18 replies to this topic

[Dire Chihuahua]

The battle at King's Landing was difficult for me to read.  Maybe it being on a tail end of a marathon reading session made my reading comprehension low.  I'm sure there were subtleties I missed.

Besides the overconfidence two easy victories gave him, was there anything that happened in the battle that could be attributed to Melisandre?

Edited by Dire Chihuahua, 30 April 2012 - 08:53 AM.

[OllieOwl]

Neither Stannis nor Melisandre were present at the Battle of Blackwater. He left her out, but she has some influence on things that have happened before in the book. Like they say, the shadow that kills renly is her doing. But the main reason that Stannis lost was because of how the capital and Lannisters managed to annihilate his fleet, by the use of wildfire and the chain they had built. Without it, Stannis would have got his people on the boats ashore and completely destroyed them. Then it is also the fact that Tywin arrives with the Tyrells when the battle is even.

[vjott]

Some said in the aftermath that it was because Stannis left Melisandre at Dragonstone that he lost (that is, of course, up for debate and depends on whether you think  R'hllor  exists). I'm more inclined to think that Tyrion's planning, Tywin's timely arrival and the support of the Tyrells were instrumental in victory.

[Lord commander_Snow]

what can that red chick other than getting knocked up with shadow babies??? lord of light is ggaaaaaaayyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!

[bmumble]

Lord_Commander Snow, on 06 June 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

what can that red chick other than getting knocked up with shadow babies??? lord of light is ggaaaaaaayyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!

she can drink poison as well

[Lord Stannis Baratheon]

By right and birth and blood I do this day lay claim to the Iron Throne of Westeros.

Let all true men declare their loyalty. The Iron Throne is mine by right.

They will bend the knee or I will destroy them.

[Ser_Willem]

It seems that R'hllor is the TRUE god in aSoIaF world. He's the only god who shows his existence.

[Ser Zanohn]

Ask any person convinced this God or that God exists in the real world, and they can name several examples of how they "show existence."
The blood-crying idols come to mind, but I am sure similar examples can be found for other religions.

Besides, one could say that the very existence of wargs proves the Old Gods exist.

[Ser_Willem]

Ser Zanohn, on 01 July 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

Ask any person convinced this God or that God exists in the real world, and they can name several examples of how they "show existence."
The blood-crying idols come to mind, but I am sure similar examples can be found for other religions.

Besides, one could say that the very existence of wargs proves the Old Gods exist.

What's the relation betweens wargs and the Old Gods?I don't remember.

[Ser Zanohn]

We know nothing for sure, but we do know it has something to do with the Children of the Forest.
Also green dreams seem to have something to do with the weirwoods, and when Bran "reaches" Jon through a dream, he is a weirwood himself.
I admit it might not be as impressive as what Melissandre accomplishes, but there still is something there imho.

[Ser_Willem]

Yeah,that's true,principally the Children of the Forest...And the Seven,did something impressive?

[Ser Zanohn]

The gentle mother, font of mercy, saved Joffrey from war i guess. Thanks for that...

[your grace]

Ser_Willem, on 29 June 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

It seems that R'hllor is the TRUE god in aSoIaF world. He's the only god who shows his existence.

false.  what proof is there that r'hllor exists?

[Ser_Willem]

your grace, on 04 July 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

false.  what proof is there that r'hllor exists?

Can't you see Melisandre and Thoros doing strange magics?Melisandre can see the future on the flames and Thoros revived Beric SIX TIMES.

Still think that he's not powerful?

[your grace]

Ser_Willem, on 05 July 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

Can't you see Melisandre and Thoros doing strange magics?Melisandre can see the future on the flames and Thoros revived Beric SIX TIMES.

Still think that he's not powerful?

what does that have to do with r'hllor?

[Ser_Willem]

your grace, on 05 July 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

what does that have to do with r'hllor?

Maybe 'cause both are red priests that worship R'hllor.

[your grace]

Ser_Willem, on 05 July 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

Maybe 'cause both are red priests that worship R'hllor.

they do supernatural things.  thats all you know about melisandre and thoros.  you should know by now not to assume so much.

dwd prologue

Spoiler

we know the trees arent gods but they are somewhat supernatural. you didnt assume trees are gods because bran dreams hes a direwolf right?

Edited by your grace, 05 July 2012 - 11:42 AM.

[Loerwyn]

As I see it, I think Melisandre is as much a tool as she is a driving force. She drives Stannis onwards, but at the same time Stannis treats her like a craftsman would a hammer - he brings her out for certain tasks but puts her out of the way when she's not needed to unburden himself.

From Davos we get the idea that Melisandre isn't exactly respected nor loved by Stannis' forces, and I think it's stated explicitly in ACoK that if she was there then the victory would not be that of Stannis, it would be hers. That would cripple the morale of Stannis' forces, because they'd feel that she was pulling his strings and once that's seemingly proven (as it would be if Stannis won Blackwater with her), his forces would turn.

Now I think about it, if he lost with her there, she'd be accountable in the eyes of many of Stannis' lords, and when you consider how he treats her, you do begin to think that if he'd lost with her at his side, her head would likely be worn around her neck in a leather bag like Davos does with his fingers.

[Quentyn Baratheon]

Can Melisandre, or any red priets, can manipulate a fire in a large scale? We only saw them doing tricks with flames on their fingers, or the dragonstaff of Moqorro.

If the answer is yes, then GRRM obviously plotshielded the KL forces. If the answer is no, she wouldn't have turn the tides.