281 replies to this topic

[Phénix.]

Ok ,so their marriage is valid in the south.. according to the new gods. But Sansa lost her faith in those gods by book 2. So lets say if Tyrion doesn't die and the war ends. Will she have to back to him?

Can they say it was null void?

[A Ghost in Winterfell]

the marriage was never consummated, so she won't have to get back to him. I gess.....

[Lyanna Stark]

She will still be married to Tyrion until either

a. he dies or

b. one (or both) of them applies for an annulment with the High Septon and cites the lack of consummation, or Sansa could also possibly claim coercion.

The marriage will not go away on his own. Tyrion reflects himself in ADWD that he is still married and tells Penny as much.

Edited by Lyanna Stark, 05 May 2012 - 03:53 PM.

[Walder Waters]

Maybe she will just keep her alias as Alayne Stone and never reveals her true identity ;-) Unlikely, but a possible solution.

Has anyone a precedent for a divorce in Westerosi law?

[Buckwheat]

I do not think it is important in the eyes of the people in which religion they were married. Eddard and Catelyn were also married in a sept, and all the people in the North acknowledged their union. Sansa and Tyrion are still married, according to the laws of the realm.
The marriage not having been consumated does not make it unvalid, it only crates the possibility that the High Septon annuls it.

Welcome to the forum, first-time poster Mabel!

[Walder Waters]

Lyanna Stark, on 05 May 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

She will still be married to Tyrion until either a. he dies or b. one (or both) of them applies for an annulment with the High Septon and cites the lack of consummation, or Sansa could also possibly claim coercion. The marriage will not go away on his own. Tyrion reflects himself in ADWD that he is still married and tells Penny as much.

Ah, ok.

[A Ghost in Winterfell]

Welcome to the forum, first-time poster Mabel!
Thank you

[Howling Mad]

Here's to rooting for annulment

ETA Actually I no longer agree with my initial flippant answer.  Keep reading the thread.

Edited by Howling4Reed, 06 May 2012 - 03:47 PM.

[jarl the climber]

Phénix., on 05 May 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

Ok ,so their marriage is valid in the south.. according to the new gods. But Sansa lost her faith in those gods by book 2. So lets say if Tyrion doesn't die and the war ends. Will she have to back to him?

Can they say it was null void?

Mel would say that only a marriage done in the light of the one true God is valid plus the fact that Tyrion did not actually play come into my castle with her. This marriage is gonna cause headaches for everybody.

[Pellaeon]

The marriage is valid, no matter if they have sex or not, the use of the marriage is that Sansa can't marry anyone as long as Tyrion live, LFmust be pissed about this fact

Edited by Pellaeon, 05 May 2012 - 05:10 PM.

[Kambo]

Littlefinger isn't stupid, surely he won't just try to marry her off while she's still married to Tyrion. I don't see their marriage just quietly being dissolved but I don't think it will play any huge role.

[BogginsTheDog]

Lyanna Stark, on 05 May 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

She will still be married to Tyrion until either

a. he dies

What about "missing, presumed dead"? Is there any precedent for that in the books?

[jarl the climber]

Pellaeon, on 05 May 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

The marriage is valid, no matter if they have sex or not, the use of the marriage is that Sansa can't marry anyone as long as Tyrion live, LFmust be pissed about this fact

IMO from what I've seen of the new High Septon you have to kind of tell him to go screw himself to really get any results. You can only bargian with him from a posistion of strength. You are incorrect it is clearly stated on several occasions that a marriage can be annuled if it is not consumated. In any event it will be interesting to see how this ends up playing out.

[Pellaeon]

jarl the climber, on 05 May 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

You are incorrect it is clearly stated on several occasions that a marriage can be annuled if it is not consumated.

Yes but there would be only Sansas word and that's might not be enough to convince the high sparrow to annuled the marriage, and as long as LF can't marry the, he think, only remainig heir of Winterfell, Sansa is usless for him, appart from his personal interest in her

Edited by Pellaeon, 05 May 2012 - 05:39 PM.

[BogginsTheDog]

Pellaeon, on 05 May 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

Yes but there would be only Sansas word and that's might not be enough to convince the high sparrow to annuled the marriage, and as long as LF can't marry the, he think, only remainig heir of Winterfell, Sansa is usless for him, appart from his personal interest in her

They can check Sansa's maidenhead (a la Queen Marge) though, right?

[jarl the climber]

Pellaeon, on 05 May 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

Yes but there would be only Sansas word and that's might not be enough to convince the high sparrow to annuled the marriage, and as long as LF can't marry the, he think, only remainig heir of Winterfell, Sansa is usless for him, appart from his personal interest in her

Well, I don't want to get distasteful here but since Sansa is or was a virgin her maidenhead is intact and can be proven by an examination. In a crackpot theory I have Sansa might have unwittingly gained the protection of the Red God by burning the matress with her maidens blood on it.

[Pellaeon]

jarl the climber, on 05 May 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

Well, I don't want to get distasteful here but since Sansa is or was a virgin her maidenhead is intact and can be proven by an examination. In a crackpot theory I have Sansa might have unwittingly gained the protection of the Red God by burning the matress with her maidens blood on it.

We can't be sure about that, in one of the Cersei Chapters in AFFC she said that the most highborn girls lose their maidenhead during a ride (on a horse) or other activitys, so it's might be more difficult

Edited by Pellaeon, 05 May 2012 - 06:15 PM.

[jarl the climber]

Pellaeon, on 05 May 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

We can't be sure about that, in one of the Cersei Chapters in AFFC she said that the most highborn girls lose their maidenhead during a ride (on a horse) or other activitys, so it's might be more difficult

Cersei would know all about using that excuse wouldn't she   Sansa has not mentioned it. Strangely Briennes is still intact according to Qyburn. My sister actually had something like this happen to her because she was riding a mans bike, so its not bullshit.

[Dracarya]

Yeah it's known that girls can lose their virginity in other ways, horse-riding especially. But Sansa's still being intact would prove that she was still a virgin.

Personally, I hope Tyrion comes back and happily frees them both from the marriage. He's not evil, IMHO, and when all is said and done he won't need to stay married to her. I don't know if women can ask for an annulment in Westeros? It seems unlikely, but in any case I highly doubt Tyrion will come back and search the Seven Kingdoms for a wife who doesn't like him and he has no romantic feelings for.

[Howling Mad]

Dracarya, on 05 May 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

Personally, I hope Tyrion comes back and happily frees them both from the marriage. He's not evil, IMHO, and when all is said and done he won't need to stay married to her. I don't know if women can ask for an annulment in Westeros? It seems unlikely, but in any case I highly doubt Tyrion will come back and search the Seven Kingdoms for a wife who doesn't like him and he has no romantic feelings for.

I think your on the right track about Tyrion, he is not evil IMHO. Its just as likely that Sansa will not need an annulment because her husband will be killed in the battle for Westeros, Meerreen, or against the Other.  Being a widow comes with the added benefit of inheriting Casterly Rock since Tyrion is still the heir.