410 replies to this topic

[brashcandy]

Welcome! The purpose of this thread is to continue the analyses and discussions on Sansa's character arc, based on the insights that were gleaned through the FPTP Rereading Sansa threads over the space of about 4 months. We completed the last chapter in AFFC (see the reread forum for the last two threads), and this space is meant now to act as a repository for further explorations on what we've learnt from Sansa's journey and how we see her future arc developing.

Previous threads of 'From pawn to player rereading sansa': Thread i, Thread ii, Thread iii, Thread iv, Thread v, Thread vi

Feel free to continue the discussion on the final chapter. Rapsie and I still have to complete our AFFC general summaries.

Edited by brashcandy, 04 May 2012 - 06:57 PM.

[brashcandy]

Last post from the final re-read thread on Sansa's arc:

Raksha the Demon:

Ned's downfall shows the peril of putting honor and compassion above all else, even the safety of those who depended on him. While I will always love him for risking his safety to show compassion and not 'drag frightened children from their beds' when he had the chance to seize Cersei's kids and thus check her counter-attack; Ned should have been more mindful of the needs of his own people, which he could have done without harming Cersei's youngsters, only imprisoning them temporarily with perhaps the younger children's septa/tutor to stay with them.

" I don't think making difficult decisions that may involve other people's suffering is necessarily "evil"" - I do think it is evil, unless one is making those decisions as a war-leader or king and there is no other way, i.e. one has to fight a battle and kill people to survive. But Littlefinger and Sansa absolutely do not have to kill Robert Arryn in order to survive. Littlefinger is lord paramount of the Riverlands, he has other places to go, and wealth, and he can protect Sansa/Alayne without killing an innocent little boy. Littlefinger plans to kill the boy to gain more power for himself and Sansa; there's no other reason. Jon Snow had to make difficult decisions because, as commander of the under-staffed Night's Watch during a resurgence of the Others, he was responsible for the Wall and its defense (and that of the South) from the Others, and so he had to come up with strategies to carry out that defense, even if it ruffled traditional feathers. His decision to swap the babies and send Maester Aemon away was harsh, but not as harsh as allowing Melisandre to burn Mance Rayder's child and probably Maester Aemon as well. Faced with the burning alive of the baby and the old man, Jon made the difficult decision to break the heart of another baby's mother and send the old man south to what he hoped was a less dangerous fate; knowing that it would still be possible for Gilly to reclaim her true son someday. Jon seems to be doing a delicate balancing act of having compassion for the people that he feels he must hurt emotionally in order to save lives, theirs or others. And as a commander, Jon must make difficult decisions that will hurt people, hurt them emotionally or physically or both; decisions that can change lives or take them.

But Sansa has not been earned any rank that entitles her to decide whether Robert Arryn should be frequently dosed with a dangerous medication. Littlefinger has no right to decide that Robert Arryn must die for Littlefinger's schemes. So I still feel that Sansa is in great moral danger at the moment, and about to step over a very significant moral line if she continues to condone the treatment of her young cousin. In her last chapter, I did not see any awareness by Sansa of the cost of continuing to give Robert the sweetmilk, or at least no compunction as to what it would do to him. And that's disturbing; especially since it's hard to tell if she actually realizes (as she should, the maester and then LF practically spell it out to her) that she is playing Russian Roulette with this little boy's life, or knows on some level and is deceiving herself, hiding the cruel truth from herself.

[brashcandy]

Maroucia said:

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If Sansa wants to have a chance to survive in the game of thrones, she has to understand the ways of the backstabbers that run the game at the moment.
If she is able to do that without betraying everything that her father taught her, no one will be able to stop her.

