124 replies to this topic

[Envie]

Best. Scene. Ever.

The look between Tywin Lannister and Arya Stark sent chills racing up my spine. I feel they have found a very special chemistry in their acting and I have SO looked forward to that moment ever since we learned they'd changed the story to make Arya Tywin's cup bearer instead of Bolton's. While the Roose Bolton / Arya exchange was essentially the same, it seemed way waaaay more scary with Tywin saying those lines. So much electric charged tension... so much unsaid threat and promise, revenge, blood, seething hatred. All from a little girl and an old man.

Freaking amazing.

[Thunderfist]

I agree. These two actors are great and when you combine them, there is awesomeness

[salt]

While I love these two actors, I thought the scene was terrible and blatantly insulting to the spirit of Martin's work.   Changing things from the books is fine, altering characters and plots can be necessary for the sake of the show, but a ridiculous scene like this goes against the basic, core nature of these stories.

Everyone in the room would have felt that tension.  A peasant girl just lied to the Lord of Casterly Rock, revealed she was actually from the North, and then stared him down.  There was, as you said,

Envie, on 30 April 2012 - 12:47 AM, said:

So much electric charged tension... so much unsaid threat and promise, revenge, blood, seething hatred.

which was obvious to all of us watching, and certainly would have been apparent to Lord Tywin- and his reaction to that is to put her in charge of what he drinks.  Absurd.  This felt like something that belonges in a summer blockbuster, not a brutally honest story that gives us Ned's death and the Red Wedding.


I often find myself drawing comparisons between Game of Thrones and The Wire, because The Wire is one of the few shows I've ever seen on television that approaches the level of complexity and intelligence found in the ASOIAF novels.  In one episode of The Wire, a leading drug dealer played by the famous and charismatic rapper Method Man and his people are meeting with another criminal to make a business deal.  Method Man's character starts giving a dramatic speech about how all the other players in the drug game in town have fallen, except for him.  He's got a pistol in his hand with all eyes are focused on him, the biggest man in the room, saying that now it is HIS time, and is halfway through a sentence when one of his subordinates pulls out a gun and blows a hole through his skull.

ASOIAF has always been honest.  It isn't the place where children get to make cool speeches and the whole room sits back and says "Damn, that was dramatic, that little kid sure is a badass."  Anyone can be killed.  And when you're a peasant lying to, staring down, and threatening Lord Tywin Lannister, Shield of Lannisport and Warden of the West, you're killed pretty quickly.

Edited by salt, 30 April 2012 - 04:11 AM.

[Arkash]

I agree, it wasnt realistic at all and in the books, Arya would have been killed on the moment for saying such things, but, damn, it worked so well on screen.

[SerArthurHeath]

Previously I had assumed Tywin liked Arya's attitude because she reminds him of a young Cersei (whom Tywin was specifically fond of and friendly to, in her flashbacks at least) but yeah, this is probably pushing it

[Raylan Stark]

OTOH, Tywin seems... I guess intrigued is the best word with Arya.  He has been from the moment he met her.  I know it seems out of character for Tywin to let insolence slide, but perhaps this is why he did.

As quickly as he susses out her lies, you'd think he'd put 2 and 2 together.

There's a line from I believe ASOS.  It says how Tywin never smiled, but very rarely, he'd threaten to smile, and when he did, it was terrible to behold (paraphrasing).  Charles Dance nailed that.

[Storm of Words]

Arkash, on 30 April 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

I agree, it wasnt realistic at all and in the books, Arya would have been killed on the moment for saying such things, but, damn, it worked so well on screen.

Hi Guys! some Commoner-noob talk from me. ;-)

The acting was great. Charles Dance and Maisie are awesome.

But I also think that the writing gets worse the more they go away from Martin's original.
The whole Ensemble of the Actors is great (you can argue about 1-3) but the writers seem helpless sometimes realising that Martins huge books have to fit in so little screentime.

I can understand that the producers and writers want to put Dance in more scenes looking at how great he acts. But the Harrenhall situation gets really out of line.

I liked the scenes in the books when Arya interacted with Roose Bolton and how dark Harrenhall was. The reader was beginning to learn that Bolton was a real dangerous man although he was one of Robbs Allies.

[If my english sucks please be patient :rolleyes: ]

[strifed169]

Didn't like the scene at all, Arya is known to be bold but she overdid it staring down an elite figure like Tywin Lannister, not only that, Tywin allowed it, huge out of character moment, kind of lost the immersion of Arya and Tywin's storyline a bit, for me at least..

[Balefont]

Here's a thought: Tywin knew she was from the north and therefore did not have cause to love him for his part of the war and the turmoil of her homelands.  Plus, he'd lose face if he changed his mind as having her a his cupbearer after trying to make a point to his men that the smallfolk can be of use - even untrained little girls.  Plus, he asked her for her thoughts.  Don't ask a question if you're not ready to hear the answer.

