281 replies to this topic

[Im With Stannis]

Theres a few things that may happen. The Septon could annull it, but I doubt the high Septon would do it- the faith is going to be warring with the Lannisters and Tyrells and are occupied enough. It could be that Tyrion or Sansa dies eventually. Tyron's previous marriage to Tysha was never nullified, so maybe the Sansa-Tyrion marriage is illegal. I think he will eventually run into Tysha. Or, they could just return to their marriage and make it work. That's kinda what I hope happens. I mean, would you really rather Tyrion marry Penny? No thanks.

[Lyanna Stark]

Natalie_S, on 07 May 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

Well, first of all we should consider that Shae wasn't his girlfriend, but she was a prostitute and a former camp follower.
From her point of view, being with Tyrion, albeit in danger and sometimes isolated, was a huge improvement from her previous lifestyle.
She complained when she had to pretend to be a maid, but still didn't want to let her client go. He was a valuable investment for her.

How do you know it was a huge improvement from her previous lifestyle? We know almost nothing of Shae and Tyrion doesn't care either. He is not interested in her as a person, despite wanting her as a girlfriend. he keeps telling himself she is only a prostitute, but he wants her to play at being his girlfriend.

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Of course, if we consider the whole situation from a RL, 21st century point of view, it's not a great relationship.
But when you read a book set in another universe, that follows its own rules, you have to suspend your disbelief and go along with the story.
You may think that in real life a man who has to pay for sex is doing a despicable thing, but in Westeros prostitution is a perfectly legal job, so it's ok.
I think you have to judge a character also according to the culture they're living in.

Even with Westerosi standards, it was a pretty bad relationship since Tyrion paid her to pretend to like him, and then he gets crushed when she doesn't. Shae never had a choice. She was propositioned by the son to one of the most powerful men in the kingdom. What was she going to do? Refuse him?

Quote

You can see that teenage girls are often attracted to ephebic or androgynous types, while later in life they appreciate people that at that time they would have simply labelled as "ugly". They start to be more sensitive to other qualities other than just physical beauty: charm, charisma, I don't know how to describe it, but sometimes very ugly men can be very attractive too.
But for Sansa, at 13, this is too much of a leap. She can appreciate Tyrion kindness but she can't help find him repulsive.

By the end of AFFC Sansa is indeed going down a different route of what she considers attractive, even though she still appreciates Loras' good looks. That doesn't automatically mean that she'll magically love Tyrion either. Especially if we're looking at similarites of what Sansa apparently is finding "attractive" according to the text. On a superficial level, it would be Loras (she dreams of stroking his chest at one point), but as she seems to place Sandor Clegane in that role as of late ASOS, well he's extremely dissimilar to Tyrion in mannerism and physical stature and the fact that she'd consider one person who is not as good looking as Loras doesn't automatically mean she'd be all over any ugly guy just because.

[Lummel]

Woman of War, on 07 May 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

But whether Tyrion is seen as a more or less evil  person - what influence will the different ideas readers concerning Tyrion's morality have on the outcome of the so far existing marriage of Tyrion and Sansa? Will Tyrion being a darker character at second thought make it less likely for Martin to keep the couple together, in which way ever?

There are two questions to be separated in the debate:
Are posters discussing here their own personal  like or dislike for the possibility that Sansa and Tyrion might end as couple after the books are over or at least as tragic lovers at some point of the story?
OR are posters here discussing the plot logic whether any of this may happen and the likelihood of Maritn writing it?...
...So all boils down to what the author's intention about the story might be, since he will certainly not let us readers vote for the outcome.

