174 replies to this topic

[Fantôme]

Lord Littlefinger, on 04 May 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

meh..

We see that virtually every lord on the Iron Islands is incredibly deferential to Aeron, yet Euron maintains power over him.  It seems like a smart strategic move on Euron's part.  Compare that to Ramsay's killing of his brother or Gregors, mutilation of his.  Both actions earn them inveterate foes.

... You know I'm not that fond of Ramsay or Gregor either so the comparison is kinda pointless.Shockingly  ,I don't actually think abusing a child is super awesomly badass or whatever because it has a strategic purpose.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Francis Buck, on 04 May 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

I agree that in large part Euron's methods are a form of psychological warfare, but being a truly psychotic and/or sadistic person does not necessarily make one random. After-all, Ramsay's treatment of Theon is probably the most brutal (and effective) form of psychological warfare in the series. He just happens to be kind of wasting it on someone largely irrelevant. I never said that Euron was random, I said that he was psychotic and sadistic. He's obviously sadistic. A normal person doesn't do the things he does without, on some level, enjoying them (even in Westeros). And he very clearly displays, at the least, sociopathic tendencies, if not necessarily psychopathic ones. Just because he's using psychological warfare, doesn't me can't enjoy it. My point about him being like both Ramsay and Roose is that, in the case of Roose, most of his more brutal acts seem to still serve a greater purpose, even political (a quiet people, or whatever he calls it), while with Ramsay his actions are clearly something he enjoys and don't serve a greater purpose. I believe Euron is somewhere in between these two, though he probably leans more towards the Roose side of the equation.

its not ramay's treatment of Theon that makes him a monster, its the random free rider, goat herders and towns people.  And Ramsay and Roose are not the same, as you note.

Edited by Lord Littlefinger's Lash, 04 May 2012 - 09:12 PM.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Fantôme, on 04 May 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

... You know I'm not that fond of Ramsay or Gregor either so the comparison is kinda pointless.Shockingly  ,I don't actually think abusing a child is super awesomly badass or whatever because it has a strategic purpose.

i wasn't comparing them. i was contrasting them.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Howling4Reed, on 04 May 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

Racist no, anti-ironborn yes. I do not condone raping and pillaging as a way life.

that's fine. unfortunately there's no one left in westeros for you to root for though.

[Francis Buck]

Lord Littlefinger, on 04 May 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

its not ramay's treatment of Theon that makes him a monster, its the random free rider, goat herders and towns people.  And Ramsay and Roose are not the same, as you note.

Well in that sense I can see what you mean. In my mind I was mainly considering the situation with Theon. But I do agree that Euron is fundamentally different from the Joffreys and Gregors and the series.

[eyeheartsansa]

I want more euron. the thing LLF keeps posting is just a great monologue.  He gets very little facetime, yet we see that he is connected to other factions in the story - the horn, the warlocks,possibly even Bloodraven.

a really twisted side of me wants to see him get with Dany.

[Fantôme]

Lord Littlefinger, on 04 May 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

i wasn't comparing them. i was contrasting them.

... Which is a form of comparison. My point is what bothers me is the act of raping/killing/abusing one's younger child brother, not whether it's a smart way to do it.

Edited by Fantôme, 04 May 2012 - 09:16 PM.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Francis Buck, on 04 May 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

Well in that sense I can see what you mean. In my mind I was mainly considering the situation with Theon. But I do agree that Euron is fundamentally different from the Joffreys and Gregors and the series.

yeah my opinion, is Theon brought his situation on himself. Other people are just minding their own business and Ramsay decides to ....you know... be Ramsay.

[Francis Buck]

eyeheartsansa, on 04 May 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

I want more euron. the thing LLF keeps posting is just a great monologue.  He gets very little facetime, yet we see that he is connected to other factions in the story - the horn, the warlocks,possibly even Bloodraven.

a really twisted side of me wants to see him get with Dany.

