[aDwD Spoilers] Moqorro's prophecy

[highlydubious]

[i haven't seen this theory proposed before. If it has been, my apologies].

So on aDwD Moqorro tells Tyrion:

"Dragons," Moqorro said in the Common Tongue of Westeros... "Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of all."

I want to address just the last part of that -- "you. a small man with a big shadow". Moqorro positively identify the small man as Tyrion.

I would like to suggest that the small man in the prophecy is not Tyrion, but rather Jon Snow.

We know that the priests of the Lord of Lights can misinterpret what they see in the flames, and that they sometimes read what they want to read. Melisandre makes these mistakes all the time, and given she is said to be more talented than most, it is safe to assume that others make similar mistakes. Here Moqorro sees a small man, and Tyrion fits, so he makes the positive identification.

But, a few pages before (pg. 380 in the US Hardcover), Jon and Melisandre are talking while standing next to the Wall:

"...Every man who walks the earth casts a shadow on the world. Some are thin and weak, others long and dark. You should look behind you, Lord Snow. The moon has kissed you and etched your shadow upon the ice twenty feet tall.

Jon glanced over his shoulder. The shadow was there, just as she had said, etched in moonlight against the Wall."

Given the different theories of how Dany and Jon's stories are like to meet, it is plausible (but perhaps not probable) that Jon was part of what Moqorro had seen.

But all that aside, it is more probable that Occam's razor can be applied here, and indeed the simplest explanation is the correct one, and that the small man is indeed Tyrion.

What do you think?

[redriver]

I would go with Tyrion here.Moqorro has been far more accurate with his fire visions than Mel.

There have been numerous references to Tyrion casting a large shadow or being a "giant".

And it does look like he'll be in the middle of it all,maybe a dragon rider.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I see what you're saying, but yes, I think he's talking about Tyrion.

[JayDubya]

"...Every man who walks the earth casts a shadow on the world. Some are thin and weak, others long and dark. You should look behind you, Lord Snow. The moon has kissed you and etched your shadow upon the ice twenty feet tall.

Jon glanced over his shoulder. The shadow was there, just as she had said, etched in moonlight against the Wall."

Technically, wouldn't this be impossible? The moon would have to be lighting him from below to put a shadow 20' high on a wall.

Either an oversight, or old-god magic or sorcery.

[irishtemper]

Technically, wouldn't this be impossible? The moon would have to be lighting him from below to put a shadow 20' high on a wall.

Either an oversight, or old-god magic or sorcery.

Moonlight reflects off snow right? Could that be how it happened.

[Maester Reek]

tyrion is a giant at heart mind and soul inside of a dwarfs body and he may in fact have giants blood

[Ser Leftwich]

There is plenty to look at in the first half of Moqorro's prophecy.

Dragons:

Old -

Young-

True -

False-

Bright -

Dark -

In the traditional three sets of two, like a Quaithe prophecy.

[the Scorpion Knight]

my guesses :

Dragons:

Old - Maester Aemon (the oldest livintg targaryen)

Young- Dany (the youngest)

True - Aegon (the true heir)

False- Aurane waters (posing as one)

Bright - Viserys (bright in the flame of madness)

Dark - Jon snow ( he doesn't have valyrian features and a member of the night's watch

[The Dornishman's Wife]

my guesses :

Dragons:

Old - Maester Aemon (the oldest livintg targaryen)

Young- Dany (the youngest)

True - Aegon (the true heir)

False- Aurane waters (posing as one)

Bright - Viserys (bright in the flame of madness)

Dark - Jon snow ( he doesn't have valyrian features and a member of the night's watch

These are plausible guesses, but as a fan of the Aegon Blackfyre theory, I'd just like to add that in this case, there's the alternative set somewhere on the lines of:

Dragons:

Old - Maester Aemon / Bloodraven (the oldest living Targ / (great) Targ bastard, possibly both)

Young- Dany, Aegon & Jon (the young ones)

True - Dany (embracing "good" values, certainly from Moqorro's viewpoint)

False- Viserys (Mr "he was no true dragon")

Bright - Dany (Targaryen: A red dragon as their sigil)

Dark - Aegon (Blackfyre: A black dragon as their sigil)

[lokisnow]

Dragons:

Old: bloodraven

young: Dany

true: Dany

False: Aegon (not Rhaegar's son, but a blackfyre descendent)

Light: Dany

Dark: Aegon

[Francis Buck]

Dragons:

Old: bloodraven

young: Dany

true: Dany

False: Aegon

Light: Dany

Dark: Jon

That's what I think, anyway.

[Ser Leftwich]

Forgot to put in my thoughts/predictions:

Dragons:

Old - Skulls at the Red Keep

Young - Living dragons of Dany's

True - Dany

False - Aegon

Bright - Coming interaction between Dany/Aegon

Dark - importance of R+L= Jon and his Targ legacy

[Fantôme]

[i haven't seen this theory proposed before. If it has been, my apologies]. So on aDwD Moqorro tells Tyrion: I want to address just the last part of that -- "you. a small man with a big shadow". Moqorro positively identify the small man as Tyrion. I would like to suggest that the small man in the prophecy is not Tyrion, but rather Jon Snow. We know that the priests of the Lord of Lights can misinterpret what they see in the flames, and that they sometimes read what they want to read. Melisandre makes these mistakes all the time, and given she is said to be more talented than most, it is safe to assume that others make similar mistakes. Here Moqorro sees a small man, and Tyrion fits, so he makes the positive identification. But, a few pages before (pg. 380 in the US Hardcover), Jon and Melisandre are talking while standing next to the Wall: Given the different theories of how Dany and Jon's stories are like to meet, it is plausible (but perhaps not probable) that Jon was part of what Moqorro had seen. But all that aside, it is more probable that Occam's razor can be applied here, and indeed the simplest explanation is the correct one, and that the small man is indeed Tyrion. What do you think?

