150 replies to this topic

[greywindsrage]

Does anyone think that it might be possible that the letter was written by a crow. Maybe Allister Thorne out of revenge for Janos Slynt. Thorne knew how to get under Jon's skin and truly hated him, especially after he became Lord Commander.

[Howling Mad]

IMO Mel wrote the letter or caused Selsey to write the letter in an attempt to force the AA prophecy upon Jon.

Edited by Howling4Reed, 02 May 2012 - 10:29 PM.

[Sel(l)mysword]

Alliser Thorne doesn't strike me as the type to lie, especially in that fashion. He takes Jon's order for ranging dutifully enough. If he were to mess with his Lord Commander, it would've been at Slynt's beheading, IMO.

[Jem]

Whoever wrote the letter needs to know about:

• Stannis and his army
  
• Stannis's "Lightbringer" sword
  
• Melisandre
  
• The burning of false-Mance
  
• Mance and the six spearwives going to Winterfell
  
• That Ramsey's bride had left him
  
• That Selyse and Shireen are at the Wall
  
• Val
  
• The wildling prince (but NOT know that he has been swapped with Gilly's babe)
  
• Reek.

I don't know who sent the letter - and it drives me mad! - but I don't think that it was Ramsey. However, I don't think that it could be one of the men at the Wall, nor Mel either, because they don't know everything/one that is mentioned in the letter.

[BondJamesBond]

It's a great mystery.

Wish I could read the letter again but my books are lent out.  Can someone post it?  It was truly epic.

What is the chain of custody to Jon?  Did he get it straight from a raven or did someone else give it to him?

I don't think Mel would lie because she is a true believer in R'hllor and wouldn't taint the cause with those types of manipuations.  She hasn't really lied before in the series.  That being said, the letter could easily be a forgery to get Jon riled up.  But who was truly in the know about Ramsay being a sociopath AND was in place to get the letter to Jon and pass it off as true?  Southern NW members and the wildlings might not know how awful Ramsay.  I don't think Stannis or Mel would use this type of lie.  It's not their style.  Remember Stannis insisted Jaime be called Ser and Kingslayer so he could be completely honest.

[Stop Rhaegar HAMMERTIME!]

Howling4Reed, on 02 May 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

IMO Mel wrote the letter or caused Selsey to write the letter in an attempt to force the AA prophecy upon Jon.

Never thought about a non ramsey sending it.......... makes sense!

[Winter's Knight]

BondJamesBond, on 03 May 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

It's a great mystery.

Wish I could read the letter again but my books are lent out.  Can someone post it?  It was truly epic.

Clydas brings him the letter:

Quote

Bastard, was the only word written outside the scroll. No Lord Snow or Jon Snow or Lord Commander. Simply Bastard. And the letter was sealed with a smear of hard pink wax. “You were right to come at once,” Jon said. You were right to be afraid. He cracked the seal, flattened the parchment, and read.
Your false king is dead, bastard. He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle. I have his magic sword. Tell his red whore. Your false king’s friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, bastard. Your false king lied, and so did you. You told the world you burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me. I will have my bride back. If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell.
I want my bride back. I want the false king’s queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want his wildling princess. I want his little prince, the wildling babe. And I want my Reek. Send them to me, bastard, and I will not trouble you or your black crows. Keep them from me, and I will cut out your bastard’s heart and eat it.
It was signed,
Ramsay Bolton,
Trueborn Lord of Winterfell.

[Gurney Halleck]

I love reading that letter.

[Tewks44]

Interesting, I never entertained the idea that Ramsy was not in fact the sender.  It actually makes perfect sense that he wasn't the sender for one simple reason.  The letter had "a seal of hard pink wax."  Instead of wax with a stamp.  You would think the heir to the Warden of the North would at least seal his letter with some kind of stamp for identification purposes.  Any fool can come about some pink wax.  Although the seal is dubious the information in the letter makes me think it may be genuine.  As we know the Boltons are fond of flaying, and I don't know anyone who could possess all of the information contained in that letter... unless Ramsay flayed Stannis and the Women who came with Mance to get the information.  (we already know the women with Mance were flayed, so it's not an absurd suggestion)

[Winter's Knight]

The sign-off interests me Trueborn Heir of Winterfels -that is Ramsay pushing a very specific button in Jon's psyche.
I would say Mel wrote the letter were it not for the demand that he return Reek.

