60 replies to this topic

[houseHB]

I think someone on here came up with this theory, I am not taking credit for this. In my re-read of ADWD, Bran notices Jojen getting weaker by the day does anyone else feel that Jojen is a benjamin button case. Bran notices that Meera always follows whatever Jojen tells her. Also, in Bran's first chapter Jojen says something along the lines of today is not the day I die. What if Jojen is actually the mysterious Howland Reed and at the end of the Bran chapters in ADWD Meera and Jojen are missing because he realizes he is dying and want's to go to the wall and tell Jon about his true parentage before he dies?

[DoctorSwerve]

I believe that Jojen is Howland, but everyone says that's too far fetched.  Considering undead Gregor & Cat, dragons flying around Essos, people spying around Westeros through trees, Faceless men able to change the look of their faces, etc., I guess someone looking young is out of the question.

[Lady Giantsbane]

I came across this theory a little while ago too, and for the sake of awesome plot twists (and REALLY wanting to see Howland Reed), this is one crazy theory that I really hope comes true! I hadn't even thought about comparing it to Benjamin Button though. There's not much evidence for it, but then again there's really no evidence against it that I can think of either.

[Stannis is the Mannis]

That's a really interesting theory.

I myself have been thinking that when Howland Reed is introduced, it very well may be as a character we've already seen or thought we knew. I think the Hooded Man in Winterfell has some substance to it, but I like the general idea that Jojen could be him. However, I'm not so sure about the "Benjamin Button" aspect, but other than that I like this a lot as a theory. I'll have to give this one some thought.

[FuzzyJAM]

When a theory has literally zero textual evidence it's time to throw it aside, I'm afraid.

[DoctorSwerve]

FuzzyJAM, on 29 April 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

When a theory has literally zero textual evidence it's time to throw it aside, I'm afraid.

There isn't really any evidence against it either.  Here are my points that aims towards the possibility of Jojen being Howland:

1. There isn't any mention of Jojen existing until he shows up at Winterfell.
2. He is nicknamed "little grandfather".
3. He seems highly advanced in knowledge of greenseeing and warging.  Not bad for a pre-teen.
4. Why would Howland send two young kids so far north on their own?
5. Why have we not seen Howland yet?  
6. Since Jojen has gone north, there hasn't been anyone that has mentioned Howland being somewhere else - hence nothing saying he is in 2 places at once.

Obviously this is speculation, however there are many on here that are adamant there isn't any way that Jojen could be Howland.  Why so sure considering all of the twists and turns we've seen so far?

[Drinking Cersei's Tears]

There isn't any evidence against Howland Reed being a tentacle monster either.  Doesn't make it likely.

[Ragnorak]

Meera and Jojen show up at the harvest feast.  We don't know for certain that Howland Reed would be recognized by Luwin or the other Northern lords but it seems more than unlikely that no one at the feast would know him.  Can't recall but I think someone mentioned a Howland Reed visit to Winterfel after Robert's Rebellion.  That would make it almost impossible for Jojen to be Howland.

I don't doubt we'll see Howland Reed but the odds of him being Jojen are slim at best.

[Howling Mad]

FuzzyJAM, on 29 April 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

When a theory has literally zero textual evidence it's time to throw it aside, I'm afraid.

Agree.  Besides what would be the point of a reverse aging Jojen Reed? What purpose would it make to the furtherance of the story?

[Howlin' Howland Reed]

Meera's description of Howland, during the story of the Knight of the Laughing Tree, doesn't really strike me as a good description of Jojen. Strong, good climber, etc.

[Jaruca]

I think it is an interesting possiblity. Merlin is often said to age backwards. I know Howland is not a wizard, but I think Bran remarks that Jojen seems to be getting smaller and if Howland/Jojen is getting younger, he would have been in his late 20's during the Knight of the Laughing Tree story.

[Dr. Pepper]

Jaruca, on 29 April 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

I think it is an interesting possiblity. Merlin is often said to age backwards. I know Howland is not a wizard, but I think Bran remarks that Jojen seems to be getting smaller and if Howland/Jojen is getting younger, he would have been in his late 20's during the Knight of the Laughing Tree story.

Jojen is getting smaller because they've walked hundreds of leagues in harsh conditions with very little food.

[James Arryn]

Deer Nejoj,

I like it.

[The Crannogman]

Hmmm... I don't know if I totally buy into this, but I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up to be true. If Howland was the Knight of the Laughing tree, then maybe you could use that as evidence of his ability to disguise himself and keep his true identity concealed.  The crannogmen are mysterious and we don't really know alot about them. Maybe they are able to do something like that glamour thing Mel does. I kinda doubt it, though it could go either way I guess.

(null)

[Ivy Snow]

Jojen = Howland = Benjamin Button rip off. I don't know about that. Martin would prolly make something a lot more original than that. But that's just me.

[Masonity]

Crackpot time...

Rather than reverse ageing or magical hiding, what if the crannogmen have a different sort of immortality? The Knight of the Laughing Tree and Reed saving Ned from Dayne don't make much sense from an isolated bunch of swamp dwellers that use their knowledge and mastery of their land to fight. But what if they had a leader who HAD learnt the ways of war, in the past. And a bunch of warriors who had, for several lifetimes, fought in the same swamps? Wouldn't hundreds of years of experience explain their prowess in keeping out invaders, and if Reed was hundreds of years old and had trained elsewhere in the past, it'd explain his abilities in combat.

Of course, why doesn't anyone notice? And why is Jojen "little grandfather" and a kid?

What if they practice reincarnation? But not the "forget past life" version, but rather are literally reborn as their old selves?

It'd explain why Howland hadn't left The Neck for so many years... He died and was growing back to the sort of age where it was viable. The flesh is different (and may or may not be Howland's biological offspring), but the mind is the same.

[DoctorSwerve]

When it's later revealed that Jojen is Howland, just remember I told ya so.

[Eejit]

DoctorSwerve, on 30 April 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

When it's later revealed that Jojen is Howland, just remember I told ya so.

We'll be too busy throwing our books at the wall.

Hey has anyone considered maybe Dany is Azhor Azhai reborn but Jon is the original AA and will be sent back in time by Bran? No evidence against it.  It worked for Babylon 5?!

Edited by Eejit, 30 April 2012 - 03:04 PM.

[Dracarya]

I see no reason to simply throw this theory out. There's no concrete evidence that Howland Reed even exists, so he could be anyone. Hell, he could be a wight. He could be Daenerys. He could be Jojen. He could be a rabbit. I, however, like the idea that he's Jojen. It makes a weird sort of sense. I'm not saying it's provable through textual evidence we've had so far, but it would make sense. Why would Howland Reed be sitting in a swamp twiddling his thumbs? If R+L=J, Jon's gotta find out at some point. It would make sense for Jojen-Howland to be there already, rather than Howland starting to make his way up now. If he isn't Jojen, he's certainly late to the party.

Some good points for the theory. I like it

[Dracarya]

Eejit, on 30 April 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

We'll be too busy throwing our books at the wall.

Hey has anyone considered maybe Dany is Azhor Azhai reborn but Jon is the original AA and will be sent back in time by Bran? No evidence against it.  It worked for Babylon 5?!

Nothing is impossible in these books.