That's an interesting theory, especially since I had been wondering what Melisandre meant there, and it would be the less obvious explanation. I have two problems with it though, with the words "small" and "snarling". Jon is young not small. And "snarling" sounds much more like Tyrion than Jon.

[CrypticWeirwood]

I want to address just the last part of that -- "you. a small man with a big shadow". Moqorro positively identify the small man as Tyrion. I would like to suggest that the small man in the prophecy is not Tyrion, but rather Jon Snow.

...

What do you think?

No, it’s Tyrion, as the most second-most farseeing Targaryen of our time clearly tells us in Game:

“Oh, I think that Lord Tyrion is quite a large man,” Maester Aemon said from the far end of the table. He spoke softly, yet the high officers of the Night’s Watch all fell quiet, the better to hear what the ancient had to say.

“I think he is a giant come among us, here at the end of the world.”

Tyrion answered gently, “I’ve been called many things, my lord, but giant is seldom one of them.”

“Nonetheless,” Maester Aemon said as his clouded, milk-white eyes moved to Tyrion’s face, “I think it is true.”

For once, Tyrion Lannister found himself at a loss for words. He could only bow his head politely and say, “You are too kind, Maester Aemon.”

The blind man smiled. He was a tiny thing, wrinkled and hairless, shrunken beneath the weight of a hundred years so his maester’s collar with its links of many metals hung loose about his throat. “I have been called many things, my lord,” he said, “but kind is seldom one of them.”

[CrypticWeirwood]

• Young dragons: Dany, Jon, Aegon
  
• Old dragons: Bloodraven, Maester Aemon
  
• Bright dragons: Dany, Jon
  
• Dark dragons: Bloodraven, Aegon
  
• True dragons: Dany, Jon
  
• False dragons: Aegon, Victarion
  

[Cheese Pudding]

Young dragons: Aegon, Danny and Jon

Old dragons: Bloodraven and Maester Aemon

Bright/True: Danny and Jon

Dark/False: Aegon

[Fire and Blood!]

If Jon really is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna there in no falser dragon than him.He is supposedly "a dragon" but there is nothing Targaryen in him even his companion is a direwolf. For me he is the false dragon.

[DragonSpawn]

I wonder if a "Dragon-Matrix" could apply...? :) e.g.

Old / True / Bright = Aemon Targaryen

Old / True / Dark = Brynden 'Bloodraven' Rivers

Old / False / Bright = Archmaester Marwyn

Old / False / Dark = Stannis Baratheon

Young / True / Bright = Daenerys Targaryen

Young / True / Dark = Jon Snow

Young / False / Bright = Lanna / Gendry / Edric etc... ?

Young / False / Dark = Aegon

& Tyrion who embodies all aspects mentioned by Marwyn i.e. middle aged / true and false... light and dark as hinted at with his mixed eye colour...

[CrypticWeirwood]

I wonder if a "Dragon-Matrix" could apply...?e.g.

• Old / True / Bright = Aemon Targaryen
  
• Old / True / Dark = Brynden 'Bloodraven' Rivers
  
• Old / False / Bright = Archmaester Marwyn
  
• Old / False / Dark = Stannis Baratheon
  
• Young / True / Bright = Daenerys Targaryen
  
• Young / True / Dark = Jon Snow
  
• Young / False / Bright = Lanna
  
• Young / False / Dark = Aegon
  

& Tyrion who embodies all aspects mentioned by Marwyn i.e. middle aged / true and false... light and dark as hinted at with his mixed eye colour...

Yes, that’s good. I strongly agree with you that a “dragon-matrix’ needs must apply, and that each character has all three of those two-valued properties in one or the other form. I still think bright-vs-dark is as much a red-vs-black dragon as it is anything else, although it could also mean revealed-vs-hidden.

However, the idea that Tyrion is middle-aged isn’t a perspective even a ten-year-old might hold. I believe both Tyrion and Arianne are about 23 at the start of Game.

Isn’t the only way Lanna could be a dragonling is if the Sailor’s Wife is Tysha, that Lanna is Tyrion’s daughter, and that Tyrion is Aerys’s daughter? Seems pretty iffy to me.

We should probably throw in Varys as a black dragon, based on the premise that he is a secret Blackfyre. He might also be a secret Targaryen, a descendent of Aerion the Monstrous/Aerion Brightflame, Maekar’s horrible son who died drinking dragonfire. If so, he would be bright dragon if bright means red, but a dark one of it means secret.

Also unaccounted for is Aegon the Unlikely’s third son, who is still unnamed but is said by Ser Barristan to have married for love. Ser Barristan was knighted by Egg, so it seems likely that he will be one of our links to that time, and to Summerhall. Only Egg’s eldest son, the Prince of Dragonflies, was said to have died at Summerhall. His second son became king, but we know nothing more of his third son.

[jarl the climber]

Its funny that nobody mentons Quentyn obviously he was false, he did claim truthfuly to havig dragons blood and don't forget Brown Ben Plumm or the gaoler Longwaters and Varys might be Blackfyre as well. I think dragons are going to come out of the woodwork.