I suppose in terms of plot logic we can split up the possibilities as follows:

Death
(i) Sansa dies, tyrion free to remarry
(ii) Tyrion dies, Sansa free to remarry
(iii) both die - problem solved

Annulment
The marriage is annulled by religious authority - this probably requires regime change.  Under King Tommen the Beethater the High Septon isn't going to annul the marriage of the two people wanted for the murder of King Joffrey the short lived

Continued marriage
(i) Sansa and Tyrion are reunited and develop a happy relationship
(ii) Sansa and Tyrion are reunited and remain together but have an unhappy relationship
(iii) Sansa and Tyrion are reunited, remain married but are separated
(iv) Sansa and Tyrion never reunite but remain married in the eyes of gods and men

Personally I think death is the least likely category, possible but unlikely.  Sansa is the eldest surviving Stark, the best chance for that House to be politically re-established at the end of the series is for her to be alive and in a leadership role.  Tyrion is said to be GRRM's favourite.

Annulment is quite possibly too easy a way out.  Painless for both characters, allows both to start again.  Very neat, maybe to neat for GRRM.  Currently I doubt this one will happen, certainly it can't happen immediately based the current locations and positions of the characters.

Marriage, we've already seen them having an unhappy married life together.  GRRM doesn't like to repeat himself with the same characters, so we can probably rule that out.  Sansa will probably be about eighteen by the end of the series - will she have gone through enough to be able to love Tyrion - will Tyrion have reached a stage that he would be able to be a a good spouse?  That leaves married but separated - neither can form a legal relationship with anybody else - so that could be quite bittersweet.

Edited by Lummel, 07 May 2012 - 08:35 AM.

[Natalie_S]

Lyanna Stark, on 07 May 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

How do you know it was a huge improvement from her previous lifestyle?

She tells Tyrion not to worry about her previous... er, employer? "he's a small, unimportant man" something like that, so it is evident that she prefers staying with Tyrion.
Then during the books we have brief descriptions of the life of camp followers and it seems that living in a separate house for herself in King's landing (especially because we know that Shae values being comfortable, having pretty clothes etc...) is much better from her point of view.

Lyanna Stark, on 07 May 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

We know almost nothing of Shae and Tyrion doesn't care either. He is not interested in her as a person, despite wanting her as a girlfriend. he keeps telling himself she is only a prostitute, but he wants her to play at being his girlfriend
Even with Westerosi standards, it was a pretty bad relationship since Tyrion paid her to pretend to like him, and then he gets crushed when she doesn't. Shae never had a choice. She was propositioned by the son to one of the most powerful men in the kingdom. What was she going to do? Refuse him?

I agree with you that his relationship with Shae is completely fucked up, and in my opinion is another expression of his schizophrenic state of mind: he desperately wants to be loved and unconciously tries to re-create his life with Tysha (he thinks she was a prostitute), but on the other hand there's a voice, his father voice, that constantly tells him that he's a abomination, that he will never be loved, that only he can hope for is an imitation of love for which he has to pay because he has nothing other than money to offer.
He knows that Shae doesn't love him, but he also wants to forget it for a while, to enjoy what he thinks is the only form of human contact he can get. It's quite tragic, I think.

I agree on the fact that Shae didn't really have a choice, but I don't think that Tyrion never cared for her as a person: he wants to give her a better life, wonders if he could get her married to a knight, someone "better than him" (in his own words).

Lyanna Stark, on 07 May 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

By the end of AFFC Sansa is indeed going down a different route of what she considers attractive, even though she still appreciates Loras' good looks. That doesn't automatically mean that she'll magically love Tyrion either. Especially if we're looking at similarites of what Sansa apparently is finding "attractive" according to the text. On a superficial level, it would be Loras (she dreams of stroking his chest at one point), but as she seems to place Sandor Clegane in that role as of late ASOS, well he's extremely dissimilar to Tyrion in mannerism and physical stature and the fact that she'd consider one person who is not as good looking as Loras doesn't automatically mean she'd be all over any ugly guy just because.

I don't think that she'll get all over Tyrion, but I think that if she was older at the time of her marriage, there was at least the possibility that she could have got over his looks and starting to appreciate and find attractive other qualities in him.
Instead, I think that at that point it something that she couldn't get past: she's still all over the Loras kind of guy, and Tyrion to her is physically disgusting. There's no possibility for her to see him in another way.

