85 replies to this topic

[Carey Snow]

Lors, on 30 April 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

From the preview of next weeks episode and the vision that Bran has, 'water flowing over the walls of Winterfell, and Ser Rodrick Cassel drowning'; can it now be understood that there will be no Reek - Ramsey character involved in the TV series. In addition, if you caught the preview, you will have seen Roose Bolton delivering a message to King Robb about Torren's Square being attacked.
Will we get a plot where Robb will send Roose up north to deal with the problem, or will Roose suggest to send for his so-far-as-now unknown bastard Ramsey to deal with this problem?

**********spoilers of course************ If I remember correctly, Reek does not become prominent till after Theon takes Winterfell which has not happened yet. Reek helps Theon look for the missing boys. There is still time to introduce Reek. Of course this may not happen till season 3 depending on how quickly Theon takes Winterfell.

[Carey Snow]

Arkash, on 01 May 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

I dont think Dagmer is Ramsay either, Dagmer is just there, as said in the previous post, so Theon can talk to him, the only way to retranscript inner monologues visually...

I agree. Dagmer Cleftjaw is Dagmer Cleftjaw the second in command in Theon's ship just like he is in the book. He is an Iron Born not a Northman. Ramsay/Reek is a Northman.

On page 545 of the paperback version of aCoK Theon and Dagmer concoct their plan to take Winterfell almost word for word like it is on the show.

Reek is not introduced until Bran's chapter later in the book when Bran is brought before Theon. Reek was a prisoner at Winterfell who Theon frees after he takes Winterfell. pg 673 in my version.

Edited by Carey Snow, 01 May 2012 - 08:54 PM.

[congokong]

Carey Snow, on 01 May 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

Reek is not introduced until Bran's chapter later in the book when Bran is brought before Theon. Reek was a prisoner at Winterfell who Theon frees after he takes Winterfell. pg 673 in my version.

No, Reek is introduced around this point of the show. Sir Roderic brings him in after that Lady Hornwood business. Jojen then had the dreams about Bran and Rickon's bodies lying over Reek. Later Theon releases him.

[Carey Snow]

congokong, on 01 May 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:

No, Reek is introduced around this point of the show. Sir Roderic brings him in after that Lady Hornwood business. Jojen then had the dreams about Bran and Rickon's bodies lying over Reek. Later Theon releases him.

Okay, you are right. Still that is in Winterfell not the Iron Islands. Plus it would just take up screen time at this point for little reason. I think they are going to introduce him after Theon takes Winterfell. They may save it till season three depending on how far they get with Theon's/Bran's stories in season 2.

[The Second Hand]

My thoughts are this --

206
Theon takes Winterfell. Theon and Bran have discussion. Totally unneccessary sex scene between Theon and some wench. Ramsay introduced in line-up of prisoners. Easy.

[catstory]

We are all freaking out about no Ramsey. But what would happen to Theon without him? The producers have spent a lot of time on Theon, and Ramsey is essential to his development. I think Ramsey will be minor this season, and will have a greater role in S3.

[congokong]

catstory, on 01 May 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

We are all freaking out about no Ramsey. But what would happen to Theon without him? The producers have spent a lot of time on Theon, and Ramsey is essential to his development. I think Ramsey will be minor this season, and will have a greater role in S3.

The same argument could be said for the Reeds and Bran's development. And it's clear the Reeds are not in it. So maybe they'll merge the Ramsay character into Roose (terrible idea) like they did with the Reeds and Osha.

Bran's story arc has been terrible this season with the lack of Frey children, Winterfell feast, Reeds, and Lady Dustin and the bastard of Bolton business. Yet the writers don't seem to care, so why should they about Theon?

[congokong]

Carey Snow, on 01 May 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

Okay, you are right. Still that is in Winterfell not the Iron Islands. Plus it would just take up screen time at this point for little reason. I think they are going to introduce him after Theon takes Winterfell. They may save it till season three depending on how far they get with Theon's/Bran's stories in season 2.

It would be nice to know who the hell Reek/Ramsay is if he's going to be introduced. I figured if he was going to show up we'd have some plot regarding Lady Hornwood. That would have been a great introduction to what Ramsay is. The only reason they wouldn't show what Ramsay did on-screen would be to conceal that Reek is Ramsay. But why would the audience care when the character hasn't even been mentioned yet?