Seems like he was giving her some benefit of the doubt for being uncouth.

[Battlekitten]

I thought it was a dangerous thing to say.
They were talking about what to do with Robb and his military "invincibility"
Anyone can be killed in this context lays the foundations for RW and mirrors what Stannis did with Renly ie just take out the leader

My issue is her pronunciation of "my lord" not "m'lord" - it was referred to as a big deal in the books marking someone as not of small folk and there goes Arya. And what is a girl from Barrowtown doing in the Riverlands, perhaps Tywin would not be interested at the war council but if I were him I would like to know

[The Monkey]

Loved the scene.

Don't think it was out of character for Tywin to let it pass. He has very small regard for low-borns, and if his cup-bearer hates him, what of it? He would still expect discipline, and it's wouldn't occur to him that she would try to kill him. He assumes that peasants by default are too scared or cowardly to even consider to do harm to such a high lord as himself.

[Fez]

Loved the scene.

I might be imagining it, but I'm pretty sure at the end of scene, as Arya is walking off to get the water, Tywin looks down at the food she had put out in front of him and pushes it away; almost as if he thought maybe she was going to try to poison him. Or at the least that her ability to stand up to him put him completely off eating.

[Pellaeon]

Tywin is no monster like Ser Gregor, from his POV Arya is just a little girl that lie to him because she is scared, and after he revield the lie he get exactly what he want, he try to show his council wich kind of attitude the northmen have and how they woreship the Starks. What expect you of him, to kill a little girl because she lie or say something stupid, in the book when Tywin and Tyrion speak about Rhaegars children you see that he did it because for him it was the only way, but he didn't like it. He wouldn't care about a girl speak against him.

[Greywolf2375]

Arkash, on 30 April 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

I agree, it wasnt realistic at all and in the books, Arya would have been killed on the moment for saying such things, but, damn, it worked so well on screen.

I don't think she would have been killed, but I don't see a man like Tywin keeping someone around that he knows had lied to her once, is from the north and then just made that comment.

I liked the scene - they did it very well, but it just doesn't follow based on Tywin's caution.  There is no reason now that Tywin's name doesn't get in her list.

[SerArthurHeath]

Now Arya has an excuse to not name Tywin- if he dies after she has made that threat, she will be killed as she is number one suspect

[SerArthurHeath]

Actually, I'm not sure Tywin realised she could be referring to him- an extension of the Lannister arrogance seen in (Show) Tyrion, where he doesn't think that the "demon monkey" is him. Tywin Lannister, in his eyes, CANNOT be killed. So it makes sense that he ignores the meaning behind his serving girl's words

[The Black Wolf]

I loved it, simply loved it. And I don't think it's out of character for Tywin to let it slide... it would have been if Arya had just spoken without being asked, it might have been if Tywin knew that she was Arya and not some random lowborn girl. I think he asks her to make a point to his men, to show them how fiercely loyal even the lowest of the northmen are to Robb. Tywin expects her answer to be like the one she gives, what he might not have completely expected is the "anyone can be killed", which probably doesn't sound quite as much as an open threat to the Lannisters as it does to us, seeing as they don't know about Arya like we do. Tywin isn't like Cersei in the way that he doesn't feel the need to personally crush anyone that slightly defies him. He chooses his battles and makes sure that when he strikes, it's going to mean something.

[The Monkey]

Greywolf2375, on 30 April 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

I don't think she would have been killed, but I don't see a man like Tywin keeping someone around that he knows had lied to her once, is from the north and then just made that comment.

I liked the scene - they did it very well, but it just doesn't follow based on Tywin's caution.  There is no reason now that Tywin's name doesn't get in her list.

Charles Dance said in an interview that there is a scene coming between Arya and Tywin where Arya gets a small view of what's inside Tywin. It could be this scene, but I doubt it.

More likely it's a scene he expresses how idiotic it was for Joffrey to kill Ned or something to that effect, which leads Arya to feel a bit more kind towards him, and thus not include him on her list.

Edited by The Monkey, 30 April 2012 - 07:38 AM.

[Oberyn King]

Tywin may be a tyrant feared by everyone, but he's too proud to feel threatened by a little girl.  So, "anyone can be killed" is something that only Arya could say while staring at Tywin and get away with it.

[Thunderfist]

I don´t see how it´s out of character for Tywin to keep Arya around even after that exchange. As the end of ASoS clearly shows, Tywin is oblivious in dangerous situations. When your escaped imp son, who´s been badly disfigured, framed for murder, sentenced to death and who is generally pissed off at everyone and everything, aims a crossbow at you, you say something nice or stfu. I have a much harder time believing that situation from the actual books than I have believing this tv-stuff.