109 replies to this topic

[Chipster92]

Personally, I never cared too much for the Reeds in the books. They were basically walking plot devices who were only around for exposition purposes. They didn't seem to have much personalities of their own. The Green Dreams being given to Bran, in my opinion, is an excellent way of streamlining an already jam-packed narrative. Having Osha the wilding stick around is good, since 1)the audience already knows her, 2)it would make perfect sense for her to know about stuff that's beyond the Wall, and 3) there wouldn't be any time wasted introducing two new child characters, who in my opinion, aren't at all interesting and don't amount to much. That time can be used to properly develop other characters who got short-shrifted in the books. Keeping Maester Luwin around longer can also give the opportunity to get across more backstory using a character who is already familiar.

If they absolutely have to have one of the Reeds there, It should just be Meera.

Edited by Chipster92, 30 April 2012 - 11:40 AM.

[WinterWarrior]

I think the Reeds can still be introduced in Season 3. It looks like they are definitely out for Season 2.

My fear is there are too many "dark" characters and not enough good people in the tv show. Cutting out the Reeds eliminates a couple of good characters that are needed to balance out all of the darknes in the show. But I am really enjoying the tv series so I will leave it to the writers.

[Bastard of Boston]

One good thing to come out of Jojen and Meera's cut is the possibility that Luwin will live, as someone mentioned. I love Luwin on the show.

Edited by Bastard of Boston, 30 April 2012 - 11:39 AM.

[Bastard of Lannister]

Maybe they will introduce the Reeds in Season 3, and have them see the burning of Winterfell, hide and run into Bran later. they could say "We came because I had a dream of the Ocean crashing over the waves of winterfell" and Bran is like "OMG, me too, lets be buds" I hope Osha goes away because . . . I dont really like her character and the books have an awesome plot, small changes like Ros the whore in the show arent too annoying, particularly because of the "play with her ass" scene. But not including the Reeds is a mistake and it would just really make the show suffer.

[Strider]

Lors, on 30 April 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

I hate to admit it, but I personally think that the characters of Bran, Rickon, Hodor (Hodor), and Osha will all be traveling together to the Wall. Just from the perspective of the books, we havent heard from Rickon or Osha since they split up, minus the knowledge that they are possibly in Skagos. The characters have to stay together, I guess just for the continuity of the storyline. Maester Luwin cant not survive, for many claring reasons, but first and foremost his advanced age is to unbelievable to make any knid of escape or long winded journey.

I thought of that, too.  Having Rickon join Bran on the journey north would alter the narrative, but for the purpose of the show that might not be a bad thing.    And I take your point about Luwin being too old, perhaps, to successfully take charge of Rickon--perhaps.  But I still think it would be best to keep him alive.  Rickon needs to be put in the charge of someone we already know, rather than inventing a new character at this point.  IMHO.

[Patchface12]

I think they will appear in season 3, but the 3 eyed crow will have sent them to escort Bran north. I also think the Blackfish and Edmure will appear next season as well. I think most "cut" characters are simply being held off until they become more important and thus easier for the audience to remember.The only characters that seem to have been cut for good are Donal Noye, Chett, and Cleos Frey.

[Husband to Bears]

Don't you need at least one Reed for the trek North? Who is Bran going to talk to?  Hodor? It will be reminicent to Tom Hanks talking to Wilson for the entire Journey.

[IceVyper]

Why do some many people think that the show won't last beyond A Storm of Swords?

[dansnow]

It saddens me because I consider Osha to be a much more minor character than the Reeds. And I'm not a huge fan of the actress at all. But I get why they have to make changes like this and how her actress brings in viewers so I'll just cross my fingers for season 3.

[Ser Giant]

For me it's because there have been no Reeds and no Ramsey Snow and obviously because it's just speculation.


I was just thinking they may actually kill Rickon and just have Bran, Hodor, and Osha hide in the crypts. This would suck because Shaggydog is my fav DW, but it would streamline everything in the north and make things more focused.

