64 replies to this topic

[Damon_Tor]

It seems likely that Jon will be resurrected by Melisandra, presuming his wound are lethal (as they seem to be).  I can't think of a good reason why she wouldn't.

Anyway, whether she will or won't isn't the point of this thread.  The point is this: assuming she does, is Jon's oath to the Night's Watch fulfilled?  If Jon does, in fact, die, it appears that by the "letter of the law" he's once again be free to marry, hold lands, claim titles, etc etc.  Suddenly the now-forgotten sub-plot of Rob making him his heir becomes more relevant, along with Stannis' desire to see Jon as his Warden of the North.  The theory that he's Daenerys' "blue rose on a wall of ice" husband from the prophecy becomes more plausible.

[Apple Martini]

I'm honestly not keen on Jon getting out of it on a technicality, unless, say, Melisandre or Bloodraven/Bran were behind the attack and orchestrated it specifically so Jon could be free to do ... other things. "Other things" being something more important than just being a lord.

I hope to hell he doesn't marry Dany. Just ... no.

[Not A Lannister]

Even if Jon is "resurrected" he won't be the same. He'll still be Jon, but getting the Caesar treatment will surely do things to the mind. Just look at Catelyn.

I don't Jon ever truly wanted to be a Lord, or at least in the sense of holding lands like Winterfell. I think he'll turn all vengeful, but not in a Catelyn way.

[Lord Damian]

Apple Martini, on 01 May 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

I'm honestly not keen on Jon getting out of it on a technicality, unless, say, Melisandre or Bloodraven/Bran were behind the attack and orchestrated it specifically so Jon could be free to do ... other things. "Other things" being something more important than just being a lord.

I hope to hell he doesn't marry Dany. Just ... no.

I am with you on that. If Jon is to marry, let it be Val.

[Apple Martini]

Trish, on 01 May 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

Even if Jon is "resurrected" he won't be the same. He'll still be Jon, but getting the Caesar treatment will surely do things to the mind. Just look at Catelyn.

I don't Jon ever truly wanted to be a Lord, or at least in the sense of holding lands like Winterfell. I think he'll turn all vengeful, but not in a Catelyn way.

Catelyn's problem came from being dead for so long before being resurrected. Her soul also didn't have a "placeholder" like Jon's does, within Ghost. So I don't think he'll necessarily end up being like Catelyn if/when he's resurrected.

[Not A Lannister]

Apple Martini, on 01 May 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

Catelyn's problem came from being dead for so long before being resurrected. Her soul also didn't have a "placeholder" like Jon's does, within Ghost. So I don't think he'll necessarily end up being like Catelyn if/when he's resurrected.

I forgot about Ghost being a place holder. Though I still think Jon will be a little peeved.

[Apple Martini]

Trish, on 01 May 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

I forgot about Ghost being a place holder. Though I still think Jon will be a little peeved.

Oh no doubt. I just don't think he'll be a half-crazed zombie.

[Golden Lady]

technically yes. He would bee free. But as it is said above, he would be UnJon, he wouldn't be the same so maybe he wouldn't like the idea of having a family, getting married, he might seek revenge.

@Apple Martini, " hope to hell he doesn't marry Dany. Just ... no. " -->  i'm with you.

[Apple Martini]

Someone, I can't remember who, had the batshit-crazy-but-also-weirdly-awesome-idea that they'd try to burn Jon's "corpse" and he'd walk out of the fire, alive. Not going to happen and it'd be another confusing case of a Targ dodging fire (which I despise), but it has its own weird charm.

[Damon_Tor]

Apple Martini, on 01 May 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

I'm honestly not keen on Jon getting out of it on a technicality, unless, say, Melisandre or Bloodraven/Bran were behind the attack and orchestrated it specifically so Jon could be free to do ... other things.

"Fate" is relevant here.  Nothing in the word of ASoIaF is random chance, all that happens is meant to happen.  Jon's death may not have been the plan of another mortal being, but that doesn't mean it's not part of a plan.

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"Other things" being something more important than just being a lord.

Presumably to be Azor Ahai, or at least one "head of the dragon."

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I hope to hell he doesn't marry Dany. Just ... no.

It's REALLY hard to read the "blue rose" as anything but Jon, so I'd be making peace with the concept.  I really dislike Dany myself, but it helps me to think that Jon will have to make Nissa Nissa out of her.