I genuinely believe that Dany is going to marry either Euron or Victarion, depending on how the story plays out. They both suit her sort of weird "macho-badass-fucked-up" attractions. I also think it would be a great way to tie in the Ironborn storyline to the greater whole.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Fantôme, on 04 May 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

... Which is a form of comparison. My point is what bothers me is the act of raping/killing/abusing one's younger child brother, not whether it's a smart way to do it.

yeah i don't care.  He's not my brother. And the Iron Born all abuse their siblings.  As did Robert and Brandon, Cersei, Edmure, Sansa, Joffrey, Gregor, Jamie, The Freys, Tywin.  Its a byproduct of heridtary aristocratic government.

"Whichever of my sons inherits the sulta's throne, it behooves him to kill his brothers in the interest of the world order"

-Mehmed II, Sultan: Ottoman Empire

“Never mind that the bell has been rung just once in three hundred years,” Patrek had told Theon the day after, as he shared his father’s cautions and a jug of green-apple wine.

“When my brother stormed Seagard,” Theon said. Lord Jason had slain Rodrik Greyjoy under the walls of the castle, and thrown the ironmen back into the bay. “If your father supposes I bear him some enmity for that, it’s only because he never knew Rodrik.”

“There is no shame in that. A lord must protect his smallfolk. Cruel places breed cruel peoples, Bran, remember that as you deal with these ironmen. Your lord father did what he could to gentle Theon, but I fear it was too little and too late.”

Theon led the way up the stairs. I have climbed these steps a thousand times before. As a boy he would run up; descending, he would take the steps three at a time, leaping. Once he leapt right into Old Nan and knocked her to the floor. That earned him the worst thrashing he ever had at Winterfell, though it was almost tender compared to the beatings his brothers used to give him back on Pyke. He and Robb had fought many a heroic battle on these steps, slashing at one another with wooden swords. Good training, that; it brought home how hard it was to fight your way up a spiral stair against determined opposition. Ser Rodrik liked to say that one good man could hold a hundred, fighting down.

[Brienne the Beauty]

Francis Buck, on 04 May 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

I genuinely believe that Dany is going to marry either Euron or Victarion, depending on how the story plays out. They both suit her sort of weird "macho-badass-fucked-up" attractions. I also think it would be a great way to tie in the Ironborn storyline to the greater whole.

This is a bizarrely popular ship. Dany may like the bad boys, but she likes the bad boys that are bad to other people, not her. She's no masochist. I don't think she'd enjoy being Euron or Victarion's toy (abuse victim).

[Francis Buck]

Brienne the Beauty, on 04 May 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

This is a bizarrely popular ship. Dany may like the bad boys, but she likes the bad boys that are bad to other people, not her. She's no masochist. I don't think she'd enjoy being Euron or Victarion's toy (abuse victim).

Right. I'm not even gonna touch this one.

[flinky]

if Euron did indeed "fly" as Bran did, it would make me wonder if he saw the dragons by Asshai.  the visions from that dream have happened or are going to happen if nothing is done to stop them.  if he did he might be trying/hoping to draw them to Slaver's Bay from there or to take Dany's to Asshai.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Brienne the Beauty, on 04 May 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

This is a bizarrely popular ship. Dany may like the bad boys, but she likes the bad boys that are bad to other people, not her. She's no masochist. I don't think she'd enjoy being Euron or Victarion's toy (abuse victim).

there's evidence either of them would abuse her. But personally I'm hoping Euron feeds her to drogon.

[Fantôme]

Lord Littlefinger, on 04 May 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

yeah i don't care.  He's not my brother. And the Iron Born all abuse their siblings.  As did Robert and Brandon, Cersei, Edmure, Sansa, Joffrey, Gregor, Jamie, The Freys, Tywin.  Its a byproduct of heridtary aristocratic government.

