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[Book Spoilers] "Anyone can be killed..."


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124 replies to this topic

#21 Myrddin

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 09:23 AM

I thought it was a dangerous thing to say.
They were talking about what to do with Robb and his military "invincibility"
Anyone can be killed in this context lays the foundations for RW and mirrors what Stannis did with Renly ie just take out the leader

This is my thought as well. Show-Arya may have just planted the seed for RW.

#22 Jamie Lannister

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 09:27 AM

Why would Tywin give a shit if she's from the north? She's just some messy servant girl with a glib tongue. Maybe he appreciates a little wit after that sour exchange at the planning table.

#23 Greyjoy67

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 09:33 AM

@ people saying she sounded threatening - eh?

She answered his question and Tywin would probably interpret her 'intensity' as innocence/being frightened. It didn't come across as threatening to me at all. Just a wee point there.

#24 CrypticWeirwood

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 09:50 AM

My issue is her pronunciation of "my lord" not "m'lord" - it was referred to as a big deal in the books marking someone as not of small folk and there goes Arya.

Arya doesn’t know enough to fake the speech of a lowborn; she’s just too young for that. Doubtless Tywin notices, is intrigued, and continues to observe her to find out who she really is.

#25 Independent George

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 10:04 AM

I don't think he figures out Arya's identity this season, but I foresee a scene next season, where he arrives in King's Landing and finally hears the details of her escape, and possibly a physical description...

Skinny northern girl + well-spoken + resourceful + knows heraldry = double-facepalm.

Which would be awesome.

#26 Brynden Bloodraven

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 10:32 AM

I really liked this invented scene as well. Sometime, the show is spot on with what it adds. It would be redundant for the show to have both Tywin and Roose occupy Harrenhal, although I was really looking forward to some of the scenes with the Leech Lord--I thought the casting was right on the money for him.

Other times, I'm dumbfounded by the exchanges they choose to insert (I could not be more upset by Littlefinger professing his love to Cat). It is entirely out of character for LF to show his hand, unless it's in an indirect way (I love the scene in the books where LF is building the castles with Sansa/Alayne).

Also, the Valaryian Stone (WTF is that?) bank--come on. Give me the real Xaro.

#27 aimlessgun

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 10:37 AM

I don´t see how it´s out of character for Tywin to keep Arya around even after that exchange. As the end of ASoS clearly shows, Tywin is oblivious in dangerous situations. When your escaped imp son, who´s been badly disfigured, framed for murder, sentenced to death and who is generally pissed off at everyone and everything, aims a crossbow at you, you say something nice or stfu. I have a much harder time believing that situation from the actual books than I have believing this tv-stuff.


Haha so true.

In any case, Tywin is using Arya to instruct his idiot commanders. You notice how he keeps looking from Arya back to his men as she's talking? Tywin knows that after all the defeats his bannerman half believe the legends about Robb Stark, and Arya saying that no, she doesn't believe the legends is perfect for the point that Tywin is trying to get across: these are all silly stories, Robb Stark is just a man and even a little girl doesn't believe he's invincible.

It's only when Arya holds the stare a bit too long that Tywin thinks something else is going on there, but he was the one asking the questions and she played the role he wanted her to play for the most part.

Edited by aimlessgun, 30 April 2012 - 10:38 AM.


#28 Tadco26

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 10:49 AM

I think the scene was very well acted, and completely unbelieveable in the way it was written. We get example after example in the books on how commoners are treated by knights and lords and this exchange was the polar opposite of those examples. A veiled threat in front of his war council by anyone, much less a northern commoner prisoner, would not just go ignored if for no other reason than it would make him look weak in front of his bannermen.

#29 JayDubya

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 11:01 AM

I put myself in Tywin's shoes in that scene and think.

1) Wow, she's trying to sound ominous and threatening
2) But I'm the most powerful man in Westeros - do I let myself feel threatened by a little girl?
3) No, of course I don't. Go get me the water, little girl.

So she had a cover story. He's probably patting himself on the back for sniffing it out. And the fact that she didn't beg, didn't plead for forgiveness indicates that she knows she did nothing wrong. And I agree! It is perfectly rational for a peasant northern girl to keep her identity a secret when she's a prisoner of the Lannister army.

No 11yo peasant girl is steadfast in the face of a noble lord, except for one with nothing to hide.

Having said that, I would, if I were Tywin, move her to the kitchens at the beginning of the next episode.

#30 Balefont

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 11:18 AM

Charles Dance said in an interview that there is a scene coming between Arya and Tywin where Arya gets a small view of what's inside Tywin. It could be this scene, but I doubt it.


I think the scene to which he referred may already have happened. The scene when Tywin enters Harrenhall and "saves" Gendry and the rest of the smallfolk from the Tickler.

#31 Lannes

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 11:23 AM

I don't think the scene was out of character for Tywin either.

Remember, Tywin is, above all things, smart. And most smart people ask questions and then listen.

Absolutely amazing scene and maybe my favorite from the 2 seasons so far.

#32 Ser Giant

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 11:24 AM

I don´t see how it´s out of character for Tywin to keep Arya around even after that exchange. As the end of ASoS clearly shows, Tywin is oblivious in dangerous situations. When your escaped imp son, who´s been badly disfigured, framed for murder, sentenced to death and who is generally pissed off at everyone and everything, aims a crossbow at you, you say something nice or stfu. I have a much harder time believing that situation from the actual books than I have believing this tv-stuff.


Exactly this! Tywin is not a paranoid person.