I'm not saying that she will definitely fall for Tyrion, but that, as she may shift from a teenager ideal to a different concept of attractiveness, there's the chance for her to see him in another light. Mind you, just a chance.

[Lyanna Stark]

Lummel,

I think you missed one more possibility, even if it is a long shot: Tyrion finds Tysha somewhere. If that is the case, he cannot be married to Sansa since he is already married to Tysha!


Regarding an annullment being "painless", that depends on if Littlefinger still has Sansa in his clutches. As it is now, Tyrion being her husband in absentia protects Sansa from another forced marriage, but if LF under the next ruler can somehow get it annulled, well, then Sansa is in for either a Harry the Heir match, or even a match with LF himself, which would be far from "painless".

Edited by Lyanna Stark, 07 May 2012 - 08:45 AM.

[Lummel]

Natalie_S, on 07 May 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

She tells Tyrion not to worry about her previous... er, employer? "he's a small, unimportant man" something like that, so it is evident that she prefers staying with Tyrion.
...
I agree on the fact that Shae didn't really have a choice, but I don't think that Tyrion never cared for her as a person: he wants to give her a better life, wonders if he could get her married to a knight, someone "better than him" (in his own words)...

It's not Shae who tells Tyrion that is Bronn iirc.

The business about marrying Shae to a better person is interesting because it is Tyrion deluding himself.  He has the power to marry her off at any time but he doesn't.  Of course he has that option and he has that power - but notice that she doesn't, she doesn't get to say well, it's been a year now so where's the husband...Nor does he make a deal with her and with her consent along the lines of you sleep with me for a year then I'll marry you to a landed knight - instead it's a thought that remains safely in his head.  The practical benefit is that Tyrion can feel good about himself because he's decided that he will rescue this prostitute from her life of sin...at a point in time when it suits him.  Naturally as readers we suspect that this will be when her breasts begin to sag and she has some wrinkles on her face or if she becomes pregnant with his child...Notice the power dynamic too, a Lannister always pays his debts.

Sure Shae was a camp prostitute and as such was at risk of not getting paid or being hit by her clients.  Lucky for her then that Tyrion looks after her, he doesn't pay her, hits her and murders her into the bargain!  Lucky Shae.

Lyanna Stark, on 07 May 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

I think you missed one more possibility, even if it is a long shot: Tyrion finds Tysha somewhere. If that is the case, he cannot be married to Sansa since he is already married to Tysha!

Ok, but it has the same effect as annulment in plot terms.  It's an authorial get out of jail free card.  That's assuming that Tywin didn't take care of business originally or that the marriage was even valid seeing as the Septon was said to be drunk.  A slight twist would be for Tyrion to claim that his marriage to tysha was still valid to allow Sansa to remarry, but that is probably too romantic and self sacrificing.

Edited by Lummel, 07 May 2012 - 09:22 AM.

[Woman of War]

Ahem, no, if Tywin got the marriage to Tysha legally annulled then the marriage to Sansa is valid - until annullment.
There might even happen the case that Tyrion finds Tysha, wishes to end the marriage to Sansa and this turns out to be impossible. Only bitter concerning possible legal heirs but not an obstacle to live happily with Tysha, with happy bastards to be legitimized.
Again, all those debates of legality, legitimacy and annullment are kind of anticlimactic and might plotwise be used by GRRM to ridicule the downfall of Baelish's oh so clever little tricks.
I rather believe into a conscious decisionmaking process between Sansa and Tyrion: Shall we stay together, shall we be allies and friends forever - or will we end up on different sides as enemies? No, I think the author will manoeuver his protagonists into situations where decisions are to be made, not letting the "marriage problem" fade away via annullment, the easy way out of a story challenging to write.

