281 replies to this topic

[Miriamele]

I wonder if Tyrion's marriage to Tysha was really legally annuled, or his father lied to him. I mean Tywin probably didn't want to publicize his son's marriage to a poor girl. So maybe he just thought, getting rid of her and threatening the local septon to silence was enough.
If the marriage is actually valid and Tysha turns up alive, Sansa is not his wife at all.

[Manderly is Boss]

If the North can successfully declare itself as a separate kingdom that might change things, a Stark as a King in the North could declare it null and void.

[Gurkhal]

ManderlyIsBoss, on 06 May 2012 - 01:52 AM, said:

If the North can successfully declare itself as a separate kingdom that might change things, a Stark as a King in the North could declare it null and void.

Untill the Iron Throne comes along to squash them and make Winterfell a ruin. And then its back to normal again, if Sansa has survived the sack of Winterfell that is.

In the case of the marriage its all in the eyes of the beholders. Those who wants Tyrion and Sansa to be married will consider the marriage legal as the High Septon hasn't annuled it while those who do not want them to be married will claim that since the marriage wasn't consumated it isn't binding.

[Pellaeon]

Miriamele, on 06 May 2012 - 12:21 AM, said:

I wonder if Tyrion's marriage to Tysha was really legally annuled, or his father lied to him. I mean Tywin probably didn't want to publicize his son's marriage to a poor girl. So maybe he just thought, getting rid of her and threatening the local septon to silence was enough.
If the marriage is actually valid and Tysha turns up alive, Sansa is not his wife at all.

I don't believe Tywin would let something that importand unresolved, especial when one of his familymembers are of consurn, uf he couldn't anuled the marriage, he would have killed Tysha to make sure Tyrion is free for a appropiate marriage. Maybe the westerosi know the princeible of misalliance, and it's a reaso for an undoing

[Manderly is Boss]

Gurkhal, on 06 May 2012 - 02:05 AM, said:

Untill the Iron Throne comes along to squash them and make Winterfell a ruin. And then its back to normal again, if Sansa has survived the sack of Winterfell that is.

In the case of the marriage its all in the eyes of the beholders. Those who wants Tyrion and Sansa to be married will consider the marriage legal as the High Septon hasn't annuled it while those who do not want them to be married will claim that since the marriage wasn't consumated it isn't binding.

But consider the upcoming situation, it is now Winter and there isn't any record I'm aware of where a southron force has occupied the North. For the Iron Throne to invade the North in winter could be extremely challenging. The only person I could see taking the North in Winter would be someone with dragons.

[Pellaeon]

ManderlyIsBoss, on 06 May 2012 - 03:14 AM, said:

But consider the upcoming situation, it is now Winter and there isn't any record I'm aware of where a southron force has occupied the North. For the Iron Throne to invade the North in winter could be extremely challenging. The only person I could see taking the North in Winter would be someone with dragons.

I don't think so, we don't  how dragons react to cold, it's warm in Essos, nobody ever invade the north and hold it, i can't believe this would change

[Hear Us Roar]

It is easily annulled, that is easy enough. Margery has been married 3 times now, not a hard thing

[Manderly is Boss]

Pellaeon, on 06 May 2012 - 03:18 AM, said:

I don't think so, we don't  how dragons react to cold, it's warm in Essos, nobody ever invade the north and hold it, i can't believe this would change

Well we know dragons have been in the North before at the very least, whether that was in winter or not who knows. But I figured if someone could invade/occupy the North it would have to be with dragons. It's so vast though that guerrila warfare would bleed most armies, similar to the way Dorne managed to keep itself from invasion.

[Lummel]

Hear Us Roar, on 06 May 2012 - 03:33 AM, said:

It is easily annulled, that is easy enough. Margery has been married 3 times now, not a hard thing

Margery's been married three times because her first two husbands died which is a bit different!

[Gurkhal]

ManderlyIsBoss, on 06 May 2012 - 03:14 AM, said:

But consider the upcoming situation, it is now Winter and there isn't any record I'm aware of where a southron force has occupied the North. For the Iron Throne to invade the North in winter could be extremely challenging. The only person I could see taking the North in Winter would be someone with dragons.

That's true and I think I made a poor choice of words. I can't deny that I would  be suicide to invade the North during the winter but the winter will end and when it does several years of summer will come. Also note that the Northmen are the ones struck hardest by the winter and I don't think that they can hope to take on the rest of Westeros. With dragons it will be like bombing an enemy without AA or fighters with nuclear weapons - slaughter.

