[Book Spoilers] EP 207 Discussion

[Qwop22]

So did anyone else notice during the preview for episode 18, it said only two episodes left? Uh, I am pretty sure there's three episodes left! lol

[MyGiantofLannister]

I loved the theme at the end, fits it.

The changes were well-made though.

I loved this episode just like all the others.

More Rickon and Hodor!!!!

This episode made me have a thing for Ygrette though

[Ser Joe of House Targaryen]

Enjoyed this episode so much. I am now completely over the fact that they are deviating from the books. The show and the books are two different animals, deal with it. Frankly, I think the writers are so capable. Yes, it is weird seeing Arya and Tywin have these interludes, but its just so damn entertaining. And now Dany has a real, serious reason to have Drogon burn the House of the Undying to the ground! Cant wait to see that. :devil:

[Lord Godric]

I loved the Catelyn/Jaime dynamic and think it was a good decision to move it up to this episode. The rest of the episode fell a little flat. I'm entirely confused about whats happening in Qarth, though I don't exactly hate it (but that may be because I don't know what happened).

They're doing the Theon at Winterfell part nicely, I think, although they made it relatively obvious that those were not Bran and Rickon's bodies. Besides the Catelyn/Jaime, Winterfell, and the quick Tyrion/Cersei scenes I'm undecided about the rest of the episode.

[ckal]

I was a little surprised that They showed Catelyn about to free Jaime before she 'finds out' about Bran and Rickon being killed by Theon.

WOuld have made her decision as a desperate and depressed mother that much more powerful.

[aswethinkweis]

Cercei is a crazy bitch, Tywin is an asshole. He is also smart as heck. He would definitely suspect that she is Arya.

I hope Jon still has to kill halfhand, otherwise, whats his excuse?

The plot changes I can deal with, but why change the characters personality. I enjoyed how much I hated Cersei and Tywin in the books.

They ended the episode in a good spot though

Edited May 14, 2012 by aswethinkweis

[ckal]

I loved the Catelyn/Jaime dynamic and think it was a good decision to move it up to this episode. The rest of the episode fell a little flat. I'm entirely confused about whats happening in Qarth, though I don't exactly hate it (but that may be because I don't know what happened).

They're doing the Theon at Winterfell part nicely, I think, although they made it relatively obvious that those were not Bran and Rickon's bodies. Besides the Catelyn/Jaime, Winterfell, and the quick Tyrion/Cersei scenes I'm undecided about the rest of the episode.

My brother figured it out instantly, that the two bodies weren't Bran and Rickon.

They need to give Jaime something to do so I think it's a good idea to have moved his story along a bit.

Jon Snow has been completely wasted the last episode and a half.

Dany's story certainly has a lot of twists and turns right now. The House of the Undying should be very interesting.

[House Snow]

Catelyn was just awesome this episode. She totally pulled off being formindable. Really like show catelyn better than book catelyn. SEriously who cares that Jaimie killed a random guy who is barely related to him. It was nowhere near as bad as people were making it out to be.

[ckal]

I hope Jon still has to kill halfhand, otherwise, whats his excuse?

Judging by the preview, it looks like they will have captured the halfhand and force Jon to kill him, or the halfhand finds him. Either way, Jon's 'turncloak' act will seem completely underwhelming. Why they decided to have Jon Snow chase Ygritte for 2 episodes instead of go off with Halfhand and everything makes no sense to me.

[Trebla]

HA! I called Jon Snow getting "blue balls" last week and Ygritte confirms. :P It was a good scene between the two because while her teasing is fun, it re-established Jon's vows and shows the diiferences bewteen the Watch and the Free People.

Very excited to hear the Mountain mention the BwB. I'm not quite sure what Tywin's endgame is with his treatment of Arya. But because the actors have such good chemistry and it gives new viewers some exposition, I can dig it.

I do like the writers putting the Karstarks in now rather than last season. It's fresher this way.

Good episode overall. I might have to just put in my sig "It's an adaptation, it's not going to be completely faithful to the book!"

eta: Forgot to finish a point.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Trebla

[Fez]

So did anyone else notice during the preview for episode 18, it said only two episodes left? Uh, I am pretty sure there's three episodes left! lol

Yeah I saw that. I thought there was going to be another tag with "until the final episode" but nope, they just left it like that. Maybe the promo folks are so excited about the Blackwater they forgot there's another episode after that?