Edit: Tysha may seem as a kind of Chekhov's gun.. But actually I believe she is a jammed gun never to go off. I think it is Tyrion's fate to live with his part of guilt towards Tysha, though having been an abused child himself, he may never be free of it. I do not think the autor intends to solve all problems for his protagonists, some guilt cannot be undone, Tyrion may have to live with his responsibility for murdering Shae and his father for the rest of his life, learning or not how to come to terms with his past. And Sansa will some day realize what she did to her father. Again, solving all moral conflicts by punishing bad deeds to the satisfaction of some  readers would be a little cheap from GRRM's side. There is no balanced equilibrium of good and evil exept in fairytales.

Edited by Woman of War, 07 May 2012 - 10:00 AM.

[Natalie_S]

Lummel, on 07 May 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

It's not Shae who tells Tyrion that it is Bronn iirc.

quoting by heart (and from the italian translation):
"don't worry about him, he's a small unimportant man"
"and what am i, a giant?"
"yes, my giant of lannister"
*second round*

Lummel, on 07 May 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

The business about marrying Shae to a better person is interesting because it is Tyrion deluding himself.  He has the power to marry her off at any time but he doesn't.  Of course he has that option and he has that power - but notice that she doesn't, she doesn't get to say well, it's been a year now so where's the husband...Nor does he make a deal with her and with her consent along the lines of you sleep with me for a year then I'll marry you to a landed knight - instead it's a thought that remains safely in his head.  The practical benefit is that Tyrion can feel good about himself because he's decided that he will rescue this prostitute from her life of sin...at a point in time when it suits him.  Naturally as readers we suspect that this will be when her breasts begin to sag and she has some wrinkles on her face...Notice the power dynamic too, a Lannister always pays his debts.

Sure Shae was a camp prostitute and as such was at risk of not getting paid or being hit by her clients.  Lucky for her then that Tyrion looks after her, he doesn't pay her, hits her and murders her into the bargain!  Lucky Shae.

Tyrion does pay her, she has a house, jewels more precious than those of Lady Stokeworth and stuff.
A Lannister always pays his debts.
Besides, I doubt she would have stayed with him if she wasn't getting any money.

About Tyrion hitting her, I definitely have to re-read that bit (I haven't got to that in my re-read yet!), because I don't remember how it happened.

About deluding himself... i really don't know.
He definitely doesn't feel he's saving her from a life of sin (he actually also considers getting her a place in a first class brothel where she would be rich and live comfortably- as a sort of a career advancement, I guess).
But still it shows that he cared for her well being... only that he's too weak to do what he thinks he should do.
He often says that he knows that he should send her away, but can't bring himself to do it because he's in love with her (or at least he thinks he is).
And actually he does make a deal with her at the very beginning: "If you sleep with me and massage my legs and laugh at my jokes and stuff I'll pay you well", and until the very end they both stuck to it.

[Lummel]

Ah sorry I was thinking of when Bronn brings Shae to Tyrion in the first place.

Yes, Shae does get dresses and jewels from tyrion, but not apparently money.  Dresses and jewels are less flexible than money (so she'd need to sell them first) and less easy to carry around if she wanted to leave, she isn't able to wear them once she is moved into the Red Keep nor does she even have access to them (so she can't sell them or practically leave Tyrion without writing off her investment of time in him).  Who benefits - Shae doesn't get to keep them but Tyrion gets to see her all dressed up.

Indeed a Lannister always pays his debts "every penny...but never a groat more...You'll get the meal you bargained for, but it won't be sourced with gratitude, and in the end it will not nourish you." (tyrion in ADWD)

[Woman of War]

But Lummel, Tyrion took away Shae's jewels ansd dresses because she intended to be so unwise to show them off  which would never have gone along with her legend as servant.
Do you really think that someone so incredibly rich like Tyrion would have cheated his mistress? No way, why should he, he could have afforded fifty Shaes. The money, jewels and clothes he paid to her were probably one tenth of his monthly bookshop expenses, i.e. nothing to him, lots to her. No way he wanted to cheat her. He though was rather patronising in not explicitely explaining the reasons to her for putting the stuff away. Shae never felt betrayed but she would have loved to present herself in fancy dresses, a dangerous luxury in her case. Shae has never been aware of the danger she was in and so never took it seriously when Tyrion wanted to send her away.