This is a salient point. Ned was an honourable man, but he failed at the game because he underestimated or wilfully denied the extent to which persons would go to protect their interests. I agree with you that if Sansa can keep her intrinsically noble qualities whilst not burying her head in the sand about the motivations of others, then she'll be a lot more successful. I think we see signs of this in AFFC for sure, where she's aware that LF wants her to pretend that she's his daughter (in her heart as well as her head), so she accepts this role and commits to it completely. Also, we see her telling Sweetrobin what he wants to hear as well, and knowing how to flatter and manipulate him. So she's definitely aware that one can't be an open book about what one is thinking, and you can't always rely on direct and honest ways to achieve what you want.

Edited by brashcandy, 04 May 2012 - 07:12 PM.

[PureGold]

New to the board but i have to say I've found the journey of Sansa Stark-Lannister utterly fascinating.  

I find her to be one of the most realistic characters in the series.   She was a young, naive girl who thought about nothing but pretty dresses and ribbons and princes to a young girl who is doing her best to survive and in a very brutal world, learning as she goes.

Some people don't find Sansa's circumstances harrowing but I think psychological torture which is what she was forced to suffer a majority of her time in Kings Landing can be deeply damaging (and I think it has damaged her).

And what made it a little worse is that Sansa went through all this alone.   Arya had Gendry and the others, Catelyn had Brienne and Robb, Robb had Catelyne and Jeyne (ugh), Bran had Jojen and Meera, Jon had Sam, Pyp, Grenn and others but Sansa really didn't have anyone she could turn too for comfort or compassion, she (rightfully) didn't trust Tyrion,  the Tyrells only wanted her for her claim and are content to let her be a wanted-fugitive for a crime she didn't commit.   If you think about it it's been Sansa against the world for quite a while.

She's built up quite a wall between her and everyone else and it's sad when you think about what a care-free and sunny young woman she use to be.    She doesn't want to marry again.  Overtures of friendship are met with suspicion and cool courtesy.

She's now in a gilded cage with one of the most brilliant and cunning men in all of Westeros, wanted for Regicide and under the belief that everyone she ever loved or loved her is dead.

And i know Sansa get's a bad rap but I truly do think she loves and is (when knowingly questioned) loyal to her family.   She HATES all Lannisters.    Even one's that are kind to her like Tyrion.   She will never forgive them as a whole for what happened to her family.    

She understandably wanted to dance when Joffrey choked to death,  She took a morbid satisfaction in watching Cersei cry over the body of her dead son and when Petyr talks about how Harrenhall is cursed and brings death to all who own it, she tells him to give it to Walder Frey.

Now she's at the Vale, about to be betrothed and may have to move against one of the stories key villains.   I never know whats next for Sansa and that's one of the things I love most about her character.   I hope she can somehow end alive and happy (though I don't have any idea how).

[Fragile Bird]

PureGold, on 04 May 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

New to the board but i have to say I've found the journey of Sansa Stark-Lannister utterly fascinating.  
<snip for space>
Now she's at the Vale, about to be betrothed and may have to move against one of the stories key villains.   I never know whats next for Sansa and that's one of the things I love most about her character.   I hope she can somehow end alive and happy (though I don't have any idea how).

Welcome to Westeros Pure Gold!  I know brashcandy will welcome you too, but your post is so excellent that I have to say your Westeros name is so appropriate!

[jarl the climber]

I'm a little divided on Robert Arryn and his treatment. He is an Arryn and the heir to the Vale, things are expected of him that he can probaly never live up to. At the same time if his illness is untreatable he deserves to die with some dignity at least being seen to be making an effort to live up to his heritage. Sansa as his cousin has a legitmate right to make descisions for him. Its nice to think Sansa would run off with him to try and save him but it doesn't seem realistic that the poor boy could survive this, then again it could be the best thing for him depending on what his illness really is.

Littlefingers power and influence more or less depends on him being able to make himself useful to these different Lords and what not. Sansa will play a large part in this going forward. Roberts death ends Petyrs legal authority, like Lysas death this would seem to work against him but also absolve him of guilt, what would any reasonable person feel he would gain by killing those 2. The marriage to Harry and her reveal as Sansa of House Stark ends any power that Petyr might have over her. It remains to be seen what he hopes to leverage this into and whether Sansa will oppose it.