Anyway as for this episode, its a mixed bag. I liked almost all the individual parts but I thought the episode as a whole was just a little underwhelming; possibly due to a noticeable lack of Tyrion until near the end. I like the Jon/Ygritte interaction but I'm just not sure how they are going to have that story go in a place that makes sense. On the other hand I'm totally on board with the Qarth changes. Pyat Pree is nuts and since none of it really matters in the end I really like having a storyline that I have no idea where its going. Tywin/Arya was fun, although I'm ready for her storyline to start to move forward again. Theon's still such a shit; also I think they made it very clear that those bodies aren't really Bran and Rickon. I'm so glad Jaime is back in the story again too; and he knocked his scenes outta the park. I agree though that it would've made more sense for his scene with Cat to wait until she heard about Bran and Rickon.

[Perin Stone]

Did I misunderstand? Did it say only 2 more episodes left?

It did. Are we sure there is an episode 10?

[House Snow]

I sort of wish the bodies had been more recognizable, but it was going to be a prettty hard scene to pull off.

[ThePickler]

I am actually enjoying the Quarth storyline more than the one in the book. The House of Undying scene in the COK felt like an anvil fell on your head. In the show the capabilities of the warlocks are being shown more so that should help soften the blow.

Overall it was my favorite episode of the season.

[Magic 8 Ball]

My wife, who is a non-book reader, figured out Bran and Rickon aren't dead immediately.

That's my only thumbs down.

Otherwise, love the massive story changes for Dany, she needed it.

Other changes sounded worse in text (spoiler wise) than they seemed on screen. Liking it so far. My books are my books, and my show is my show. Deal with it.

It's also nice for once that my wife asks me what is going on, and I can honestly say "I have no idea".

[Istari]

Cercei is a crazy bitch, Tywin is an asshole. He is also smart as heck. He would definitely suspect that she is Arya.

I hope Jon still has to kill halfhand, otherwise, whats his excuse?

The plot changes I can deal with, but why change the characters personality. I enjoyed how much I hated Cersei and Tywin in the books

i agree - plot changes (while I certainly do not like them) I can get over - most of them are for the sake of time and maintaining the momentum of the story. BUT when they alter the essence of a character's nature? That I cannot accept. Though thankfully, we haven't had too many departures from the personalities we read in the novels.

I think they've done a good job with Ygritte, despite all of this 'where are my brothers/you are my hostage' nonsense.

The final scene at Winterfell was well done, in my opinion. And Maester Luwin's scream at the end was absolutely heart breaking.

I know I've already complained about this... but I cannot accept that Lord Tywin and Arya would have a relationship of this kind - and him implying that he knows about her noble birth? What was that about?!

Cersei is too sympathetic - another point that someone has already mentioned, but I agree with.

The Cat/Jaime relationship (so far...) has been somewhat true too the essence of their relationship in ACOK

Dany...oh Dany.... why have they portrayed her so...unqueenly? Though, I find the Qarth changes very fun

Overall, great television, but a mediocre adaptation

Edited May 14, 2012 by istari

[Cheese Pudding]

Now the House of the Undying will be good, the visions are coming!

I want to see what will they do concerning:

Tyrion's chain

Qhorin's death

The first because we didn't see any other move from Tyrion, except the Wildfire.

The second because Jon will be presented to Rattleshirt next week, so how will he meet Qhorin, talk to him and be ambushed? I don't want to see Jon betraying the NW like this (pretending right away), it was not the way that happened in the books.

[Carne]

New Mountain still disappoints me. Comes off as your average Lannister guard.

[AnikaUnderfoot]

So I don't think I mind the show getting off track, I actually kind of like that I don't know exactly whats going to happen next.

Jon/Ygritte, while entertaining (I love her blue-ball quips!) is going in a direction I'm entirely not sure of. I'm just worried they might have Jon turncloack for real, not his storyline double-agent plot.