[Dracarya]

Howling4Reed, on 05 May 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

I think your on the right track about Tyrion, he is not evil IMHO. Its just as likely that Sansa will not need an annulment because her husband will be killed in the battle for Westeros, Meerreen, or against the Other.  Being a widow comes with the added benefit of inheriting Casterly Rock since Tyrion is still the heir.

My friend! Tyrion cannot die! That situation would change things so much, and with a Stark ruling the Westerlands, it'd start to look like a 'Starks take over the world' job, which isn't particularly what I want to happen.

[just an Other]

Gurkhal, on 06 May 2012 - 04:08 AM, said:

That's true and I think I made a poor choice of words. I can't deny that I would  be suicide to invade the North during the winter but the winter will end and when it does several years of summer will come. Also note that the Northmen are the ones struck hardest by the winter and I don't think that they can hope to take on the rest of Westeros. With dragons it will be like bombing an enemy without AA or fighters with nuclear weapons - slaughter.

At the moment the Iron Throne is collapsing. And the books specifically state that the North has thrown back invasions from the South on numerous occasions. If you notice the boundaries of the original seven kingdoms besides the Reach and the Riverlands (which was not considered a kingdom) are chokeholds and strong defensive positions. The Neck, the mountains of the Moon, the hills in the west, the mountains of Dorne, the Kingswood and obviously the Iron islands. Obviously conquests were limited by geography, until dragons. Still you are assuming that anyone will have contol over all three dragons. We will have to see how that works out.

[Woman of War]

All this debate about annullment..... Sansa will be very happy to be married to a husband far, far away so no one can use her again and trade her like cattle into another marriage. She will insist herself on having lost her virginity, thus being married for her own protection. And if she will ever want to run off with whatever lover I doubt Tyrion will keep her in the cellars of Casterly Rock to be tortured on a daily basis, i.e.  finally Sansa will be free to go whereever she wants, whether Tyrion and Sansa find a way to end the marriage or not. Though none of two might be the rich spoiled kid with infinite income from their families any longer , they both might be forced to do something useful for their living.
It might well be that Martin decides to keep the marriage up for plot reasons until either Sansa or Tyrion or both die or, for whatever reason, they stay together, surviving both.
And it may as well be that Tyrion is the one who would want to get out in a honorable way of any obligation towards Sansa because he has found another love interest..... (oh no, I will stop even speculating about "shipping" before it gets cheesy and stupid)

[Lummel]

Woman of War, on 06 May 2012 - 05:46 AM, said:

All this debate about annullment..... Sansa will be very happy to be married to a husband far, far away so no one can use her again and trade her like cattle into another marriage...

I agree with this, her marriage protects her.  Her value to all the other graspers and schemers in Westeros is as a claiment to Winterfell, but she's denied to all of them so long as she is safely married to Tyrion.

[Sun]

Sansa and Tyrion are still married, and shall remain so until one of them dies, or the marriage is legally dissolved.

Edited by Sun, 06 May 2012 - 06:25 AM.

[VaramyrSixchins]

Yeah, but the dissolution can't take place until she reveals herself. That can't take place until she's cleared for Joff's murder. THAT can't take place until Cersi is out of power, which can't take place until Cersi's champion loses. Obviously, the marriage will remain in effect until Robert Strong is defeated by Kevin Bacon. (Sorry, got on a degree-seperation roll there)

[Blisscraft]

It seems lack of consumation is a ground for annulment in Westeros.  Cercei agrees to Tommen's marriage to Margery for this reason.  So, Sansa could use lack of consumation as a ground for annulment.  Whether she will want to annul her marriage is another question.

As for Tyrion being the heir to Casterly Rock, (under common law) kinslayers cannot inherit.

[Lummel]

Margery does not get an annulment.  Neither of Margery's marriages were annulled, both were considered binding - she was widowed which is different, an annulment is a declaration that the marriage was invalid and didn't exist, which is different from a divorce (the marriage existed but is legally recognised to have ended) or from being a widow (the marriage existed but is over because the husband is dead).

[Lyeder]

Yes, but Cersei accepts that she marries Tommen because Jaime reminds her that the marriage can not be consumated for years and thus will be easily annuled.

Sansa and Tyrion will stay married and once he comes back, Sansa has seen so much of other, much more evil man that she will actually love Tyrion... he is cleared of all charges of Joffrey's murder, nobody gives a rat's arse about Tywin - Cersei has gone completely mad and Jaime wants to marry Brienne...

Sansa and Tyrion have many little hobbits and live happily ever after.

[Pellaeon]

Blisscraft, on 06 May 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

As for Tyrion being the heir to Casterly Rock, (under common law) kinslayers cannot inherit.

As long as he isn't pardon, maybe by a certain Queen