[Francis Buck]

I haven't read much of these topics before, but I just wanted to say that I think, from a characterization standpoint, GRRM is playing a very long game with Sansa, more-so than with any of the Stark children. In other words, I think her character's trajectory, and where it's leading, is harder to predict than the others. I believe this is why many readers dislike her story, or see it as pointless, because it's kind of hard to imagine where it's supposed to be headed until later in the series (really not until AFfC). But I think the payoff from all of this is that, by the end, she's going to be just as (if not more) important than her siblings when it comes to the Stark's resurgence -- which I think is inevitable, and to a point is what the Stark family's whole arc is about. She's the only Stark that's really going to be playing the game of thrones, which to me is very important, despite many who think it will be meaningless in the ultimate struggle at the end (realistically, the Stark's destruction is partially due to their lack of power in the political spectrum). And, as others have said, she'll be unique in this because she's able to play the game effectively without losing some sense of honor or loyalty. Sansa's being trained in her own specific style of "combat": Arya's being trained as an assassin, Bran's being trained as a magician, Jon's being trained as a commander, and Sansa's being trained as a politican. In the end I think they're all going to be working towards the same cause (whether they realize it or not), which is the revival of the Starks. This is also why I think that the younger, more beautiful queen that is prophesied to overthrow Cersei won't be Daenerys or anyone else, but Sansa.

Edited by Francis Buck, 04 May 2012 - 09:36 PM.

[Raksha the Demon]

PureGold, on 04 May 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

New to the board but i have to say I've found the journey of Sansa Stark-Lannister utterly fascinating.  

I find her to be one of the most realistic characters in the series.   She was a young, naive girl who thought about nothing but pretty dresses and ribbons and princes to a young girl who is doing her best to survive and in a very brutal world, learning as she goes.

Some people don't find Sansa's circumstances harrowing but I think psychological torture which is what she was forced to suffer a majority of her time in Kings Landing can be deeply damaging (and I think it has damaged her).

And what made it a little worse is that Sansa went through all this alone.   Arya had Gendry and the others, Catelyn had Brienne and Robb, Robb had Catelyne and Jeyne (ugh), Bran had Jojen and Meera, Jon had Sam, Pyp, Grenn and others but Sansa really didn't have anyone she could turn too for comfort or compassion, she (rightfully) didn't trust Tyrion,  the Tyrells only wanted her for her claim and are content to let her be a wanted-fugitive for a crime she didn't commit.   If you think about it it's been Sansa against the world for quite a while.

She's built up quite a wall between her and everyone else and it's sad when you think about what a care-free and sunny young woman she use to be. She doesn't want to marry again.  Overtures of friendship are met with suspicion and cool courtesy.

She's now in a gilded cage with one of the most brilliant and cunning men in all of Westeros, wanted for Regicide and under the belief that everyone she ever loved or loved her is dead.

And i know Sansa get's a bad rap but I truly do think she loves and is (when knowingly questioned) loyal to her family.   She HATES all Lannisters. Even one's that are kind to her like Tyrion.   She will never forgive them as a whole for what happened to her family.

She understandably wanted to dance when Joffrey choked to death,  She took a morbid satisfaction in watching Cersei cry over the body of her dead son and when Petyr talks about how Harrenhall is cursed and brings death to all who own it, she tells him to give it to Walder Frey.

Now she's at the Vale, about to be betrothed and may have to move against one of the stories key villains.   I never know whats next for Sansa and that's one of the things I love most about her character.   I hope she can somehow end alive and happy (though I don't have any idea how).

