194 replies to this topic

[King Bolton 1990]

There is a mystery surrounding Qyburn's creation Robert Strong is he a living being or simply a suit of armor that moves around at the command of his master with the use of some sort of blood magic or is Gregor Cleagane in there somewhere. It is obvious that Qyburn used Gregor for some part of his creation but the fact than Doran Martell has his head on mantle leads me to believe that  Robert Strong is either headless and uses what was left of Gregor's body and several of Qyburns other test subjects to create a freakish body controlled by magic or that somehow Gregor is alive but has been turned into an even more badass killing machine than he already was. I like to hear other theories on what people think Robert Strong is and what you think will happen to him/it and Qyburrn in TWOW.

[Fire Eater]

The body is Gregor's without the head, and Qyburn has used some form of necromancy to control the corpse. He could be using something obtained from the other subjects to possibly maintain Robert Strong.

From Bran's dream in AGoT:

Quote

Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood.

Edited by Fire Eater, 06 May 2012 - 02:36 PM.

[Kings In The North]

Maybe I missed something in the book, but I'm not totally convinced that the Martell's received Gregor's actual head. It could have just been a giants skull. I also wonder if the Faith will start questioning who Robert Strong is, and if he's some sort of demon.. I would think that the Faith wouldn't necessarily be too happy with that sort of necromancy being used in their holy trials.. If mean, it's pretty obvious that Robert Strong isn't a normal human being, and a wonder if that will complicate things even if Robert Strong wins his trial by combat.

[alienarea]

It could also be a guy without a tongue in a larger armor.

[Blackfyre Bob]

alienarea, on 06 May 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

It could also be a guy without a tongue in a larger armor.

One who never eats, sleeps, or uses the privy.....

[STANN1SBARATHEON]

You may have missed it, but at some point in A Feast For Crows, Cersi Lannister recieves a dwarf's head in an ornate box, she put a hit out on Tyrion after he escaped King's Landing.  This particular dwarf's head was unusually large,

later on when we are in Dorne and Gregor's supposed head is shown to all of the Dornish court, it is described as arriving in a box that matches the description of the box the dwarf's head cam in earlier, the Lannisters have passed it off as Gregor's because Qyburn has secretly necromanced Gregor in the black cells and brought him back to life, they even mention at one point that no one ever sees Gregor being beheaded, nor does his body resurface after the trial by combat against the Red Viper, but Gregor's wailing death cries could be heard throughout the castle for days after, death cries? or cries of torment from a horrible soul being brought back to life?  (ominous music)

[Knight ofthe Laughing Tree]

STANN1SBARATHEON, on 06 May 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

later on when we are in Dorne and Gregor's supposed head is shown to all of the Dornish court, it is described as arriving in a box that matches the description of the box the dwarf's head cam in

I'd forgotten that it was described as usually large-- and missed that it was the same box.... very interesting catch.... I've wondered if Gregorstein has the Red Viper's head.  Since the Red Viper rocks, this would really be a most terrible place for his head to be placed, and I hope it isn't so.

[Fire Eater]

STANN1SBARATHEON, on 06 May 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

You may have missed it, but at some point in A Feast For Crows, Cersi Lannister recieves a dwarf's head in an ornate box, she put a hit out on Tyrion after he escaped King's Landing.  This particular dwarf's head was unusually large,

later on when we are in Dorne and Gregor's supposed head is shown to all of the Dornish court, it is described as arriving in a box that matches the description of the box the dwarf's head cam in earlier, the Lannisters have passed it off as Gregor's because Qyburn has secretly necromanced Gregor in the black cells and brought him back to life, they even mention at one point that no one ever sees Gregor being beheaded, nor does his body resurface after the trial by combat against the Red Viper, but Gregor's wailing death cries could be heard throughout the castle for days after, death cries? or cries of torment from a horrible soul being brought back to life?  (ominous music)

AFfC Cersei IV:

Quote

"Have you attended to that little task i sent you?"
"I have, Your Grace. I am sorry that it took so long. Such a large head. It took the beetles many hours to clean the flesh. By way of pardon, I have lined a box of ebony and silver felt, to make a fitting presentation for the skull."