Glad Sansa got some much needed (imo) screentime! Thought she played her panic perfectly. Glad to see Shae wasn't holding the knife to her throat (as I had thought from the preview from last week).

I do like the Tywin/Arya scenes, although she is completely giving herself away, and Tywin knows it. Not sure how thats going to work out!

I'm also unsure of the timing with Bran/Rickon and Catelyn/Jaime. She's already standing in his pen with a sword in her hand even though "Bran and Rickon's" death has just been revealed to us, and she doesn't even know it yet.

I'm glad Dany is finally doing something, although I totally did not see Pyat Pree/Xaro plotting together. My laptop doesn't get that loud unfortunatly, was he declaring himself King? or something? Either way I quite like these scenes, its completely new stuff but in the end she's still going to end up at the House of the Undying so I'm just enjoying the ride along the way.

[dark sister]

Even though I am really happy that GOT was made into a series, I think that Benioff&Weiss have unfortunately bit off more than they could chew. Here's why:

In season 1, there were less characters, and although there was still a lot of background that made the story complicated and perhaps a bit difficult to understand for non-readers, it worked. (Background info such as CotF, First Men, Andals, Targaryen history, the many gods in the series are what I am referring to.) What helped make season 1 more cohesive was the fact that Ned Stark was the center of the storm, so to speak. He was the loveable patriarch of a noble family and most of the events derived from him -- Robert's offering him the position of Hand, which meant that his queen and Jaime were in Winterfell, etc. etc. Ned's BEING THERE set off a bunch of chain reactions, and once he agreed to be Robert's Hand, all the plotting started.

The only characters who were not really surrounding Ned Stark in the plot were Viserys and Dany. They were also separated geographically. However, the writers did a good job of explaining why they were in exile and what they were trying to accomplish.

Once Ned was executed, all hell broke loose, and I mean that in a couple of ways. Firstly, people who hadn't read the books were shocked and pissed that the "main character" of the series had been killed. Secondly, it accelerated the War of the 5 Kings. Thirdly, and most importantly, I observed a splintering effect of the storyline - now, instead of a plot that is very textured/includes subplots, but is basically still about Ned and his family (as well as Dany) it became a hundred different storylines.

One thing that struck me forcefully was how much each episode of season 2 skips around. In the first season, each episode seemed like it spent much more time on each character, and the cut from one scene to another was seamless and well-segued. This season, it runs sort of like this: two minutes with Theon hunting the boys - cut - one minute with Bran/Rickon/Osha/Hodor going towards a village - cut - Dany trying to find her dragons for two minutes - cut - Sansa talking with the Hound for 1 minute - cut - Arya and Tywin Lannister talking for 3 minutes (incredibly uncharacteristically, btw -- he even smiles a couple of times) - cut - Sansa gets her period and talks with Cersei for two minutes - cut - Jaime maunders on with a character - Alton?? - who wasn't in the books for four minutes, strangles him and a Karstark son, escapes - cut - Tyrion and Cersei have a heart-to-heart even though Tyrion has already delivered the infamous line of "your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth"....um, what? - cut - etc. etc. etc.

I didn't want to generalize before I had seen more than half of series 2, but this fragmented style of filming book 2 is disorienting and annoying. I understand that this might seem natural because there are 5 kings in the land, so naturally everyone will be all over the place, but what happens when even more characters are added as the series progresses? Will we only see half a minute of each character, unable to savor the longer interactions we enjoyed in season 1? It appears that although the adaptation of the books to TV is well-intentioned, there might be an inevitable downward spiral of fragmentation because of the growing cast, the growing complexity of the plot, and the unnecessary scenes they add to the show. (Perfect example: why on earth did they steal Dany's dragons? If they hadn't made that decision, there would have been extra time to use for longer scenes with the characters.)

Aside from that, my opinion of episode 7 is much like it has been for all the other episodes thus far -- I am left dissatisfied (unfortunately). The only high point for me was John & Ygritte's interactions. I love the actress playing her - she's got her character spot-on and even though in the book I always HATED it when she said "you know nothing, Jon Snow", I thought the way she delivered that line was absolutely fantastic. Grim, and not playful as I had always imagined.

Edited May 15, 2012 by dark sister