Excellent post, PureGold, and welcome to the Legion of Super-Sansa-Fans.  You're spot on about Sansa being isolated; she's been all alone in a sea of hostile faces and hands since Jeyne was taken away.  The Hound's allegiance was divided, given how emotionally unstable he is, it says something good about him that he could provide what support he did (and give Sansa the advice that she employed to mitigate the danger she faced), as well as save her life.  But he was not what I would call a consistant friend/ally; and neither was poor Dontos, who only had the power to try to keep up her spirits (while giving her drunken slobbery kisses, ew) while waiting on Littlefinger's orders.  

And Sansa is very much alone now, at the mercy of a man who is using her both to attain more power and relive his thwarted love for her mother in their youth (another ew; he's much worse than poor Dontos, who I don't think had any sexual desire for Sansa).  The Eyrie has definitely been a gilded cage for the Hound's Little Bird.  

I would dispute that Sansa hated Tyrion.  I've seen no evidence of it.  She did trust him as the lesser of several evils, and has acknowledged that he was kind to her.  She definitely distrusts Tyrion; and hates the other adult Lannisters (not Tommen, though); but she does have a moment's pity for Tyrion when he's pleading for her to allow him to consummate the marriage (it's really a situation she was much too young to completely understand, and it was remarkable that Sansa could summon up pity for her naked dwarf husband who was trying to initiate sex with her).  But there's been no hate in her thoughts or words for Tyrion...I agree that Sansa will probably never forgive the Lannister family for what they did to the Starks.  

[brashcandy]

That's true, Raksha, she doesn't hate Tyrion. As we've noted throughout the re-read, Sansa is a lot more discerning in her opinions of others, and she is able to appreciate the redeeming qualities of people, when others might have just written them off. This is why she's able to form relationships with men like Dontos and Sandor, people who aren't seen as worthwhile beyond their primary occupations. Sansa has the ability to humanize people, and make them feel as though they're capable of doing what they never would have imagined or previously disdained and took for granted. Through her influence both Dontos and Sandor in their own ways become knights in shining armours, and little Sweetrobin manages to conquer his fears and walk across the mountain ledge.
When it comes to hating Lannisters, Sansa holds a personal hatred against two persons in particular: Cersei and Joffrey. Now that Joffrey is dead, with Sansa having a major role in bringing this about, I'm expecting to see some kind of showdown between her and Cersei.

[brashcandy]

jarl the climber, on 04 May 2012 - 08:01 PM, said:

I'm a little divided on Robert Arryn and his treatment. He is an Arryn and the heir to the Vale, things are expected of him that he can probaly never live up to. At the same time if his illness is untreatable he deserves to die with some dignity at least being seen to be making an effort to live up to his heritage. Sansa as his cousin has a legitmate right to make descisions for him. Its nice to think Sansa would run off with him to try and save him but it doesn't seem realistic that the poor boy could survive this, then again it could be the best thing for him depending on what his illness really is.

Littlefingers power and influence more or less depends on him being able to make himself useful to these different Lords and what not. Sansa will play a large part in this going forward. Roberts death ends Petyrs legal authority, like Lysas death this would seem to work against him but also absolve him of guilt, what would any reasonable person feel he would gain by killing those 2. The marriage to Harry and her reveal as Sansa of House Stark ends any power that Petyr might have over her. It remains to be seen what he hopes to leverage this into and whether Sansa will oppose it.

Personally, I don't think LF plans on actually seeing that marriage to fruition. In the final Sansa chapter of AFFC, Sansa recalls him telling her that young girls are always happier with older men, and that innocence and experience make a perfect marriage. I'm going to go out on a limb and state that this is just another one of LF's cunning remarks in his process of grooming Sansa for his eventual seduction and marriage to her. LF certainly doesn't think that Sansa will be happy with Harry the Heir (or he might not care, even if he may believe that Harry is Sansa's type), and if he is planning on having the marriage actually happen, then he isn't preparing for Harry to be alive for very long.

[brashcandy]

And welcome to PureGold! Thanks for making this your first stop on the board with that excellent post
I don't know if you've had a chance to peruse the reread threads, but I highly recommend checking them out at some point.

