65 replies to this topic

[CrypticWeirwood]

Why was Quentyn false?

[jarl the climber]

CrypticWeirwood, on 01 May 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

Yes, that’s good. I strongly agree with you that a “dragon-matrix’ needs must apply, and that each character has all three of those two-valued properties in one or the other form. I still think bright-vs-dark is as much a red-vs-black dragon as it is anything else, although it could also mean revealed-vs-hidden.

However, the idea that Tyrion is middle-aged isn’t a perspective even a ten-year-old might hold.  I believe both Tyrion and Arianne are about 23 at the start of Game.

Isn’t the only way Lanna could be a dragonling is if the Sailor’s Wife is Tysha, that Lanna is Tyrion’s daughter, and that Tyrion is Aerys’s daughter?  Seems pretty iffy to me.

We should probably throw in Varys as a black dragon, based on the premise that he is a secret Blackfyre. He might also be a secret Targaryen, a descendent of Aerion the Monstrous/Aerion  Brightflame, Maekar’s horrible son who died drinking dragonfire. If so, he would be bright dragon if bright means red, but a dark one of it means secret.

Also unaccounted for is Aegon the Unlikely’s third son, who is still unnamed but is said by Ser Barristan to have married for love. Ser Barristan was knighted by Egg, so it seems likely that he will be one of our links to that time, and to Summerhall. Only Egg’s eldest son, the Prince of Dragonflies, was said to have died at Summerhall.  His second son became king, but we know nothing more of his third son.

Nor do we know what happened to Aireon Brightflames daughter who was said to be simple minded and passed over for the throne.

[DragonSpawn]

CrypticWeirwood, on 01 May 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

However, the idea that Tyrion is middle-aged isn’t a perspective even a ten-year-old might hold.  I believe both Tyrion and Arianne are about 23 at the start of Game.

Was just throwing a partially thought out suggestion into the mixer... so... bit harsh!? I also figured that life expectancy is a bit lower in Westeros than we are used to... 23 could very well be middle aged! Wasn't Arya training to be an assasin at 10? They grow up fast!

Lanna wasn't a great suggestion i admit... i read up more and edited the post because it's too much of a long shot.. and even then... Quentin might fit better...

ETA: I was trying to include people who either demonstrated the 'gift' or claim to have the gift...

A lot of people have a drop of Dragon blood but not all are Dragons or claim to be Dragons... Stannis is included because of AA prophecy that Mel puts on his head... Quentin could be included because of his claim, which he further demonstrated by trying to become a dragon rider... and you could include Marwyn because he puts his blood in the same category as Aemon... but that's about as far as i got with my reasoning... BBP only explains he has a drop of Dragon blood because the Dragons like him...

Edited by DragonSpawn, 01 May 2012 - 10:33 AM.

[ARYa_Nym]

Fire and Blood!, on 01 May 2012 - 08:10 AM, said:

If Jon really is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna there in no falser dragon than him.He is supposedly "a dragon" but there is nothing Targaryen in him even his companion is a direwolf. For me he is the false dragon.

I think just like every other house there's not one way to be something. For example, Ned didn't seem to be anything like his siblings. I wouldn't call him not a true Stark because of it.

IMO Jon is like Aegon III except he doesn't seem to hate dragons based on the joke he told Tycho. It's coincidental because Jon's idol happens to be his son.

Quote

AEGON III. The Dragonbane. Clad all in black, even to his gloves. A three-headed dragon on a golden chain around his neck. Pale, lean, unsmiling. A very somber look. He looks sad, marked by the grief he carries with him. It is hard to picture him smiling. A short beard, but no mustache. His crown is a slender gold band, no ornament.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Targaryen_Kings/


Sam said that Jon rarely smiles and before Jon went to the Wall he told Robb that black was always his color. Bran said that Jon was slender and graceful compared to Robb's body type. I think he got that from Rhaegar.



Anyways, on topic I think he was referring to Tyrion but Mel's comment may have some significance.

[jarl the climber]

CrypticWeirwood, on 01 May 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

Why was Quentyn false?

Everyone agrees that Viserys was false and he is a trueborn Targ, Quentyn was a much nicer guy but the dragon thing didn't pan out for him.

[Faint]

Young dragons: Daenerys Targaryen, Jon 'Snow'

Old dragons: Brynden Rivers, Aemon Targaryen

Bright dragons: Daenerys Targaryen, Jon 'Snow'

Dark dragons: Brynden Rivers, Varys

False dragons: Aegon 'Targaryen,' Victarion Greyjoy, Quentyn Martell

[Longspear Ryk]

Aerion "the dick" brightflame did spend some time in essos if i remeber correctly

[CrypticWeirwood]

Hm, we also forgot Robert’s by-blows.  Gendry, Bella, Edric, &c all have a drop of the dragon’s blood in them as well.  So does Shireen.

[bent branch]

A couple thoughts I have had on this subject are:

1. What if the dragons referenced are not all people, but a mix of people and real dragons, i.e. the dragons and their riders? Not sure how exactly this would work, but one combination could be Dany and Drogon (bright and dark).