Edited by Woman of War, 07 May 2012 - 11:30 AM.

[Lyanna Stark]

Lummel, on 07 May 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

IOk, but it has the same effect as annulment in plot terms.  It's an authorial get out of jail free card.  That's assuming that Tywin didn't take care of business originally or that the marriage was even valid seeing as the Septon was said to be drunk.  A slight twist would be for Tyrion to claim that his marriage to tysha was still valid to allow Sansa to remarry, but that is probably too romantic and self sacrificing.

Well, that depends I guess, if Tyrion wants someone else than Sansa? In that case it could be Sansa putting the thumbscrews on Tyrion, but I guess it remains to be seen.

[Woman of War]

Actually, secretly and in cheesy shipping terms, I hope that Tyrion finds a woman a little older, stronger and more independent than Sansa but who knows what Martin intends.

[Lummel]

Woman of War, I agree that I don't think that tyrion intended to cheat Shae, but giving her jewels and clothes rather than money functions as a means of controlling her.  If she was given money then she could get up and go when ever she wanted, but with the clothes and jewels she would have to sell them first while Tyrion seems to control access to them.  As we see she is left with nothing after the trial so she effectively worked for Tyrion for board and lodging only.

Lyanna Stark, I have seen Happy Ent speculate that Tyrion would want to marry Dany...Provided Sansa can prove her virginity she is in a position to get an annulment - if the High Septon or the general council of the faith or what ever it was are amenable.  That is a very big if which she is suspected of being involved in the murder of Joffrey the short lived, it's an even bigger if considering that we know that she was involved in the murder!

[Kittykatknits]

Natalie_S, on 07 May 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

Well, first of all we should consider that Shae wasn't his girlfriend, but she was a prostitute and a former camp follower.
From her point of view, being with Tyrion, albeit in danger and sometimes isolated, was a huge improvement from her previous lifestyle.
She complained when she had to pretend to be a maid, but still didn't want to let her client go. He was a valuable investment for her.

I'm not saying that Sansa is shallow or superficial. I don't think she is.
I also think that she genuinely tried to be a good wife to Tyrion, as much as she could, but she was not in the situation to take care of anyone's feelings because she's depressed (for good reasons!) and on the edge of breaking down.
Still, I believe that attraction is a complex thing, and it changes during a person's life.
You can see that teenage girls are often attracted to ephebic or androgynous types, while later in life they appreciate people that at that time they would have simply labelled as "ugly". They start to be more sensitive to other qualities other than just physical beauty: charm, charisma, I don't know how to describe it, but sometimes very ugly men can be very attractive too.
But for Sansa, at 13, this is too much of a leap. She can appreciate Tyrion kindness but she can't help find him repulsive.

Whether she was a prostitute or his girlfriend, it doesn't change the fact that he killed her when he felt she betrayed him. And whether you judge this by 21st century rules or not, he repeatedly claims to care for her and be in a relationship with her. Yet, he still slaps her, scares her, and puts her in danger. The only reason why she was in danger is because he was being selfish. And this is someone he claimed to care about.

And as for Sansa, she repeatedly states that it has nothing to do with his looks. He is a Lannister, a member of the family that is responsible for the destruction of her own. At one point in aFFC, she even thinks that he is someone she can not trust. We also saw that she was happy to marry Willas and expressed attraction to Sandor. It has nothing to do with her age or that she will better appreciate Tyrion once she can be "more sensitive to other qualities". For Sansa to appreciate Tyrion and WANT to be in a marriage with him, it would require her to disregard the fact that he is a member of a family that destroyed her own, uncle to the king that killed her father, complicit in keeping her hostage in KL while she was being emotionally and physically abused, participated in the forced and unwanted wedding, and married her for her claim. Let's not forget the fact that if he decides to make a claim for Winterfell, he would have to do it while she is left a hostage either in KL or Casterly Rock. If she went with him, Tyrion would be dead within the week. Events in Dance make that quite clear. That Sansa would suddenly ignore all these facts and that her entire story arc would be meaningless is "too much of a leap" for me.