[No Avatar- that movie suck]

Heck, maybe we'll find out that Roose wanted to nothing to do with his Bastard get, and he wound up making his way to the Iron Islands in the aftermath of Balon's ridiculous rebellion when they had a need for a few mediocre men over there to man the ships.  He assimilated to Ironborn culture, earned their respect, became a first mate on one of the Iron Born ships, took the name Dagmer.  He'll "suggest" the easily manipulated and conflicted Theon into taking Winterfell, knowing full well it is a fools errand, glean Theon's knowledge of winter fell itself, suggest the murder of the Miller's boys to leave the claim questionable with Robb in the south and cut off, when things obviously end up bad, he'll tell Theon he'll rally up some more fighters, launch the retaking of Winterfell, win recognition from his father, become Ramsay Bolton, giving Roose motivation to clean up the Stark lineage at the Red Wedding. Big reveal, the small folk cheer Theon's torture for a while, before becoming sickened by it along with Ramsay's misadventures, the realize what a Psycho he really is.

I know, ain't gonna happen, but it would be all kinds of awesome for the casual viewer and the book reader both, we get a shock at a change that doesn't alter the later story, they get salt in their mouth as the wages of their vigilante revenge fantasies going so horribly awry, etc.

Won't happen, but it should.  Someone needs to whisper "kill the Miller's boys" in Theon's ear, and  from what some have seen on the HBO website, this has to go down by the end of the year.

Please give me a cool change like this that will shock the book readers...  Please...

[Arkash]

Quote

On page 545 of the paperback version of aCoK Theon and Dagmer concoct their plan to take Winterfell almost word for word like it is on the show.

This...

I'm in the team hundred percent sure Dagmer is not Ramsay.

We're so frustrated Ramsay hasnt been cast that we see him everywhere, but I'm quite sure he'll be in next season.

[Groat]

congokong, on 01 May 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

The same argument could be said for the Reeds and Bran's development. And it's clear the Reeds are not in it. So maybe they'll merge the Ramsay character into Roose (terrible idea) like they did with the Reeds and Osha.

Bran's story arc has been terrible this season with the lack of Frey children, Winterfell feast, Reeds, and Lady Dustin and the bastard of Bolton business. Yet the writers don't seem to care, so why should they about Theon?

Totally agree and this really bothers me. Bran is a huge part of the story with an important role to play, and they're not giving his story its due. They spend all this screen time with Bran dealing with lords needing more masons because of Robb's war, and a shepherd needing orphans to tend his flock. "Sometime being a lord means talking with people you'd rather not talk to". What is this doing for the story? How hard would it be to scrap those scenes and just introduce Meera, Jojen, the Frey kids, and the Lady Hornwood story. They don't even need to cast Lady Hornwood, just bring news of the Bastard forcibly marrying her instead of Joe Blow minor lord complaining about his castle falling apart and Robb's war. I think it's pretty clear that Roose will not be taking Harrenhal, and the whole "Eastern Campaign" of Roose, where other Northern houses lose battles, is going to be completely scrapped.

Also, with out the Reeds, what's going to happen to Rickon? (Assuming Osha takes Bran North of the Wall). I am going to be so upset if Maester Luwin ends up taking Rickon to Skagos.

Edited by Groat, 02 May 2012 - 06:47 AM.

[Bayard]

I'm not really worried about Ramsay, he will appear next season. I heard in an interview of D&D that Theon's story is their favourite in this book, and probably in the entire books. It was clear from the first season where Theon was a lot more important then in the books. It's only a matter of money, they will not cast actors for only 1,2 episodes .... so I think that the entire story with the miller's kids will be entirely Theon's and we shall see moved the thing with Asha, Reek, and the sacking to the beginning of season 3. It works very well... and they could keep the Reek part.

PS: If they really do merge Ramsay and Roose.... well, they are simply

[Brienne the Beauty]

Arkash, on 02 May 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

I'm in the team hundred percent sure Dagmer is not Ramsay.

I think he might take the role of the bad voice whispering in Theon's ear that Ramsay did in the books.