2. What if vision references not six people, but only three, i.e. the vision reveals the three heads of the dragon? This would mean that one head is both old and young, another head is both true and false, and the last head is both bright and dark. Examples of how this could work would be Jon could be both young and old, because he is very mature for his age. Aegon could be both true and false if he is a Blackfyre and not Rhaegar's son. Aegon could also be both bright and dark, if you consider his coloring and if he is a Blackfyre. I haven't really been able to fit Dany into this idea and although there are people who hate her, I think that she will definitely be one of the heads of the dragon (and probably the only head if it is one person with three aspects).

One last idea on this vision. With the way the vision is laid out Tyrion cannot be a secret Targ, because Moqorro says he sees dragons and Tyrion. This implies that Tyrion is not a dragon.

[thelivingocean]

I'm going to suggest a wild theory here. What if "old" refers to an older dragon such as the one Mel seems intent on waking. If it is a stone dragon then it would be a false dragon (also mummer's dragon). Mel is a servant of light and Drogon is dark. Could this be predicting a fight between Drogon and Mel's dragon with Tyrion being involved with it?

Also, there is Summer's sighting of the "winged serpent" in aCoK which could suggest an old dragon living beneath Winterfell (I'm sure you've heard this theory before.) Euron's dragon horn is said to be from a dragon even bigger than Balerion so that could be the "old".

I do think that "dark" is suggesting a Blackfyre though.

[Tyryan Lannister]

CrypticWeirwood, on 01 May 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

However, the idea that Tyrion is middle-aged isn’t a perspective even a ten-year-old might hold.  I believe both Tyrion and Arianne are about 23 at the start of Game.

Tyrion's 25 at start of Game; in Dance he tells Aegon that he was 10 when Rhaegar died; Game starts 15 years later, and 10+15=25, even in Martin's magical world.  As for Arianne, I always thought she was around 23 when we meet her in Feast, if not younger still.

[thelivingocean]

Tyryan Lannister, on 16 August 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

Tyrion's 25 at start of Game; in Dance he tells Aegon that he was 10 when Rhaegar died; Game starts 15 years later, and 10+15=25, even in Martin's magical world.  As for Arianne, I always thought she was around 23 when we meet her in Feast, if not younger still.

She is 23 in Feast/Dance. Even though I always thought of her as older than Viserys.

[Black Wolf Smith]

On the OP, Jon is the first to notice that Tyrion cast a large shadow, so no.

Old = Dragon under WF
Young = Dany's dragons
True= Jon Snow
False = Stannis
Bright = Dany (Red)
Dark = Golden Company ( Blackfyre)

Edited by Black Wolf Smith, 17 August 2012 - 10:59 AM.

[Ser Cornholio of Titikaka!]

Ser Leftwich, on 30 April 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

There is plenty to look at in the first half of Moqorro's prophecy.

Dragons:
Old -
Young-
True -
False-
Bright -
Dark -

In the traditional three sets of two, like a Quaithe prophecy.

Old- Blood Raven
Young- Danny
True- Jon
False- Aegon
Bright - currently unidentified, but introduced character
Dark- Varys

I think you guys are over thinking this.

Edited by darkmaedhros, 18 August 2012 - 04:18 AM.

[Franz95]

Old-Vhagar, Balerion, Meraxes
New-Rhaegal, Drogon, Viserion
True-Dany
False-Stannis
Bright-Young Griff
Dark-Jon

The last part is also about my theory according to which R+L=J&YG.

[the Scorpion Knight]

the Scorpion Knight, on 30 April 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

my guesses :

Dragons:
Old - Maester Aemon (the oldest livintg targaryen)
Young- Dany (the youngest)
True - Aegon (the true heir)
False- Aurane waters (posing as one)
Bright - Viserys (bright in the flame of madness)
Dark - Jon snow ( he doesn't have valyrian features and a member of the night's watch

update:
Old - Maester Aemon Brynden Rivers (the oldest)

Young- Dany (the youngest )

True - Aegon (rightfull heir)

False- Aurane waters (posing as one)

Bright - Viserys (bright in the flame of madness) Maester Aemon (a torch of wisom and knowledge)

Dark - Jon snow ( no valyrian features, members of the nights watch )

Edited by the Scorpion Knight, 18 August 2012 - 11:45 AM.

[thelivingocean]

^Does Aurane Waters ever claim to be a dragon?

[4812622]

Cersei said Waters doesn't look anything like Rhaegar.  Just with similar hair, and apparently, half the whores in Lys do too.

Edited by 4812622, 18 August 2012 - 01:42 PM.

[CJDTrismegistus]

Just read the post and noticed something about the prophecy -

"Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of it all."

If we ignore the fact that Moqorro believes that Tyrion is the small man(remove the "And you" bit), and just go straight to "A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of it all", the snarling part really makes you think wolf.

Anyway, here's my guesses on the dragons -

Old - Dragons in Asshai and/or the "Winterfell dragon"
Young - Rhaegal, Drogon, Viserion
True - Dany
False - Aegon
Bright - Maester Aemon
Dark - Bloodraven

And Jon Snow warged in Ghost snarling in the midst of it all.

[Swordbrother Oakeshott]

I too believe that Aurane will pose as a dragon, hence "and the mummer's dragon". Mereen is where I believe he is taking his fleet, where he will try for Dany's hand, posing as a Targ. Aegon is both a young and true dragon, I hope.

... I hope.