Natalie_S, on 07 May 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

First of all, when he says that maybe one day he'll get Tywin for what he has done to Tysha, it's in AGOT, so much earlier than when he discovered the truth about Tysha.
Then, even if he never state it, remorse about Tysha is all over his chapters. He talks about it everytime he can (it doesn't take a psychologist to analyse that), to Bronn, to Sansa, to himself, he dreams about her when he's been wounded, he's literally obsessed.

I believe you have to consider again the world they're living in.
What he has been taught all his life is that whores get paid for sex, and that's their job. There's no such thing as human rights in Westeros.
He's been brought up by Tywin, who sent his father's lover naked in the streets, and who told him that the gang rape was the correct way to deal with a women that had deceived him into marrying her, that had made a fool of him and brought ridicule on the House Lannister.
At 13, he has no way not only to stop the deed, but also to rationalise it, to understand that his father is a mad man. That's the education he's receiving.
We can only imagine what Tywin said and did to him when he got back to Casterly Rock: he probably made him feel so ashamed of himself and so humiliated (again, he was 13!!!) that probably he didn't even realise that he could (and should have) gone to look for Tysha, apologise, ask her the truth or whatever.

Still, he knows that this is wrong. He can't vocalise why it is wrong, because his culture and his upbringing taught him that a prostitute's job is having sex, and she did and was paid for it, so it should be fine.
But he's haunted by the memory, as only someone who's feeling deeply guilty can be.
He's in a clash between emotions and mind, between what he feels and what his taught he SHOULD feel, or actually what he shouldn't feel.
His father's influence is still so strong in his life and he can't question his authority yet (also Cersei is in a constant, useless effort to gain Tywin's approval).
But then, Jaime tells him the truth: Tysha was not a whore, just a girl.
The little excuse that kept all his hatred for Tywin and his state of mind on a sort of balance ("she was a whore, it was her job, it was no big deal to her") falls apart and he completely breaks down, releasing all the emotions and rage that he had kept in himself for all those years.

Tyrion does very bad things, but still I can't see him as an evil character.
I see only as a person who got through an awful lot of horrible things (his childhood, his education, lack of affection from his family, the way he's treated by his father, the constant way in which he constantly remind him that no one could ever love him but only be interested in fool him to get his money or to harm the Lannister family etc...).
He's part light and part shadow, but I believe that the good in him is stronger than his dark side.
He's in a really dark place in ADWD, but I think that he will eventually overcome all this and end up doing something really good and heroic in the future books.

No one, whether a whore or not, deserves what happened to Tysha. He knew she did not consent to that, he knew that she did not want to do participate. It was a gang rape, there is no other way to describe it. Again, you are correct he expresses remorse about it. But, its because he feels that she lied and betrayed him - further proof that he is not loveable. It has nothing to do with feeling that his actions or what was done to her was wrong. He changes his mind once Jaime tells him the truth.  It's why he lies to his brother about killing Joffrey and goes after his father.

I don't recall anyone claiming that Tyrion is an evil character. He is a man, like everyone else in the story, who has done both good and bad things. He has suffered, you are correct. But that does not give him a free pass to commit rape or murder or force a child in to a marriage against her will.

Natalie_S, on 07 May 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

I don't think that she'll get all over Tyrion, but I think that if she was older at the time of her marriage, there was at least the possibility that she could have got over his looks and starting to appreciate and find attractive other qualities in him.
Instead, I think that at that point it something that she couldn't get past: she's still all over the Loras kind of guy, and Tyrion to her is physically disgusting. There's no possibility for her to see him in another way.

