D&E story, the She-Wolves of Winterfell.

Note that Lady Dustin has run her House apparently unopposed for years, and that unless Lord Manderly's son gets busy and sires a male heir, the successor to that enormous and wealthy house will be a woman.

In the future, the only choice for queen is Arya.  Arya, Arya, Arya.

She's the only girl, besides Shireen, that we see getting an education -- and.  She's learning languages, realpolitik, spycraft, and chemistry (sort of).  When Arya was getting a conventional education she was good at arithmetic (or at least better than Sansa).  She's been to at least one of the free cities and so been exposed to different cultures and different systems of government. Arya's been a witness to war and has always been sympathetic to, and a defender of, the smallfolk.  Even when very young she expressed interest in governing to her father (who told her she was going to marry a Lord, not be one. Thanks Dad!)  She's bold, courageous, and intellectually curious – all at the age of 11.  She can only get better.  And heaven help anyone who messes with her – she has the potential to make Lord Tywin look like a wuss.

Her little council:

Hand:  Arianne Martell; Olenna Tyrel would be the best, but she can't live forever.
Lord Commander of the King's Guard:  Brienne of Tarth
Master of Laws:  Maege Mormont or Wylla Manderly (little girl knows injustice when she sees it)
Master of Whispers: Nymeria Sand
Master of Ships:  (no brainer) Asha Greyjoy
Master of Coin:  The Widow of Volantis
The Grand Maester:  Samwell Tarly (got to get a man in there somewhere)
Master of Heath, Education and Welfare:  Lady Smallwood (I just like her)
Ambassador to the Kingdom Beyond the Wall:  Val

Dracarya, on 29 April 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

Hmm. But Euron.. he's not such a nice man. I don't see Arya with him. I 'ship' Arya and Gendry, if anyone. She will marry for love, and bring the Stark-Baratheon friendship back.

Noooooooooooo!!!!  Remember the dead dire wolf with the puppies?  It died with when it was gored by a stag. That was a portent, folks.  Starks and Baratheons Do. Not. Mix.  Arya's like Lyanna; what did Lyanna do when faced with marrying a Baratheon?  She found herself a white-haired pretty boy.  Not to mention the facts that Gendry is a bastard and can't unite families, he's a follower of R'hllor, he's already abandoned her once in favor of the BWB, etc., etc., etc.  No. No. No.

Arya is Ned's daughter.  Ned was in love with Ashara Dayne, wanted Ashara Dayne, may  have sired her child, and then lost her.  So the families that should be united are Dayne and Stark.  And geeze, Edric is already called "Ned."  Arya/Edric is the way to go.  

Edited by Sand Snake No. 9, 29 April 2012 - 03:43 PM.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Dracarya, on 29 April 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

Pardon, I thought you said 'kill the king', meaning Tommen.

Hmm. But Euron.. he's not such a nice man. I don't see Arya with him. I 'ship' Arya and Gendry, if anyone. She will marry for love, and bring the Stark-Baratheon friendship back.

That's true. He's not a nice man.  Fortunately Arya isn't a nice girl-lady-woman.

The dwarf woman studied her with dim red eyes. “I see you,” she whispered. “I see you, wolf child. Blood child. I thought it was the lord who smelled of death...” She began to sob, her little body shaking. “You are cruel to come to my hill, cruel. I gorged on grief at Summerhall, I need none of yours. Begone from here, dark heart. Begone!”

There was such fear in her voice that Arya took a step backward, wondering if the woman was mad. “Don’t frighten the child,” Thoros protested. “There’s no harm in her.”

Lem Lemoncloak’s finger went to his broken nose. “Don’t be so bloody sure of that.”

“Is there gold hidden in the village?” she shouted as she drove the blade up through his back. “Is there silver? Gems?” She stabbed twice more. “Is there food? Where is Lord Beric?” She was on top of him by then, still stabbing. “Where did he go? How many men were with him? How many knights? How many bowmen? How many, how many, how many, how many, how many, how many? is there gold in the village?”

Her hands were red and sticky when Sandor dragged her off him.

“Do you mean to make me beg, bitch? Do it! The gift of mercy... avenge your little Michael...”

“Mycah.” Arya stepped away from him. “You don’t deserve the gift of mercy.”

The Hound watched her saddle Craven through eyes bright with fever. Not once did he attempt to rise and stop her. But when she mounted, he said,

“A real wolf would finish a wounded animal.”

Maybe some real wolves will find you, Arya thought. Maybe they’ll smell you when the sun goes down. Then he would learn what wolves did to dogs. “You shouldn’t have hit me with an axe,” she said. “You should have saved my mother.” She turned her horse and rode away from him, and never looked back once.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Lord Littlefinger, on 29 April 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

That's true. He's not a nice man.  Fortunately Arya isn't a nice girl-lady-woman.

<snip>

Yeah.  Ain't she grand?

[Dracarya]

Sand Snake No. 9, on 29 April 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:

Noooooooooooo!!!!  Remember the dead dire wolf with the puppies?  It died with when it was gored by a stag. That was a portent, folks.  Starks and Baratheons Do. Not. Mix.  Arya's like Lyanna; what did Lyanna do when faced with marrying a Baratheon?  She found herself a white-haired pretty boy.  Not to mention the facts that Gendry is a bastard and can't unite families, he's a follower of R'hllor, he's already abandoned her once in favor of the BWB, etc., etc., etc.  No. No. No.

Arya is Ned's daughter.  Ned was in love with Ashara Dayne, wanted Ashara Dayne, may  have sired her child, and then lost her.  So the families that should be united are Dayne and Stark.  And geeze, Edric is already called "Ned."  Arya/Edric is the way to go.  

Well, when you put it like that But maybe Arya and Gendry can change the whole stags-destroying-wolves thing

Lord Littlefinger, on 29 April 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

That's true. He's not a nice man.  Fortunately Arya isn't a nice girl-lady-woman.
<snipped>

What a gal. This is why she'd make such a fantastic QinT

[FuzzyJAM]

Arya kills in self-defence or as a form of justice.  The only time she murders someone is in Braavos for the Faceless Men, and she at least tries to ensure he deserves it first.  She's really not done many "evil" things, as Euron likely has.



I recognise the distinction doesn't matter to some people, but to others (e.g. me) it does.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

FuzzyJAM, on 29 April 2012 - 03:42 PM, said:

Arya kills in self-defence or as a form of justice. The only time she murders someone is in Braavos for the Faceless Men, and she at least tries to ensure he deserves it first. She's really not done many "evil" things, as Euron likely has. I recognise the distinction doesn't matter to some people, but to others (e.g. me) it does.

Murder? What murder? She gave him a gift.  The sacrament of the Many Faced One.

“A knight’s a sword with a horse. The rest, the vows and the sacred oils and the lady’s favors, they’re silk ribbons tied round the sword. Maybe the sword’s prettier with ribbons hanging off it, but it will kill you just as dead. Well, bugger your ribbons, and shove your swords up your arses. I’m the same as you. The only difference is, I don’t lie about what I am. So, kill me, but don’t call me a murderer while you stand there telling each other that your shit don’t stink. You hear me?”

[James Arryn]

Lord Littlefinger, on 29 April 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

Murder? What murder? She gave him a gift.  

Sometimes your posts make me feel very generous.



(TOTALLY KIDDING. Just couldn't resist the line.)