[IceVyper]

They may appear in the 3rd season, besides books 4 and 5 can give for plenty of seasons without the Reeds or Ramsay. I think they skipped the Reeds because they don't want to have too many kids and Osha can easily replace them. Ramsay on the other hand might as well show up. They just need a really awesome actor and they may just not want to waste someone in this season for a few minutes of screen time.

[Fez]

Ferrum Aeternum, on 30 April 2012 - 08:29 AM, said:

Popular opinion is that Osha will accompany Bran and Hodor north of the Wall, while Luwin will survive Theon's occupation and take Rickon to White Harbor (and Skaagos?).

I could see that and it would make sense. I think Andy Greenwald over Grantland really hit on things when he said that Game of Thrones has a problem of too many great characters and not enough time for them. Cutting characters where possible and extending the lives of already established minor characters as replacements I think is a great way to deal with that problem.

Awesome Oberyn Martell, on 30 April 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

Not a great decision, using Osha is also the reason for another of my huge pet hates (Yara). But most importantly it's going to change Howland Reed to a complete total shock when he finally comes into it. We haven't seen the ToJ and now we aren't getting the Reeds. So if R+L=J it'll just come as a hammerblow with not even the subtlest of clues in the TV Show, the Reeds should be in it just to get a mention of Howland, I understand the ToJ likely wasn't in for casting reasons but surely they could do the Reeds.

Considering GRRM has told Dan and David all the major beats that will come in the last two books, maybe we should take this as a sign that R+L=J isn't true. Or, more likely, that it is true but it doesn't ever amount to anything; a situation where Jon is told "oh by the way..." and he says; doesn't matter I'm still a man of the Nights Watch/still a Stark and Lord of Winterfell (depending on how he interprets his oaths after being brought back from the dead)

[Ser Hippie]

Given D&D's comments about pushing some characters back to season 3, I'm guessing the Reeds (or at least one of them) is included there, along with Ramsay/Reek.

[Myrddin]

Fez, on 30 April 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

Considering GRRM has told Dan and David all the major beats that will come in the last two books, maybe we should take this as a sign that R+L=J isn't true. Or, more likely, that it is true but it doesn't ever amount to anything; a situation where Jon is told "oh by the way..." and he says; doesn't matter I'm still a man of the Nights Watch/still a Stark and Lord of Winterfell (depending on how he interprets his oaths after being brought back from the dead)

Assuming R+L=J is true and that Howland Reed will be the eventual person to reveal this, the Reed kids aren't needed to set this up at all.

Whenever Howland decides to drag his ass into the story (season 6-8 in the show?), he will just pop out of the bushes to Jon (or whomever) and say "I rode with Ned!" Some established character will then say, "He's right. I vouch for him."

Then Howland will tell his tale. Sure, there won't be much set up in this scenario, but aside from this forum, how many readers do you think are waiting for this guy to appear on the scene from the few brief mentions across 5 books (and 15 years)?

[Francis Buck]

Husband to Bears, on 30 April 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

Don't you need at least one Reed for the trek North? Who is Bran going to talk to?  Hodor? It will be reminicent to Tom Hanks talking to Wilson for the entire Journey.

I think this is the biggest piece of evidence in favor of the Reeds showing up in season three. No matter how you cut it, Bran needs someone to go north with him other than Hodor, and even if they were to have Osha or Luwin (both of which complicate things, especially for RIckon) go along, that still means that Bran only has one person to talk to for...what, the next two seasons? And then Coldhands at the end? It just doesn't work. And I'd bet any amount of money that Rickon isn't going with Bran; there's a reason he was sent to Skagos, and there's a reason Davos is going there to get him. It makes no sense for him to go north as well.