I'm not saying that she will definitely fall for Tyrion, but that, as she may shift from a teenager ideal to a different concept of attractiveness, there's the chance for her to see him in another light. Mind you, just a chance.

Again, it has nothing to do with his looks, Sansa's own thoughts do not support that. Sansa during the wedding:

    <i>He's not so bad as the rest of them</i>

    <i>I don't want any Lannister</i>

<i>Tyrell or Lannister it makes no matter, it's not me they want, only my claim.</i>

[WhiteWalder]

I'm leaning on the marriage is null and void because it was not cosummated.  Although Littlefinger is going to be pissed when he marries Sansa to Harrold, and then Rickon shows up with Davos.

[Fae Boleyn]

Why do I keep seeing some responses here supporting a Tyrion/Tysha reunion? How by any stretch of the imagination can that be good for either of them after what happened?

As for the point of this thread, assuming both Tyrion and Sansa live to the end of the series, I do not think Tommen will be on the throne. So a regime change is likely, and in that situation they could get an annulment if they want. The marriage wasn't consummated, so there's the reason right there. There's a possibility they will stay married - likely for reasons that don't yet exist - but as things stand I find it unlikely.

[romantic]

If Sansa is caught and faces trial I could see Cersei insisting on an annulment because she doesn't want the Lannister name dragged through the mud.

I think Tyrion needs someone wittier and more extrovert than Sansa. His brain needs as good a workout as his genitals.

[Lord Damian]

If Sansa loses her maidenhead to someone other than Tyrion, how could she ever prove that it was not Tyrion that took it?
This would be harder to argue than cersei claiming all 3 kids were Roberts when we know they are Jaime's, despite the common great book of the major houses with physical descriptions of all high born that just seems to be available in any castle just like a bible in every hotel.

[kwvapor]

Crackpot--just because Tyrion has potential in the Vale--army-wise.  Remember all his allies?

Word gets out that Sansa is in the Vale and will be marrying Harry the Heir.  Sansa meets Harry and doesn't reveal who she is to him immediately and Harry treats her like dirt cause she's a bastard.  Harry then finds out who she really is and does a 180.  This gives Sansa an epiphany, "I don't want to marry this bastard."  With politeness she spreads rumors around that her husband is still alive and it would be a taint to Harry's honor if they married while she was still married.  

Harry the Imp Hunter sends word out.  Tyrion puts 1 and 2 together and thinks to himself that Sansa is not free to make her own choices and wants her to make it for herself.  The Second Sons sign an agreement for lands and lordships in the territories of CR if they help him free his wife.  Lord Bonn joins up with Tyrion with his personal army.  The Second Sons meetup with Tyrion's old crew in the Vale.  The ones who got all the upgraded armor and steel.  

Shit hits the fan. Tyrion says you are free, would you like me to escort you home?  I'd have to go to war again for you but you are my legal wife.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

romantic, on 07 May 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

If Sansa is caught and faces trial I could see Cersei insisting on an annulment because she doesn't want the Lannister name dragged through the mud.

I think Tyrion needs someone wittier and more extrovert than Sansa. His brain needs as good a workout as his genitals.

Indeed.  Most of the emphasis is on Sansa's unhappiness in the marriage, but Tyrion is miserable too.  Why the hell would either of them want to return to that sad situation?

If Tyrion returns as Dany's Hand, or somehow manages to take Casterly Rock, he won't need Sansa's claim to Winterfell (which she probably won't have too much longer) and he won't be under his father's thumb.  He should therefore have a lot more options in girlfriends and wives and the freedom to choose among them.  Why would he want to continue a marriage to a woman -- girl, really -- who said she'd never want to sleep with him, has no discernible sense of humor or intellectual curiosity, can barely bring herself to talk to him, and, by then, most probably has no claim to Winterfell?   Nope, Tyrion can do better, or at least, better for him.

At the end of AFFC Sansa wanted nothing more than to be left alone.  She should get her wish.