418 replies to this topic

[STANN1SBARATHEON]

Of all the kings fighting for control of Westeros, I stand behind Stannis Baratheon, I firmly believe throne is righty his and his claim is the best, Dany may be the mother of dragons and the chosen one the prophecy speak of send to mankind to fight the others, but Stannis is the rightful king of Westeros.

here's why,


The Targaryens came to Westeros and conquered the kingdoms and turned it into one big realm.  Ok.  But after three hundred plus years of incest to keep bloodlines pure, and horrible kings like Maegor the Cruel, Baelor the Befuddled, Aegon the Unworthy, and of course the Mad King, the people of Westeros finally had enough.  And when the dragon prince kidnapped Lyanna and father and son Stark were murdered before the Iron Throne, that was the tipping point.  

The people rebelled and went to war against the throne, they overthrew the Mad King, and they put a new king on the Iron Throne.  That hilarious party drinking carouser Robert Baratheon.  He may not have been a great king, but there was peace under him and Jon Arryn, even Ned Stark said the realm had 17 years, 17 good years under them.

To make a long point short, the people rebelled, they made Robert their new king, he dies, his "children" are really Jaime's bastards, so the throne belongs to Stannis.  In my mind Dany has no claim.  Dragons yes, but no claim to the throne.   She may be chosen to fight the others yes, but by the rights of Westeros the throne isn't hers.  

i know it's all a matter of perspective, that she feels the throne does belong to her because it was stolen from her family, but as the readers we know the truth, the people had enough of the Targaryens and put an end to their rule.  maybe i'm just playing favorites because i think Stannis Baratheon is a badass and one of the best characters, but i thought i would share my thoughts on this matter on my first ever thread post.  any thoughts, anyone?

[Stannis' sense of humour]

Hello Stannis, were you looking for me?

[The Dornishman's Wife]

I definitely agree with you in that the Targ dynasty doesn't have any inherent right to supply the monarch of Westeros anymore (if they ever did). If Dany wants to claim such a right, she will have to earn it.

But she can't just say "We were kings first!", because there's quite a lot of families in Westeros who have an even older claim of kingship. Nor can she say "But I have dragons", at least not if she wants to talk about her right and not just about her power.

[Fire and Blood!]

I am getting tired of repeating this but I will do it once more, Stannis is anyting but the rightful king(from a moral piont of view)!He is the heir of Robert who himself is a usurper and not a rightful king.The rebellion was not started by the common people but by a group of lords, in fact I'm willing to argue that the common people were better under the Targaryen regime and there are many people in Westeros still loyal to the Targaryens.Daenerys(or Aegon) would be a much more supported ruler than Stannis who would be a worse king than Robert.

[Stannis' sense of humour]

Westeros is full of sleaze and duplicity, Stannis is just the man needed to clean the place up.

Edited by Stannis' sense of humour, 06 May 2012 - 03:12 PM.

[I'll pay the iron price]

Stannis, on 06 May 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

Westeros is full of sleaze and duplicity, Stannis is just the man needed to clean the place up.

  Stannis is man of law and order, when the war ends and the dust settles, I'd want Stannis as King

[bbqq]

I'd just like to clarify, when you say 'the people', you don't actually mean all the people in Westeros. Houses Baratheon, Stark, Arryn, Tully (and later Lannister) rebelled against the Targaryens, whilst not all of the Tully/Arryn bannermen joined their cause. The rest of the realm appears to have stayed loyal (in the case of the Martells and Tyrells for great houses, and all their bannermen), or stayed neutral (the Greyjoys and the Freys, for example).

I agree with you that the Targs have no real claim to the throne anymore, though.


Another interesting thing I found was this;  'After all the rebels were united, it was decided they would stand behind Robert, whose grandmother had been the daughter of King Aegon V Targaryen, giving him the best claim to the throne outside of Aerys, his children and grandchildren.' Can anyone verify whether this is true? There weren't any citations, and I always assumed that the Baratheons had claimed the throne due to right of conquest, not blood.

[LuisDantas]

Stannis has no legal right to the throne, because he lacks proof for his case.

Nor has he even a semblance of moral right, either.  Not since he killed Renly.

Last but not least, he is not fit to rule either.  His claim is quite self-centered and self-interested; he wastes his resources routinely out of plain hubris; and he is a hypocrite to boot.

People often seem to think of Randyll Tarly when they speak of Stannis Baratheon.  Those are two very different men, however, although it is my understanding that Stannis used to resemble Tarly back in the day.

Stannis basically swears that he is Randyll Tarly's bitter brother.  But that he in fact more like Theon Greyjoy's richer, more spoiled brother.

[STANN1SBARATHEON]

I totally understand where people are coming from when they split hairs and say it was the high lords and not the common people who rebelled against the targaryens, but for anyone to say that Stannis would be a worse king than Robert is totally crazy, Stannis wanted to send all the guilty people to the wall like Ned did after the rebellion, and he even mentions once that once he gets on the throne he would "scour it clean like Robert should have done",  Robert was a bad king because he had the chance to do good but he was too busy doing exactly what he wanted to do instead (hunting whores and f***ing boars, or is it the other way around?) But Stannis would totally be a better king,

but yes medieval feudalism did require of robert that he have some legitimate claim to the throne besides his warhammer (which is what he liked to boast), so he said his claim came from his grandmother with targaryen blood, remember in book one when robert says to Ned that it was him who should have bee king, but Ned said, "you had the better claim."   and he did.  and the throne definitely belongs to Stannis.