[brashcandy]

And sorry everyone about the lateness of the AFFC general summary. I've been travelling, and won't be home until next weekend, and I didn't bring my book I know Rapsie has been incredibly busy as well. Anyways, I'll try to get my part done by Sunday/Monday.

[PureGold]

Thank you for the welcome guys and I've definitely read and loved the previous "From Pawn to Player" threads.

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I would dispute that Sansa hated Tyrion. I've seen no evidence of it. She did trust him as the lesser of several evils, and has acknowledged that he was kind to her. She definitely distrusts Tyrion; and hates the other adult Lannisters (not Tommen, though); but she does have a moment's pity for Tyrion when he's pleading for her to allow him to consummate the marriage (it's really a situation she was much too young to completely understand, and it was remarkable that Sansa could summon up pity for her naked dwarf husband who was trying to initiate sex with her). But there's been no hate in her thoughts or words for Tyrion...I agree that Sansa will probably never forgive the Lannister family for what they did to the Starks.

I guess your right not hate so much as a complete lack of trust based on who his family is.   I guess I may blanket all of the Lannisters because of that one time she said if she ever has children she "will teach them to Hate Lannisters".    I think I mixed her up with Jon who said he wishes "death and destruction on all of house Lannister".    Which is also something I like about her character in counterpoint to a lot of others, even after all she's been through their is still a strong sense of humanity to Sansa.      She still has the capacity to feel for others and given her circumstances that is an accomplishment in my opinion.

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When it comes to hating Lannisters, Sansa holds a personal hatred against two persons in particular: Cersei and Joffrey. Now that Joffrey is dead, with Sansa having a major role in bringing this about, I'm expecting to see some kind of showdown between her and Cersei.

I actually fear this.   Cersei has become so unstable and bat crazy.   That and the fact that she has UnGregor with her makes me fear for anyone on her bad side at this point (The Tyrells are in trouble in my opinion) and her comment about how she fully intends to have the her tortured to death.   I'd love if she could cause Cersei's downfall from afar.    

But than GRRM had that Hedge Knight that's been hunting Sansa for the Iron Throne show up in her last chapter of AFFC so a part of me is wondering whether Sansa will wind up back in Kings Landing.   Add to that Brienne did mention to Randyll Tarly that she heard Sansa could be in the Vale,  Randyll Tarly who's now in Kings Landing himself as the Master of Laws.

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LF certainly doesn't think that Sansa will be happy with Harry the Heir (or he might not care, even if he may believe that Harry is Sansa's type), and if he is planning on having the marriage actually happen, then he isn't preparing for Harry to be alive for very long

That's another thing that has my curiosity peeked.   LF is banking on the North Rallying to Sansa as the last of the Stark line, my question is how does the North really feel about Sansa.   I only ask because Manderly's Court referred to House Stark as extinct,  When Sansa is mentioned too Stanis he sneeringly refers to her as "Lady Lannister", and I always kind of felt like Robb and Cat had given up on rescuing Sansa when they heard about her wedding to Tyrion.   My question is does the rest of the North (aside from Jon Snow) feel the same.

Doubly sad that Robb seemed convinced that The Lannisters were going to use Sansa to produce an  heir to the North and than murder her and raise the child themselve's.    Though i like to think Tyrion would have prevented this but I'm not so sure.  

I swear the more I think about Sansa's character the more intrigued I become.   There are so many ways her story could go.

[Lyanna Stark]

PureGold, on 04 May 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

But than GRRM had that Hedge Knight that's been hunting Sansa for the Iron Throne show up in her last chapter of AFFC so a part of me is wondering whether Sansa will wind up back in Kings Landing.   Add to that Brienne did mention to Randyll Tarly that she heard Sansa could be in the Vale,  Randyll Tarly who's now in Kings Landing himself as the Master of Laws.