I honestly think the Reeds are a shoe-in. It's not like it would be confusing or cluttered, since the only storyline they'll appear in is Bran's. And the dynamic between those three characters is essential for his journey (and who knows how they'll fit in later on in the story?). The only reason they're not in this season is because they don't have to be. They do nothing in the second book that can't be easily replaced by Luwin and Osha (though is not at all true for the third book). And Bran having Jojen's dreams doesn't mean they cut Jojen forever, it just means they cut Jojen this season and needed someone to have the dreams.

So yeah, I'm pretty damn confidant that both Reed will children show up next season.

[Fez]

Francis Buck, on 30 April 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

So yeah, I'm pretty damn confidant that both Reed will children show up next season.

I know Dan and David have said that some characters have been pushed back from Season 2 to Season 3, but right now we're short on the Tullys, Ramsay, the Reeds, Barristan and Strong Belwas (maybe, not sure on them actually), and the Brave Companions.  Between all of them as well as the characters who are supposed to first appear in Season 3, that's a crazy number of new characters to introduce. I doubt all of them will be and I can easily see the Reeds being the ones cut; particularly if Luwin takes Rickon and Osha goes with Bran.  It's not like Bran's screen time will pick up much in the next few seasons, its possible for him to only really have one talking screen partner for most of that. Plus there will be the episode where they meet Sam and then Coldhands which can act as the majorly featured episode for this storyline for that season.

Edited by Fez, 30 April 2012 - 03:02 PM.

[Brave Ser Robin]

I'm completely fine with rolling the Reeds into Osha's character.  It makes it much more TV friendly.

In the books, Rickon has disappeared completely from the radar.  I've not idea what GRRM has in mind for that character but he's definitely not being setup for anything major.  The only thing I could think of would be as ultimate heir to house Stark when everything blows over.  If there really is nothing important about his story arc, then he could, in fact, be killed in Season 2 without loss.

[Davos55]

I am still holding onto hope that they are introduced in Season 3. I personally do like them, and I feel that they make Bran's storyline more interesting and fun to read. Bran's storyline in ACOK (pre-Theon) may not be exciting, fast paced entertainment, but I love it nonetheless.

I think the Reeds are great on Bran's journey north, and I love his interactions with them, especially Meera.  I also don't really like Osha on the show, or in the book, and I don't see what the big deal with her is.  Was her acting this episode really that great??

That would be interesting if Maester Luwin survives and takes Rickon, but I don't understand the logistics of that. Also, where is Shaggy Dog this year??

In the overall picture, I think a better question may be: Where are Little Walder, Big Walder, and Ramsay/Reek?!?

[Lord Varys]

It's obvious that Rickon Stark is going to become an important figurehead in TWoW and ADoS. Bran is not going to become important on the political field. He is on his way to become a tree.

Rickon is the books for a reason, and is in the TV series for a reason. Despite the fact that Osha could take the place of the Reeds, I'm still not sure she will. With Old Nan gone and Luwin playing the role of the anti-magic guy, Osha has to be the person Bran talks to about his dreams and stuff. But this does, as of yet, not mean that she will take Bran back north beyond the Wall. After all, the TV series established that Osha has no intention whatsoever to return beyond the Wall due to her fear of the Others, so I can't possible imagine she will take that risk. More so, as of yet no one seems to think that Bran should go beyond the Wall. I guess this issue will only come up in season 3 after Bran has successfully left Winterfell.

I very much doubt we'll explore the three-eyed crow all that much this season. There is no time. They'll have to deal with the Theon-Bran-relationship in the next couple of episodes. And I'm convinced that will only reveal the fact that the Stark children survived in the very end of this season, which means that Bran, Rickon, and Osha are not going to have much screen time left...

[Ser Giant]

Would people really quit watching the show if an actor from the Harry Potter movies left for several seasons? Seems like GoT didnt suffer from Sean Bean leaving, I don't know the exact numbers, but Bean is a much more well-known actor.

I think it would be smart of the producers to send Osha with Rickon, if she is an expensive actor to hire it would free up funds for other things next season. Besides, she doesnt get that much screen time as-is and if they really love her that much I would love to see updates to Rickon's journey anyways.