[Sphinx The Riddle]

"kidnapped" Lyanna

[Apple Martini]

Fire and Blood!, on 06 May 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

I am getting tired of repeating this but I will do it once more, Stannis is anyting but the rightful king(from a moral piont of view)!He is the heir of Robert who himself is a usurper and not a rightful king.The rebellion was not started by the common people but by a group of lords, in fact I'm willing to argue that the common people were better under the Targaryen regime and there are many people in Westeros still loyal to the Targaryens.Daenerys(or Aegon) would be a much more supported ruler than Stannis who would be a worse king than Robert.

I'd argue that by denying Rickard and Brandon a fair trial and seeking to punish Ned and Robert through no fault of their own other than association, Aerys showed that he himself was in no way fit to be a king, and the Stark, Baratheon, Arryn and Tully alliance did the world a favor by getting rid of him. The man was prepared to incinerate 500,000 people out of spite. Common people, I dare call them.

I don't know how you can claim that Stannis would in any way resemble Robert as a king, when Stannis is repeatedly shown to despise much of what Robert did and how he ruled.

Edited by Apple Martini, 06 May 2012 - 03:54 PM.

[LuisDantas]

STANN1SBARATHEON, on 06 May 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

I totally understand where people are coming from when they split hairs and say it was the high lords and not the common people who rebelled against the targaryens, but for anyone to say that Stannis would be a worse king than Robert is totally crazy, Stannis wanted to send all the guilty people to the wall like Ned did after the rebellion, and he even mentions once that once he gets on the throne he would "scour it clean like Robert should have done",  Robert was a bad king because he had the chance to do good but he was too busy doing exactly what he wanted to do instead (hunting whores and f***ing boars, or is it the other way around?) But Stannis would totally be a better king,

We have no evidence for that.  On the contrary, he seems to make a point of driving his good counselors away and to surround himself with glorified thugs and yes-men.  He even says so in ASOS.

Quote

but yes medieval feudalism did require of robert that he have some legitimate claim to the throne besides his warhammer (which is what he liked to boast), so he said his claim came from his grandmother with targaryen blood, remember in book one when robert says to Ned that it was him who should have bee king, but Ned said, "you had the better claim."   and he did.  and the throne definitely belongs to Stannis.

You're confusing a legitimate claim to a throne (something that is essentially fictional - why on Westeros would anyone have such a right?) with fulfilling the letter of the succession laws.

Stannis would have the lawful claim if he had proof.  Since he does not, the lawful claim is not his.  Not that it matters much except for the Lannisters, mind you.

[Drunken Dornishman]

Stannis, on 06 May 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

Westeros is full of sleaze and duplicity, Stannis is just the man needed to clean the place up.

I, on 06 May 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

  Stannis is man of law and order, when the war ends and the dust settles, I'd want Stannis as King

Seeing as his pardon for Davos excluded a few fingers there'll probably be need for quite the chopping board if Stannis manages to claim the throne.

[Sphinx The Riddle]

and the iron thrones was constructed by Aegon.. as long as a man/woman wants to sit on a targ throne then it goes to the rightful targ which is Aegon VI and his queen Dany.. Stannis is the heir to Robert yes but not the rightful heir to the iron throne

[STANN1SBARATHEON]

Like Stannis is always saying about Davos, i say the same thing about that last member post, the She-Wolf speaks it true, the high lords did Westeros a favor by rebelling against the Mad King

[Stannis' sense of humour]

Drunken Dornishman, on 06 May 2012 - 03:55 PM, said:

Seeing as his pardon for Davos excluded a few fingers there'll probably be need for quite the chopping board if Stannis manages to claim the throne.

Price worth paying considering the state the realm is at the moment.

[Apple Martini]

Sphinx The Riddle, on 06 May 2012 - 03:55 PM, said:

and the iron thrones was constructed by Aegon.. as long as a man/woman wants to sit on a targ throne then it goes to the rightful targ which is Aegon VI and his queen Dany.. Stannis is the heir to Robert yes but not the rightful heir to the iron throne

The Iron Throne belongs to whoever can win it and hold it.

I also think it's rich that people claim that Robert and Stannis have no moral leg to stand on, while backing up the claim of a totally amoral madman who murdered several people in very brutal ways and would've murdered thousands more if he hadn't been stopped. What "moral authority" did Aerys II have, pray tell, that what he did was justified and should not have been punished?

ETA: Also, you should know, Young Griff is a fraud and is not Aegon. Oops?

Edited by Apple Martini, 06 May 2012 - 03:59 PM.

[Drunken Dornishman]

Stannis, on 06 May 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

Price worth paying considering the state the realm is at the moment.

Good luck rebuilding the realm with a bunch of cripples. But I suppose that way Stannis might be able to put down the inevitable rebellions that'll follow in the wake of his conquest.

Edited by Drunken Dornishman, 06 May 2012 - 04:01 PM.

[I'll pay the iron price]

Stannis is the rightful King.
Wether or not Robert Baratheon deserved the throne is a moot point.
Robert died without a legit heir, therefore Stannis is next in line.

Stannis also lended help to the nightswatch, all right so perhaps he had some selfish reasons but none of the others bothered to help the black brothers!

[STANN1SBARATHEON]

this is true, letters were sent to each of the kings fighting for control of Westeros from Castle Black at the Wall, pleading for help against the wildlings, and the only one who came was Stannis, be it as Davos's urging yes, but it was Stannis who showed up at the Wall.