The main problem for the people looking for Sansa is that they know her as a 13 year old maid with auburn hair, of gentle birth, very courteous, a bit stupid, soft spoken etc.
But what they might find is a bastard daughter of LF, quite a bit more worldly, brave and flirtatious, older and with the wrong hair colour. And Sansa doesn't want to be found, and she's playing her part really well.

It would also only be natural for Sansa to head to the Vale since her aunt Lysa was there, only now Lysa is dead, and few people seem to think about LF's infatuation with Cat and that he might have snatched Sansa away.

brashcandy, on 04 May 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

Personally, I don't think LF plans on actually seeing that marriage to fruition. In the final Sansa chapter of AFFC, Sansa recalls him telling her that young girls are always happier with older men, and that innocence and experience make a perfect marriage. I'm going to go out on a limb and state that this is just another one of LF's cunning remarks in his process of grooming Sansa for his eventual seduction and marriage to her. LF certainly doesn't think that Sansa will be happy with Harry the Heir (or he might not care, even if he may believe that Harry is Sansa's type), and if he is planning on having the marriage actually happen, then he isn't preparing for Harry to be alive for very long.

Definitely.

We also see LF dissing Harry to Sansa. LF tells how she needs to win his "boyish heart" and how Harry already has two bastards with two different girls, so he's clearly painting Harry as a bit of a plonker who they can use for their own ends.

It will be really interesting how Sansa interacts with Harry since she has had negative views on him from both Myranda Royce and Littlefinger himself.

PureGold, on 04 May 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

That's another thing that has my curiosity peeked.   LF is banking on the North Rallying to Sansa as the last of the Stark line, my question is how does the North really feel about Sansa.   I only ask because Manderly's Court referred to House Stark as extinct,  When Sansa is mentioned too Stanis he sneeringly refers to her as "Lady Lannister", and I always kind of felt like Robb and Cat had given up on rescuing Sansa when they heard about her wedding to Tyrion.   My question is does the rest of the North (aside from Jon Snow) feel the same.

It will probably be different as a Lannister widow married to the heir of the Vale, but really, I think LF is eventually going to use Sansa for his own purposes, without Harry.

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Doubly sad that Robb seemed convinced that The Lannisters were going to use Sansa to produce an  heir to the North and than murder her and raise the child themselve's. Though i like to think Tyrion would have prevented this but I'm not so sure.  

I know, it's amazing how many people miss the threats Sansa have hanging over her constantly while in Kings Landing, saying her situations was far better than Arya's or Bran's, when the threat to her life is just as real, if not as immediate. And she was also incredibly lonely a lot of the time, and still reflects on how lonely she is in the Eyrie.

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I swear the more I think about Sansa's character the more intrigued I become.   There are so many ways her story could go.

Indeed The Sansa storyline really grows on rereads as well since it's quite subtle.

Edited by Lyanna Stark, 05 May 2012 - 04:07 AM.

[mor2]

Btw, I would love if someone can add some of that Sansa character analyse to her wiki page Sansa. For that matter additions to any of the female characters Cersei, Daenerys etc would be welcome.

[Lyanna Stark]

Responding to something Lummel wrote yesterday in the locked thread:

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There is something of the same thing in ADWD when Tyrion is playing Cyvasse with the customs officer or in the glimpses we get of Doran Martell. There a difference between perceiving politics as a game (the game of thrones) in which people take the part of pieces and actually treating people as though they are just disposable gaming pieces.

Actually there is something in game theory, a kind of littlefinger / The Ned difference, in that people behave differently depending on if a game is a one off or is repeated. When there is a longer context people tend to adopt more co-operative strategies. Everything that Littlefinger does can work - but only in the short term. Who will trust him after they have already been tricked by him? Who would rely on him, or who would think that he would deal honestly with them? On the other hand The Ned is trusted and admired even after death.

This, I think, is a really good insight into why LF is overreaching himself. Even though he mocks Cersei for how she's making a mess of things, he is guilty of making the same mistake in being too ruthless, too short sighted and treating people as if they were disposable.