"Whichever of my sons inherits the sulta's throne, it behooves him to kill his brothers in the interest of the world order"

-Mehmed II, Sultan: Ottoman Empire

“Never mind that the bell has been rung just once in three hundred years,” Patrek had told Theon the day after, as he shared his father’s cautions and a jug of green-apple wine.

“When my brother stormed Seagard,” Theon said. Lord Jason had slain Rodrik Greyjoy under the walls of the castle, and thrown the ironmen back into the bay. “If your father supposes I bear him some enmity for that, it’s only because he never knew Rodrik.”

“There is no shame in that. A lord must protect his smallfolk. Cruel places breed cruel peoples, Bran, remember that as you deal with these ironmen. Your lord father did what he could to gentle Theon, but I fear it was too little and too late.”

Theon led the way up the stairs. I have climbed these steps a thousand times before. As a boy he would run up; descending, he would take the steps three at a time, leaping. Once he leapt right into Old Nan and knocked her to the floor. That earned him the worst thrashing he ever had at Winterfell, though it was almost tender compared to the beatings his brothers used to give him back on Pyke. He and Robb had fought many a heroic battle on these steps, slashing at one another with wooden swords. Good training, that; it brought home how hard it was to fight your way up a spiral stair against determined opposition. Ser Rodrik liked to say that one good man could hold a hundred, fighting down.

  I said i disliked Euron even more because  he seems to have sexually abused his brother when he was a child. As far as I know there's no proof that anyone you mentioned did .And if there was I'd despise them too.If child rape (fictional i know) doesn't bother you because " it's not your brother so you don't care" well it's your problem. I care. For me that removes  every prospect of being anything else that despicable and disgusting from a character.

Edited by Fantôme, 04 May 2012 - 09:45 PM.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Fantôme, on 04 May 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

I said i disliked Euron even more because he seems to have sexually abused his brother when he was a child. As far as I know there's no proof that anyone you mentioned did .And if there was I'd despise them too.If child rape (fictional i know) doesn't bother you because " it's not your brother so you don't care" well it's your problem. I care. For me that removes every prospect of being anything else that despicable and disgusting from a character.

i undsterstand you care the question is why. As Tyrion says, he only kills his kin, so there's no need for you to be worried. There's no evidence of Euron being a pedophile  that will inflict suffering upon the boys of Westeros.

[The Smiling Eye]

At least Aeron's still alive, can't say the same for Gregor and Joffrey's victims.

[eyeheartsansa]

Brienne the Beauty, on 04 May 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

This is a bizarrely popular ship. Dany may like the bad boys, but she likes the bad boys that are bad to other people, not her. She's no masochist. I don't think she'd enjoy being Euron or Victarion's toy (abuse victim).

both of them are equally brutal and awful.. the difference Euron has a good 10+ charisma points on Victarion, and seems much brighter as well.  Euron almost makes me think of some evil Jack Sparrow type.  'Daneuron' would have sharp and funny dialogue... victarion failing miserably at winning Dany over would be a whole other kind of funny.

[Fantôme]

Lord Littlefinger, on 04 May 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

i undsterstand you care the question is why. As Tyrion says, he only kills his kin, so there's no need for you to be worried. There's no evidence of Euron being a pedophile  that will inflict suffering upon the boys of Westeros.

... I have a hard time understanding if you're serious or not. For the sake of debate I will consider you are. The question is :" what do you think of this character" . My answer is I hate him and despise him and hope he dies a horrible death because , among other things, he seems to have committed  child rape.Not because he might do it again. Because he has already. Some" villains" you find yourself interested
in, drawn to, fascinated by. But for me this particular villain has nothing fascinating, charming or anything else. He's creepy and despicable and that's it.

[Cheese Pudding]

Lord Littlefinger, on 04 May 2012 - 08:31 PM, said:

i don't think so. its a quite an odd coincidence for someone with know magical inclinations.

He could have said cliff instead of tower, but it's got the same meaning. And he dreamed that he was flying, right? Bran didn't, Bran dreamed of falling and the 3ED telling him to fly. Or am I wrong?