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Stannis is the One True King


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#21 Ser Giant

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 05:17 PM

My first impressions of Stannis was that he was kinda a scuzzball, but by the end of aDwD and the bonus chapter I found myself loving the guy. Justice-wise, he's the closest thing to a King Eddard we're ever going to get. Not the King Ned we need or deserve, but the King Ned we are stuck with, so to speak.

#22 Stallion That Mounts Texas

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 05:28 PM

I am getting tired of repeating this but I will do it once more, Stannis is anyting but the rightful king(from a moral piont of view)!He is the heir of Robert who himself is a usurper and not a rightful king.The rebellion was not started by the common people but by a group of lords, in fact I'm willing to argue that the common people were better under the Targaryen regime and there are many people in Westeros still loyal to the Targaryens.Daenerys(or Aegon) would be a much more supported ruler than Stannis who would be a worse king than Robert.


I agree with everything that you said and more. If the iron throne belongs to anyone, it belongs to a Targaryen. Of all the possibilities that could have been chosen for king after the rebellion, Robert was the absolute worst. Aerys was indeed mad but he at least knew how to run a government. Robert inherited a treasury overflowing with gold and took massive amounts of gold and land from Targ loyalists. In 15 years time he bankrupted the realm and filled the government with schemers and backstabbers.

Stannis was passed over and slighted by Robert at every turn. He is little loved by the small folk and highborn alike. He has no charisma, he is too rigid to bend, and will not return to his marriage bed to produce a son. His only heir is likely to die from greyscale and there are no more Baratheons left. What would be the point of crowning Stannis?

Stannis would make a perfect hand if he ever bent the knee but no more.

#23 Stallion That Mounts Texas

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 05:34 PM

Stannis is the rightful King.
Wether or not Robert Baratheon deserved the throne is a moot point.
Robert died without a legit heir, therefore Stannis is next in line.

Stannis also lended help to the nightswatch, all right so perhaps he had some selfish reasons but none of the others bothered to help the black brothers!


Stannis cannot be the legit king b/c Robert was not the legit King. The point is not moot b/c we have a devastating war going on that has revolved around this very point. Had Rhaegar succeeded Aerys as intended, all would have been well.

#24 bbqq

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 05:45 PM

Stannis cannot be the legit king b/c Robert was not the legit King.


I fail to see why the Targaryen's claim is better than the Baratheon's, just because they had a conquest first.

Edited by bbqq, 06 May 2012 - 05:45 PM.


#25 Stallion That Mounts Texas

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 06:25 PM

I fail to see why the Targaryen's claim is better than the Baratheon's, just because they had a conquest first.


It was the Targaryens who solidified the realm and crafted the iron throne. Over the course of 300 years their line has been unbroken. Even with the death of Aerys and Rhaegar, there are Targaryens left in the world to take the iron throne. If someone steals your car, do they have a better claim to it? The Baratheons owe their very existence to House Targaryen. It was Aegon I who raised Orys far beyond his station. Like the Tyrells and Tullys, the Baratheons should have been the most loyal of bannerman.

The Baratheons are Kings by theft and nothing more. I hope Jon/Dany/Aegon destroys them Root and Stem!!!!

#26 dreamcatcher

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 06:35 PM

His shadow baby friggin killed his brother in the battle for the throne, he deserves nothing!

#27 Fire and Blood!

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 07:14 PM

The Iron Throne belongs to whoever can win it and hold it.

I also think it's rich that people claim that Robert and Stannis have no moral leg to stand on, while backing up the claim of a totally amoral madman who murdered several people in very brutal ways and would've murdered thousands more if he hadn't been stopped. What "moral authority" did Aerys II have, pray tell, that what he did was justified and should not have been punished?

ETA: Also, you should know, Young Griff is a fraud and is not Aegon. Oops?


Insane or no Aerys was the king and a rightful one ulike Robert.Yes he was not a good man but that doesn't make him less of a king just as being a good man doesn't give you the right to be king.In the end he was no longer fit to rule and removing him from power was right but not in the maner that it was done.

As for Aegon you may belive him to be a fake but until there is some proof to it that's just that - your belief and he is Aegon of the house Targaryen sixth of his name titles titles...