Even though Tyrion is turning more and more into mini Tywin, he still does not possess the basic disregard for other people that LF shares with Cersei. LF is just better at hiding it and better at subtly manipulating people without resorting to force like Cersei does.

He's also playing with fire in that he desires Sansa for himself, trains her to be clever, perceptive and his accomplice, but him eventually getting her hinges very much on her not ever learning of how LF betrayed her father or sold her best friend into a horrendous arranged marriage. If you think about it on those terms, he really has orchestrated his own downfall, it's just a matter of time.

Edited by Lyanna Stark, 05 May 2012 - 04:26 AM.

[Lummel]

PureGold, on 04 May 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

...And what made it a little worse is that Sansa went through all this alone...

Being isolated and having ambigious mentors is something she shares with her siblings.

I suppose the benefit of being slightly older means that she can be more freestanding while little Arya or Bran really couldn't have survived entirely on their own, (although again being trapped at court did mean that she didn't have to worry about her next meal or where to sleep, those kinds of basic needs which are met by other companion characters in the cases of Arya and Bran aren't an issue for her) so isolation is more marked in Sansa's journey but it's not unique to her.

And this is all Bildungsroman stuff, the journey from childhood to being an adult by means of education and development (in it's broadest sense) for all the younger Starks.

ETA  by which I mean no disrespect for Sansa, her position is at times horrifying and obviously dangerous, but sometimes in looking at one character you can miss the similarities with others.

Edited by Lummel, 05 May 2012 - 04:52 AM.

[brashcandy]

PureGold, on 04 May 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

Thank you for the welcome guys and I've definitely read and loved the previous "From Pawn to Player" threads.

Great!

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I actually fear this.   Cersei has become so unstable and bat crazy.   That and the fact that she has UnGregor with her makes me fear for anyone on her bad side at this point (The Tyrells are in trouble in my opinion) and her comment about how she fully intends to have the her tortured to death.   I'd love if she could cause Cersei's downfall from afar.

It's really interesting that Cersei now has a champion in Sandor's undead brother, while Sansa once counted on the Hound being her protector, but now thinks that those days are in the past. It's like Sansa is being set up as the antithesis to everything Cersei is, but in a much more nuanced way than that word would imply. Now that the Hound is supposedly dead, both women might end up with "undead" champions in a sense, except that Sansa's protector has been transformed from dog to man, whilst Cersei is relying on a monster. Recalling the promise Sansa made to rule through love and not fear, their respective choice in allies is quite appropriate. Sandor isn't the same vicious, bad tempered and cynical man he once was, and if he is to play a role in Sansa's future arc, then her reliance on him would suit her stated goals for queenship. Of course, Sansa's relationship with Sandor is much more deeper and complicated than a simple one of lady to loyal servant, and she's going to have to confront those feelings for him at some point in the future.

Edited by brashcandy, 05 May 2012 - 07:28 AM.

[Queen of Spades]

Finally found the new thread !  
I was looking for it in the "Re-read Project" part of the forum, with the previous ones, and getting completely frustrated at not finding it !

A few thoughts about that last chapter :

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He had come to Sansa in the darkness as green fire filled the sky.

I don't know about you, but this always made me think of a movie trailer :
Picture a dark sreen, with the green flames roaring, real scary,  and suddenly here he comes ! [**insert appropriate music here**] a tall shape outlined against the green fire, his cloak billowing behind him, walking towards the spectator... [**Cut !**] And then the title appears in huge letters : THE HOUND.

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The Eyrie shrank about them. The sky cells on the lower levels made the castel look something like a honeycomb from below. A honeycomb made of ice, Alayne thought, a castel made of snow.

So is the Eyrie the place were she will slay the giant ?

[Lummel]

If by the giant you mean Sweetrobin's rag doll then yes, if you mean anything other than his rag doll then no.  The Eyrie has been closed up for winter and won't be habitable again until sometime in the spring, and who knows where Sansa will be by then.