The Tyroshi presenting the dwarf head doesn't come until Cersei VIII.

Edited by Fire Eater, 06 May 2012 - 11:00 PM.

[Lpearce7]

I was gonna start a thread asking this question, but it seems like everyone agrees it has to be Gregor's body w/ either no head, or another person's head attached, or possibly even his own head(in which case the one the Martell's received was not Gregor's.)

But then the question is, how well will he perform? I know Qyburn says "An undefeated champion," but who is undefeated, Gregor or the Qyburnstein creation?

Because I was thinking about the dead that came back to life in at the Wall. They were all threatening yes, but they were really like zomies in that they moved slow and were pretty much dead to the world. But Cersei seems pretty confident, although she has no other hope besides the creation

[Prince of the North]

Lpearce7, on 24 May 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

But then the question is, how well will he perform? I know Qyburn says "An undefeated champion," but who is undefeated, Gregor or the Qyburnstein creation? Because I was thinking about the dead that came back to life in at the Wall. They were all threatening yes, but they were really like zomies in that they moved slow and were pretty much dead to the world. But Cersei seems pretty confident, although she has no other hope besides the creation

I may be misremembering but I thought Qyburn said he had an "undefeatable" champion, not an "undefeated" one.  I think Qyburn was just being very confident (perhaps over confident?) about his creation.  I mean, Gregor was already freakishly strong when he was alive.  I wonder how strong Gregorstein is?!  Also, Robert Strong doesn't move slowly/woodenly like a zombie.  If you remember, toward the end of Cercei's walk of shame, he gathered her up in his arms like a baby, surprisingly gently, and took her inside.  I do think, however, that Qyburn somehow controls Robert Strong and that will ultimately be how he is defeated.  I think as Qyburn goes so goes his creation.

[lysmonger]

too bad there won't be an actual trial. The faith would be morons to actually put anyone against robert strong. And it just happens that Kevin Lannister is dead which will save cersei from being tried. THe faith know they don't want to lose a guy fighting unGregor but using the "there is a reason why cersei is being insane with all of her relatives" and "whats best for Tommen" will get them from actually trying cersei.
Here is something more interesting though, how Cersei is going to fuck the faith up with Robert Strong.

Edited by lysmonger, 25 May 2012 - 01:27 PM.

[Lpearce7]

Prince of the North, on 24 May 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

I may be misremembering but I thought Qyburn said he had an "undefeatable" champion, not an "undefeated" one. I think Qyburn was just being very confident (perhaps over confident?) about his creation. I mean, Gregor was already freakishly strong when he was alive. I wonder how strong Gregorstein is?! Also, Robert Strong doesn't move slowly/woodenly like a zombie. If you remember, toward the end of Cercei's walk of shame, he gathered her up in his arms like a baby, surprisingly gently, and took her inside. I do think, however, that Qyburn somehow controls Robert Strong and that will ultimately be how he is defeated. I think as Qyburn goes so goes his creation.

You'r right, I just looked it up. And I totally forgot about Cersei being carried by the "creation," at the end of her walk.

I agree about Qyburn being in control of the creation, because it wouldn't make sense for this vicious beast of a man to all of a sudden be gentle and carry Cersei back into the Red Keep like a baby. And if it (Strong) did have any of Gregor's memories or feelings,  I'm sure the memory of his death would not allow him to work for the Lannisters, certainly not defend Cersei's life. His death was described as extremely painful and drawn out. He had to know(if he had any moments of lucidity) he was being kept alive for the sole purpose of advancing the Lannister cause. And I can't image he'd be happy about it.

Now I'm wondering just what Qyburn uses to control the beast. Because if Strong has no memory of his previous life, then did he also lose his fighting skills?   It should be interesting to find out more about the process...