#33 Blangadanger

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 12:25 PM

I think people may still be confusing TV-Tywin for Book-Tywin. They have very little in common personality-wise. In the books, Tywin is downright evil, hates everyone and is thoroughly engrossed on his family's lineage. In contrast the Tywin on the show is speculative, whip-smart, and rational. Just as TV-Tywin seems slightly impressed with Tyrion's analysis of the war after Jaime's capture, he's amused with this common girl telling him what she thinks of all men and the ease that they can be killed. His own men are clueless about how to win a battle from this supposed legend of Robb and only offer excuses, and yet here's a young girl from the North, who not only has the guile to survive the harsh realities of war, but shows utmost loyalty to a King of the North, whom she likely has never met. However she follows up with "Anyone can be killed," which gives him a hint of smile, because he knows that Robb is not an invincible wolfman, yet another thing this girl knows more than his own men. We, the viewers, obviously translate it as her wish upon his death, which Maisie delivered tremendously well.

I think it was an amazing scene. Maisie and Charles ARE my versions of Arya and Tywin now.

Edited by Blangadanger, 30 April 2012 - 12:26 PM.


#34 TrackerNeil

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 12:42 PM

I think it was an amazing scene. Maisie and Charles ARE my versions of Arya and Tywin now.


I know! You could see in Arya's eyes every inch of the various traumatic experiences she's suffered, and I think Tywin can see it, too. Those of us who've read the books know that Tywin Lannister respects strength - so long as it doesn't in any way threaten his privileges or agenda - so I can see him approving (in a condescnding) of Arya's response. But I agree with what was said upthread; you don't want someone with that look in her eye to pour your wine, water, or anything else you intend to ingest.

#35 Pliny

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 01:12 PM

To me, Arya's "anyone can be killed" statement was more one of resignation to a harsh reality, in a way. I reminded me of her entry to the House of Black and White. Arya the little girl gone, and only Arry/Weasel/Nan/no one is left, with (seemingly) no attachments, no delusions of childlike faith and optimism.

And I don't think it necessarily seemed like a threat to Tywin. As others have said, he expected her to be fierce, as he pegged her for a northerner. He finds her mildly amusing; that's why he chose her for his cupbearer. She held the stare a bit long. Perhaps this sad girl is a bit more interesting? Or maybe just for the moment. I doubt he's too concerned. He's probably more concerned as to why it took her so long to return with that water.

#36 Independent George

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 01:27 PM

I think people may still be confusing TV-Tywin for Book-Tywin. They have very little in common personality-wise. In the books, Tywin is downright evil, hates everyone and is thoroughly engrossed on his family's lineage. In contrast the Tywin on the show is speculative, whip-smart, and rational.


That's never been my view of book-Tywin. I've always thought of him as whip-smart and rational. TV-Tywin is an even more charismatic version of the one in my head - and I'd always pictured him as charismatic. Charles Dance is just that good.

#37 Ixodes

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 01:36 PM

I think people may still be confusing TV-Tywin for Book-Tywin. They have very little in common personality-wise. In the books, Tywin is downright evil, hates everyone and is thoroughly engrossed on his family's lineage. In contrast the Tywin on the show is speculative, whip-smart, and rational.


That's what I thought at first but after some thought, I am not so sure. I think I interpreted Tywin far more harshly in the book than I am in the show, yet essentially the character isn't that different. I actually am looking forward to another re-read and see how the character strikes me now. Regardless, Tywin is portrayed so well in the show he is one of my favorite characters. This has really surprised me.

#38 Independent George

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 02:16 PM

I would also add that I think it's extremely unlikely that Tywin even knows that Arya escaped the Lannisters. It's obviously a closely-guarded secret, as their leverage depends on having two Stark children in captivity. R-mail has already been established as easy to intercept - I don't think Tyrion would risk sending such sensitive information that way, and there's no indication that they have riders moving back & forth between Harrenhall and King's Landing.

I think this goes back to my theory that S3 will include a scene where Tywin is informed that Arya escaped King's Landing, and that they have men searching for her. And since they're searching for someone while trying not to reveal who they're searching for, he'll probably hear a pretty good description of her personality as well as her physical likeness. At that point, he ought to be able to put it all together, and dispatch someone to recall his cupbearer (who, of course, has by now fled, thereby providing additional evidence of her identity).

Depending on how "Weasel Soup" is handled this season, Tywin may end up staring at a boat load of evidence that he let Arya Stark slip right past his fingers. And that would be beyond awesome to watch.

#39 cuendillar

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 02:18 PM

It's quite likely he didn't see it as a threat at all. He asked several questions in one, of Robb's supposed immortality and if she believed that he had a direwolf. Tywin Lannister isn't "anyone" in his own mind, nor in the eyes of most people. He did not hear it as a threat, even though the we did.

Holding the stare pretty much implied she knew there where more to the rumours about Grey Wind than just hearsay. He might want to look further into why when they're alone - and imply that her continued safety hings on his well-being.

He let her show defiance to gain her loyalty - the council will see her as a prime suspect should anything befall Tywin. He demands only loyalty in his men, not love. Her life being tied to his ensures that nicely.

#40 ManyFacedOne

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 02:36 PM

Probably my favorite scene this season. Maisie Williams needs to win an Emmy, now. And Charles Dance was amazing as well.

As for Tywin's reaction, or lack of one, I didn't think it was at all unrealistic. He was clearly bored by talking to his bannerman and was amused by her responses, I think. As for the specific line, well, she told him straight up what he wanted to hear: Robb Stark isn't invincible. There was more under it, of course, but I don't think he cares that some norther peasant has no love for him. He just doesn't care.

Edited by ManyFacedOne, 30 April 2012 - 02:40 PM.