#28 bbqq

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 07:29 PM

It was the Targaryens who solidified the realm and crafted the iron throne. Over the course of 300 years their line has been unbroken.


Yes, but by 'solidifed the realm' you mean conquered five of the seven kingdoms, which doesn't really give them any more right than Robert's claim to the throne - apart from the fact it was 300 years ago, which I personally don't think affects the matter.

Even with the death of Aerys and Rhaegar, there are Targaryens left in the world to take the iron throne.


Interestingly enough (as events stand at the end of ADwD), apart from Dany and Aegon (maybe) the next in the line of succession is Stannis Baratheon, if the wiki is to be believed.

If someone steals your car, do they have a better claim to it? The Baratheons owe their very existence to House Targaryen.


No, but if you steal 4 cars off someone, then threaten 3 more people into giving you their cars, and someone comes along 300 years later and steals those cars off you, do you have a better claim than them?..

Edited by bbqq, 06 May 2012 - 07:32 PM.


#29 Sphinx The Riddle

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 09:13 PM

ETA: Also, you should know, Young Griff is a fraud and is not Aegon. Oops?


edit because this website is slow as shit.. comment below

Edited by Sphinx The Riddle, 06 May 2012 - 09:15 PM.


#30 Sphinx The Riddle

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 09:14 PM

ETA: Also, you should know, Young Griff is a fraud and is not Aegon. Oops?


speculation and rumor.. oops?? and even if so doesnt take away the fact that a targ whomever that is is the true heir

#31 Apple Martini

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 12:59 AM

Insane or no Aerys was the king and a rightful one ulike Robert.Yes he was not a good man but that doesn't make him less of a king just as being a good man doesn't give you the right to be king.In the end he was no longer fit to rule and removing him from power was right but not in the maner that it was done.


So basically you're saying that no matter how cruel, evil and insane a king is, he's still the king and because of that, people should have to put up with him no matter what. Right? I'm sorry but that's kind of warped. Don't know how much western civilization you've ever had, but there's this idea that government is only worthy so long as it best serves the interests of its people. When it stops doing that, that government should be dismantled. Near as I can tell, Aerys' reign ceased to be operating in the interests of justice and taking his dynasty out — which brought fuck all to Westeros other than conflict and greed — was a gift to humanity.

As for Aegon you may belive him to be a fake but until there is some proof to it that's just that - your belief and he is Aegon of the house Targaryen sixth of his name titles titles...


There are plenty of threads on this very forum discussing in great detail why Aegon's a fraud, if you bother to take five minutes to read them.

Edited by Apple Martini, 07 May 2012 - 12:59 AM.


#32 Silent_Hero

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 04:26 AM

So basically you're saying that no matter how cruel, evil and insane a king is, he's still the king and because of that, people should have to put up with him no matter what. Right? I'm sorry but that's kind of warped. Don't know how much western civilization you've ever had, but there's this idea that government is only worthy so long as it best serves the interests of its people. When it stops doing that, that government should be dismantled. Near as I can tell, Aerys' reign ceased to be operating in the interests of justice and taking his dynasty out which brought fuck all to Westeros other than conflict and greed was a gift to humanity.


The world of Westeros follows the laws of monarchy, demorcracy, while a good idea is very alien to the culture of westeros, Aerys was king and while very mad and crazy he was still king, his dynasty reign ended when he threatened the lives of two lords, one of whom was his relative, if Robert did not have a claim Aerys would still hold the throne.

#33 Dreadnaught

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 05:58 AM

Near as I can tell, Aerys' reign ceased to be operating in the interests of justice and taking his dynasty out — which brought fuck all to Westeros other than conflict and greed — was a gift to humanity.

I think you miss the point. You are talking about modern ideals, but this is a feudal system. No matter who is king there will always be conflict and greed. Even in so called times of peace, people like Roose Bolton could rape the wife of another man without fear of reprisals, just because he was a lord. I'm sure there would a lot of this type of injustice being imposed on the common people by a lot of the lords. Such is the price of feudal rule.

IMO I say Daenerys Targaryen has the best claim and I think the people would prosper under her rule. If she is left barren, then that would be the end of the Targaryen family line. In which case, I suspect she would introduce some kind of democratic rule.

BTW, I think Stannis will die in TWoW, but I didn't like him as king anyway.