Also, I agree with a few previous posters, the Faith would be fools to allow one of there men to fight against Strong. I'm sure they know what's up, or at least have some idea. So if they don't allow her trial by combat, then what will happen?

Edited by Lpearce7, 25 May 2012 - 06:22 PM.

[Ramez012]

lysmonger, on 25 May 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

too bad there won't be an actual trial. The faith would be morons to actually put anyone against robert strong. And it just happens that Kevin Lannister is dead which will save cersei from being tried. THe faith know they don't want to lose a guy fighting unGregor but using the "there is a reason why cersei is being insane with all of her relatives" and "whats best for Tommen" will get them from actually trying cersei. Here is something more interesting though, how Cersei is going to fuck the faith up with Robert Strong.

Didn't she mention it would be Lancel who she would fight?
I think Cercei would cream her pants if Lancel died. The irony would be too much for her.

[All For Joffrey]

Lpearce7, on 24 May 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

I was gonna start a thread asking this question, but it seems like everyone agrees it has to be Gregor's body w/ either no head, or another person's head attached, or possibly even his own head(in which case the one the Martell's received was not Gregor's.) But then the question is, how well will he perform? I know Qyburn says "An undefeated champion," but who is undefeated, Gregor or the Qyburnstein creation? Because I was thinking about the dead that came back to life in at the Wall. They were all threatening yes, but they were really like zomies in that they moved slow and were pretty much dead to the world. But Cersei seems pretty confident, although she has no other hope besides the creation

In single combat, Gregor wasn't very fast even when he was alive. His main advantage was he was freakishly strong, so he could wear heavy, thick plate armor all over. I would imagine it would be the same for Gregorstein (i like that name BTW) The Red Viper's strategy for defeating him was to get in around the joints of the armor and make him bleed from a lot of small wounds. On something that's not technically alive, that advantage goes away. So for the purpose of being Cercei's champion in singe combat, he's pretty much good to go.

[TheDarkOne]

Ramez012, on 25 May 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

Didn't she mention it would be Lancel who she would fight?
I think Cercei would cream her pants if Lancel died. The irony would be too much for her.

I have a feeling the Faith might be able to find a Monk to fight Gregorstein. Perhaps they have a noivce one who is sick of digging graves and healed.

[baxter]

Sandor the Saint vs GREGORSTEIN!

[romantic]

I'm sorry but if he doesn't have a head/brain how could he know how to fight? If he was being controlled by someone then the controller would surely have to know how to fight, and fight well, or does Rober Strong just stand while his opponent wacks the bejesus out of him and then, when the opponent's exhausted, Robert falls on him and squashes him flat. ???

[Dornish Hen]

I was always under the impression that the skull was the fat septon's or the dwarf's.

Cercei and Qyburn are discussing the fate of the "skull situation" and Cercei remarks right then that "He was only a High Septon."  Why would Cercei have the skull cleaned if the skull wasn't Gregor's?

As to Bran's dream, the darkness could be that UnGregor was created using the dark arts.  I never thought of Bran's dream as literal.

[BigBucket]

Pretty much word for word what I was going to write Dornish Hen. I always assumed the skull was the septons tbh. It was only when I started reading these forums that I even thought about the possibility it wasn't.

I also think 'darkness' and 'thick black blood' stand for evil and pain/torture. Its more an indicator of Robert Strong's nature and "birth" than a definite he has no head.

Edited by BigBucket, 27 May 2012 - 11:06 AM.

[WayOutWest]

Thoros of Myr would be the ideal man to face him if you look at the facts.  1)  Dondarrion and Thoros were sent out to kill him in book 1 and failed. 2) he is a great swordsman as proved when he won the melee and also due to the fact that there is no evidence of him ever being killed whilst Dondarrion drops down like the proverbial Italian footballer all of the time. 3) he creates undead himself; Qyburn has simply done a twisted version of what Thoros has been doing - who better to undo it?

This suggestion is a bit out there, but he seems like a fairly good candidate and his band of merry men and miserable dead chick are seldom seen although they are interesting.  GRRM is obviously saving them for something.