[House Snow]

^Yeah I guess it doesn't really matter if its Ramsey or someone else that urges the killing, but it definitely shouldn't be Theon's own idea.  The writers have to find the balance of making people pissed at Theon but not so much that they can't have sympathy later on.  Overall I'm not worried that he will be cut.  I mean if the writers said screw it we are making almost nothing from Feast and Dance, I think the one thing they would keep is Theons storyline. Its good and easily managed.

[Jamie Lannister]

congokong, on 01 May 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

The same argument could be said for the Reeds and Bran's development. And it's clear the Reeds are not in it. So maybe they'll merge the Ramsay character into Roose (terrible idea) like they did with the Reeds and Osha.

Bran's story arc has been terrible this season with the lack of Frey children, Winterfell feast, Reeds, and Lady Dustin and the bastard of Bolton business. Yet the writers don't seem to care, so why should they about Theon?

It's pretty incomparable. Bran's storyline went nowhere until it intertwined with Theon's in the books, too (your mileage may vary, but it bored me a little at least), and Ramsay was integral to the climax of that. It set the Boltons up as a ticking time bomb, in a shocker ending that no one saw coming. Great writing, and it only improved from there when we caught up with Theo- Reek a while later.

I just can't fathom how the guys whose stated goal is to "make as faithful an adaption as we can of A Song of Ice and Fire" can alter Theon's downfall so drastically. Ramsay is like the bloody main antagonist of book five; he has an axe to grind with everyone, and what he did to Winterfell in the backdrop of all that is just... ugh. Such delicious intrigue.

Might work. Might not. It's one hell of a liberty to take, though; fundamentally changing a storyline as utterly massive as the heart-wrenching sack of Winterfell courtesy of the evil bastard of the north/Jon Snow's ultimate foil might prove unwise in the future.

Edited by Jamie Lannister, 02 May 2012 - 07:31 PM.

[congokong]

Jamie Lannister, on 02 May 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

It's pretty incomparable. Bran's storyline went nowhere until it intertwined with Theon's in the books, too (your mileage may vary, but it bored me a little at least), and Ramsay was integral to the climax of that. It set the Boltons up as a ticking time bomb, in a shocker ending that no one saw coming. Great writing, and it only improved from there when we caught up with Theo- Reek a while later.

I just can't fathom how the guys whose stated goal is to "make as faithful adaption as we can of A Song of Ice and Fire" can alter Theon's downfall so drastically. Ramsay is like the bloody main antagonist of book five; he has an axe to grind with everyone, and what he did to Winterfell in the backdrop of all that is just... ugh. Such delicious intrigue.

Might work. Might not. It's one hell of a liberty to take, though; fundamentally changing a storyline as utterly massive as the heart-wrenching sack of Winterfell courtesy of the evil bastard of the north might prove unwise in the future.

When did the writers say they were trying to make as faithful an adaption as possible? When they were writing the first season? I ask because the second season has drastically shifted from the books. Many of the scenes don't even occur in the books. This was not the case in the first season. At this point I think they're trying to "make it their own." And it's not just the big things like lack of Reeds/Ramsay/Edmure, etc., added scenes like Shae not knowing how to chores, or different dialogue, but little things like Dagmer suggesting the Winterfell plan to Theon instead of vice versa in the books. Why would they have killed Silver in the show if they want to stay true? It did nothing for the story but take up screen time. This season there have been endless examples of changes that can't be explained by "budget" if they want to keep it faithful. No, I see the show gradually being very different from the books.

[Sphinx The Riddle]

Reeds will be in next season i bet and your crazy if you think ramsey wont be in the show.. BE PATIENT!!!!!!

[The Bastard of Bolton]

Fuck patience.
He might become more prominent later on in the story but the dynamic between Theon/Reek is integral to the role reversal that comes after.
I'm really not much of a purist and can accept some of the changes but this really shits on the impact of Ramsay as a character.

[Strider]

I suspect we need to prepare ourselves.  Ramsay will not be in the series.  His role will be fulfilled in and by Roose.  After all, how many socioopaths can a TV series adequately present?  

Is Ramsey absolutely necessary to the narrative?  Yes, I know he is different from his father, but if push comes to shove, why can't Roose be the one who makes Theon into Reek?  Yes, narrative changes will have to be made, but will these changes violate the heart of the story?

[I'll pay the iron price]

Ramsey Bolton MUST be included.
I hate the guy but he's a terrific villian and gives new meaning to the phrase "I'm gonna get medievil on your ass"