[theguyfromtheVale]

The only person I can see having all the information required to write the letter would be Mance Rayder. Everybody else would lack some intel either from Winterfell or from the Wall.

[Stone Crow]

theguyfromtheVale, on 03 May 2012 - 02:12 AM, said:

The only person I can see having all the information required to write the letter would be Mance Rayder. Everybody else would lack some intel either from Winterfell or from the Wall.

I also thought about Mance in the first place, but why would he do it?

Mance knows that the whole power of wildlings is already south of the Wall. This letter would bring Jon with his army of wildlings to Winterfell where Mance will easily take the command and occupy the North. Mance wants to betray Jon the same way he did it and finally play the Game of Thrones.

[Knez Snow]

theguyfromtheVale, on 03 May 2012 - 02:12 AM, said:

The only person I can see having all the information required to write the letter would be Mance Rayder. Everybody else would lack some intel either from Winterfell or from the Wall.

Mance's spearwives can know also, and so can Ramsy and Roose, if they had some of them interrogated. Maybe even Lady Dustin and who knows what could be her motivation. Mel could have had magic fire vision of Reek, but it is a long shot. Stannis could knew all of it if he won... Maybe even Theon?? If he lives. He knows Ramsy pretty well after all. But what would be the motivation? Jon could kill him, and he never liked Jon. Maybe Asha wrote it to 'save' Theon, but that is too much of a crackpot.

I think this is best order of probability:
Ramsy
Roose
Mance
Theon
Mel

[Knez Snow]

Also, Mel could have instructed Mance or Stannis to do something like that. Or she could have communicated with one of them via magic. Could she?

[theguyfromtheVale]

Not with Stannis. She can't see him in her fires any more, after all. And we have no indication Mel possesses a glass candle (which would be the fire/blood magic communication device)

[All Men Must Rhyme]

My thinking was Stannis himself. He'll have learned about Mance, Reek, Jeyne from Theon. My thinking was that Stannis hopes to goad Jon into bringing his army of wildlings to storm Winterfell, thus getting rid of the Boltons, and showing the North that a son of Ned Stark is supporting him.

[cuendillar]

I can't see Theon sending it. He had disappeared before Mance was (presumably) arrested and interrogated, so it's unlikely he would have know what happened at the wall. Also, how could he possibly get the opportunity to send a bird off? Stannis kept him in chains since he was braught back by Lord Umber, who certainly wouldn't go any errands for Theon. Ramsay kept him in shackles of fear just as unyielding, how could he possibly risk writing of his own escape if there was even a fraction of a chance that Ramsay would intercept the letter?

[Hear Us Roar]

Ramsay would not know much of the things in the letter. It was Mellisandre or she had someone else write it to mobilize Jon or get him almost killed so she can save him in the next book

[JayDubya]

IMO, Stannis isn't the sort to lie to a friend.  Perhaps an enemy (see below) but not a friend.  So I don't see how it could be Stannis.

Melisandre wouldn't know about Theon/Reek, so I don't see how it could be her.

Mance is an interesting possibility - not knowing how close Stannis is, he secretly sent the message, even though Ramsay is still in charge.  Jon marches down with a wildling army, and Mance plans to take it over and then take over Winterfell, or possibly support Ramsay *shudder*.   Ok.  not impossible.And it would explain the interest in Val and the kid.  

I still think that Stannis and the Manderlys encountered each other, came to an accord and Stannis gave Lightbringer to Manderly, so he could take it to Ramsay, claim victory over Stannis and then Stannis and Manderly would be in a position to take Winterfell by surprise.   The letter is written by Ramsay in the period between when Manderly comes back with Lightbringer, and when Stannis attacks.  

The last possibility is that everything in the letter is true *shudder*, but I don't see why Ramsay would write that unless he's completely deranged, which is also possible.

[Child of Spring]

I thought that Ramsay wrote that letter and he simply lied about defeating Stannis. Because all the rest could easily be the truth, considering what happened during Theon's escape