[Apple Martini]

Damon_Tor, on 01 May 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

It's REALLY hard to read the "blue rose" as anything but Jon, so I'd be making peace with the concept.  I really dislike Dany myself, but it helps me to think that Jon will have to make Nissa Nissa out of her.

I don't doubt that it's Jon. Where do you get that it means they're going to get married?

[Longspear Ryk]

Im sure he woulnt wannt tostay in the nights watch after his brothers tried to kill him

[Lionel Hernandez]

Damon_Tor, on 01 May 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

It's REALLY hard to read the "blue rose" as anything but Jon

I wouldn't be so sure. There could be some information we do not know, or it could refer to someone we haven't even met yet.

[Damon_Tor]

Apple Martini, on 01 May 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

I don't doubt that it's Jon. Where do you get that it means they're going to get married?

That particular prophecy concludes with "Bride of Death" which implies the people listed are people will be/have been married to.  This is backed up by the fact that the first image is of her wedding night with Drogo.

Lionel Hernandez, on 01 May 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

I wouldn't be so sure. There could be some information we do not know, or it could refer to someone we haven't even met yet.

Blue flowers are used liberally in Ned Stark's flashbacks to the Tower of Joy, tying them symbolically to Jon.  The wall of ice is pretty clearly the Wall.  It's a stretch to apply it to anyone else.

That said, the meaning of this prophecy isn't the topic of the thread.

Edited by Damon_Tor, 01 May 2012 - 10:10 PM.

[Prince of Dragonstone]

All I know is that un-Jon is going to be a hell of a lot more interesting than he was before. He's been betrayed by the brothers who swore to protect each other. Kind of crappy...the past two Lord Commanders being slain by their own men.

I just wonder if Melisandre is going to have some kind of hold over Jon now. Some magical bind. Melisandre's power has been growing since she's come to the Wall.

[Apple Martini]

Damon_Tor, on 01 May 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

That particular prophecy concludes with "Bride of Death" which implies the people listed are people will be/have been married to.  This is backed up by the fact that the first image is of her wedding night with Drogo.

That said, the meaning of this prophecy isn't the topic of the thread.

It's actually "bride of fire." And unless you think Hizdahr is the corpse on the ship, he's not counted among the "husbands" even though Dany's obviously married to him. So it might not mean what you think it does.

But you're right, it's not the topic. I've said my piece — I don't want Jon to "get out of" the Night's Watch on a technicality. It feels cheap.

[Golden Lady]

Prince of Dragonstone, on 01 May 2012 - 10:08 PM, said:

I just wonder if Melisandre is going to have some kind of hold over Jon now. Some magical bind. Melisandre's power has been growing since she's come to the Wall.

I think she will stay nearer Jon becuase of her power being better near the wall and because she thinks that Stannis is AAR but in her visions she sees Jon. So maybe her belief of Stannis being AAR may change and support Jon.

[Prince of Dragonstone]

Golden lady, on 01 May 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:

I think she will stay nearer Jon becuase of her power being better near the wall and because she thinks that Stannis is AAR but in her visions she sees Jon. So maybe her belief of Stannis being AAR may change and support Jon.

True...she might come to the realization that Jon is the true AAR. I have this sneaking suspicion that Melisandre is going to betray Stannis sometime down the line. I think it would be great, story wise, considering that she's helped propel him so far up until now. Stannis' end being at Mel's hands would be sort of delicious.

[Golden Lady]

Prince of Dragonstone, on 01 May 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

Stannis' end being at Mel's hands would be sort of delicious.

You mean that her betrayal will be killing him ?

[Blue-eyed Onion]

Prince of Dragonstone, on 01 May 2012 - 10:08 PM, said:

All I know is that un-Jon is going to be a hell of a lot more interesting than he was before.(...)

Catelyn used to be a POV character before becoming un-Catelyn, will the same happen to un-Jon? I get this feeling that if Jon is truly meant to be the AAR or if his 'death' is supposed to be a release from the nightwatch vows allowing him to claim AAR status or even kingly status (if R+L=J is true and becomes known), then given the no-king POV and no-'un' POV precedents then we may have read the last Jon POV for good (regardless of whether he's truly dead or not)....