#34 Fire and Blood!

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 06:46 AM

So basically you're saying that no matter how cruel, evil and insane a king is, he's still the king and because of that, people should have to put up with him no matter what. Right? I'm sorry but that's kind of warped. Don't know how much western civilization you've ever had, but there's this idea that government is only worthy so long as it best serves the interests of its people. When it stops doing that, that government should be dismantled. Near as I can tell, Aerys' reign ceased to be operating in the interests of justice and taking his dynasty out — which brought fuck all to Westeros other than conflict and greed — was a gift to humanity.



There are plenty of threads on this very forum discussing in great detail why Aegon's a fraud, if you bother to take five minutes to read them.


If by western civilization you mean democracy, well democracy in my country is 4 years older than myself and I am young so you get the idea.Still I have seen enough of it to know how uneffective it is, yes it removed an oppressive regime but it also brought anarchy.I am a monarchist so it is natural that I view king's authority differently than you.I am not going to argue about politics on this forum I am just explaining why I think the way I do.

As for Aerys he was no better or worse for the common people than anyone after him(most kings are that way).

I have read most of said threads and am not at all convinced.There is no real proof about him being fake and until there is such(if there will be at all) I will belive Aegon to be real.

#35 Fancy Peasant

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 12:33 PM

I really like Stannis, but his leadership style does seem a bit harsh. Maybe he'd soften up in peace time, but I doubt it. We've seen how cruel kings have ended up earlier, and while Stannis isn't crazy cruel he's still frightening and abrasive.

#36 Mulled Wino

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 01:50 PM

Stannis has a better claim than anyone in Westeros.

not so sure if he has a better claim than a Targ though.

#37 Buried Treasure

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 01:57 PM

When we talk about Aegon winning the kingdom by conquest we are glossing over the fact he didn't become a king by winning battles but by forcing people to swear fealty to him at sword- (or dragon-) point after winning the battles. It's the oaths that were sworn to him that gave him the right to rule, although Jaime's moral question of whether an oath sworn at swordpoint is valid would have applied. Aegon didn't have a particular right to fight his war in the first place but he wasn't in the wrong either - because he owed no fealty to any of the previous rulers. If the guy with the dragons had been Aegon Tyrell he would have been a traitor the instant he rose in rebellion against the Gardener kings, unless there was a specific reason for him to no longer owe loyalty to the Gardeners.

That's were I see the justification for Robert's rebellion, because kings in Westeros rule within a feudal system the obligations go both ways and Aerys unlawful actions freed Robert, Ned and Jon from their fealty to him. So Robert has a strong arguement for saying he was not a traitor when he rose against Aerys (except Targaryen loyalists will not see it that way, and there is no 100% correct answer). Still, after Robert won his victory everybody in the kingdom swore fealty to him - so they are going to be traitors if they rise in rebellion against him and his heirs.

#38 Red Lion

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 02:03 PM

I think Stannis would make the best king, although I'd be surprised if he ends up with the Iron Throne.

#39 Binadas Sengar

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 03:22 PM

Targ's have no claim unless all Baratheon heirs are dead or ...well they conquer Westeros or have the means to press their claim.

Stannis did ill with Renly, no doubt about it but....as much as I love Renly (one of the best potential Kings the books have shown us) he flubbed big time by trying to leapfrog his brother. Renly knew who his brother was and what it would come to but still chose the path he did.

I figure Stannis is the best option for King left but I wonder how he reconciles his "the good does not wash away the bad" with slaying Renly. I can't remember if he said exactly that in the books but it seems to be his outlook considering Davos. Well if nothing else I hope Stannis helps to bring the wolves back!

#40 bbqq

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 03:38 PM

Historical discourse and so on excluded, whoever wishes to hold the iron throne in the modern setting of Westeros is only going to be able to win it by a combination of two ways - by pure military means, and by alliances formed by marriage pacts. That's why I very much doubt that the Targs will be able to come back into power (in the long run, say the next 50 years, slightly less clear for the run of the series), because there is only Dany and the queriable Aegon, whilst most noble houses vying for power have -at least- a few extras they can afford to marry off.

Except, of course, Stannis.

Edited by bbqq, 07 May 2012 - 03:39 PM.