409 replies to this topic

[ThinkerX]

Again - WHY bail out those banks that were stupid enough to invest in a place like Greece to begin with?  They behaved with monumental stupidity, therefor they should pay a monumental price.

WHY tie their *PRIVATE* debt in with *PUBLIC* debt?

[Galactus]

ThinkerX, on 28 May 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

Again - WHY bail out those banks that were stupid enough to invest in a place like Greece to begin with?  They behaved with monumental stupidity, therefor they should pay a monumental price.

WHY tie their *PRIVATE* debt in with *PUBLIC* debt?

Because in addition they also hold a bunch of ohter stuff (pension plans, or just private citizen's stuff, loans to and from various corporations, etc.)

If the banks default that means all of those things (that are spread out all over the economy) goes poof. (or at least becomes functionally innaccessible until the  bancruptcy is sorted out) this is likely to have knock-on effects. (IE: it takes out other economic actors who in turn might take out further ones)

Banks are incredibly tightly integrated into the economy (indeed, in some sense they're the roller-skating rink on which the economy rolls) picking one apart is really, really troublesome.

Now, what I'd do would be something like the swedish 90's crisis plan, which basically involved baling the banks out on condition that if they couldn't meet their payments they'd be nationalized and the useful parts sold off piecemal. But given that this is a multinatonal problem it's probably problematic from a purely administrative standpoint to do so.

[ThinkerX]

Quote

Because in addition they also hold a bunch of ohter stuff (pension plans, or just private citizen's stuff, loans to and from various corporations, etc.)

If the banks default that means all of those things (that are spread out all over the economy) goes poof. (or at least becomes functionally innaccessible until the bancruptcy is sorted out) this is likely to have knock-on effects. (IE: it takes out other economic actors who in turn might take out further ones)

Then go with a controlled shutdown instead of bankrupency.

To continue to support such stupidity is stupidity in and of itself.

[Galactus]

ThinkerX, on 28 May 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

[b]

Then go with a controlled shutdown instead of bankrupency.

To continue to support such stupidity is stupidity in and of itself.

There's no really good way to do so.

There are ways to minimize these kinds of risks (various kinds of regulations on how and why banks are allowed to invest) but that's a long-term issue: The question is how you keep things running now.

Because shutting down the banks would essentially mean good sections of the economy (and we don't know which ones, and to which extent) will stop working entiely. And that's terrible.

[ThinkerX]

Quote

Because shutting down the banks would essentially mean good sections of the economy (and we don't know which ones, and to which extent) will stop working entiely. And that's terrible.

And if you don't start shutting down banks, then the consequences are even worse, because they *WILL* blow up anyways, and when that happens, they'll take entire countries with them.  As I see it, no bailout, stimulus, or austerity package can prevent that from happening

[snake]

A new poll by the pew research centre.

Interesting to note that of the EU countries surveyed all pick Germany as the hardest working with the exception of Greece, which picks itself as the hardest working.  All countries surveyed pick Germany as the least corrupt.

Some interesting results.

Edited by snake, 29 May 2012 - 10:43 AM.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

snake, on 29 May 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

Some interesting results.

No kidding.  Thanks for posting that -- it's definitely worth a read.  Germans having the highest percentage of people thinking they've benefitted from the EU -- fancy that.

To Greece's credit, they also had the highest percentage of people -- 42% -- blame the current economic problems on "ourselves".  It seems there's very much a split in that country politically.

[dalThor]

The latest 5 polls are all showing New Democracy over SYRIZA but it's still entirely too close to call.  Their lead in the polls ranges from 0.05% to 4.7%.  I hope the voters here realize just how unrealistic Tsipras' promises really are.

[Eloisa]

snake, on 29 May 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

Interesting to note that of the EU countries surveyed all pick Germany as the hardest working with the exception of Greece, which picks itself as the hardest working.

Other surveys over the past year have indicated that Germany has the highest productivity per worker hour, whereas Greek workers work the longest average working week.  So, oddly, both feelings have something of a fact behind them.

[Järv]

"Handelsblatt" reports that the German Euro-Haters are gathering around the "independetn voters" a special party that has a lot of members but restricted itself to local elections until recently. Now they have started to participate in elections on state-level, had some success there and could possibly participate in the next Bundestag elections. This is interesting because currently the German Euro-haters from the right wing have no real plattform, since all established parties with the exception of the left-wing-radicals "THE LEFT" are pro-Euro.
These guys appear to have some supporters/possible candidates who possess a certain degree of popularity among middle-class voters here: Hubert Aiwanger, Hans-Olaf Henkel,  Hans.Werner Sinn, Ekkart Cordes, Burkhart Hirsch, Thilo Bode etc.
Pollsters say that up to 20% of voters could possibly sympathize with this a new party.


http://www.handelsbl...ff/6684206.html
(avaiable only in German, sorry)

Edited by Järv, 29 May 2012 - 05:59 PM.