276 replies to this topic

[Thunderfist]

jlk7e, on 08 May 2012 - 05:45 PM, said:

The Freys don't care if Robb has sex with some nurse.  An infatuation is meaningless as long as Robb is willing to follow through on his oath to the Freys.

I agree with you that the Freys probably wouldn´t mind if Robb had sex with some random lowborn girl to blow off some steam or whatever. However I do believe that one or two eyebrows would be raised about the fact that Robb is obviously falling in love with this girl and that he´s showing this in public in front of everyone. The Freys might not have reason to believe that he will end up marrying this girl but I am certain that they would see it as worrying and as an insult.

[Kvothe the Arcane]

Great episode, definitely one of the best of this series so far.

Loved the Theon, Qhorin and Riot scenes particularly, the Ser Rodrik scene was an excellent change, helped flesh out Theon's situation in Winterfell. However, I am finding the Daenerys storyline just as dull as I did when I first read CoK, the fleshing out of it they are doing is taking away from the much more engaging Westeros based action. Delighted Ramsay Snow/Bolton is making it into this season though, the Reeds will be missed in the course of the season though, if Osha replaces them in Bran's storyline it just will not make sense on screen, with all her characterisation from the first series it would just look insane to take the character along with Bran.

All in all though probably my favourite episodes or both series, the geographical and character switches really worked brilliantly in this one.

[packersfan]

Good point about the Freys and Robb...this nurse just makes the story less believable.  What would the Frey's care if he fools around with a foreign nurse?  However, look in the books, their issue is that he fools around with Jeyne Westerling and then feels compelled to marry her as the honorable thing to do and the fact that he falls for her.  The issue is the marriage!  One of my friends thinks they put this nurse in, so they could introduce this romance in the second season rather than the third (third book is when it all happens).  Really?  Why?  We don't have enough other things to keep us appetized!  We really need an even DUMBER romance???  This is going to make Robb look even stupider than he was in the books when he broke his oath with the Freys!

As for Osha, Bran, Rickon, and Hodor and the lack of Reeds, I think this is going to problematic.  My friend thinks that they must run into the Reeds later (next season...HBO didn't want to hire more child actors maybe this season).  Since in the books Osha and Rickon go one way and the Reeds, Bran and Hodor go north, how will that work without the Reeds?  Also, remember that eventually Davos is dispatched by Manderly of White Harbor to find Rickon.  Hopefully, the writers have only rearranged events a little and not completely bungled up these seemingly little things, which could have far greater impact.

As for Jon and Ygritte: I saw someone saying that it made no sense that Halfhand and the other rangers would leave Jon to execute her, but this IS how it happened in the book.  However, HBO changed it by having her then ESCaPe and Jon chasing.  In the book, he lets her go.  They don't meet up again or start any relationship until he joins up with Mance Rayder.  Are they just extending the time they spend together before he lets her go?  If so, how are they going to explain that time to the other rangers. When he let her go in the book, it was fast.  Jon was able to say he finished her off (or did he say she got away?)...either way, there was no suspicious long time where Jon was separated from the group.  Seems the writers are anxious and impatient to tell parts of the story they are really excited about instead of taking their time and letting the story get there.

I really think the show is a million times easier to watch when you haven't read the books.  It is nice to know what will happen and who everyone is, but at the same time it is a major letdown when you know what happens next or SHOULD happen next and then the HBO writers produce a major twist that completely alters that story.  Oh well, maybe I should just go back to nitpicking about movies and shows based on history that fabricate and completely change historical occurences for entertainment purposes like Benjamin Rush in the John Adams miniseries being alive AFTER Abigail Adams died, despite him dying in the real world BEFORE her.  Oh HBO, sheesh.

Edited by packersfan, 10 May 2012 - 10:07 PM.

[rmholt]

Rob the God, on 08 May 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

are you kidding me?
where did the budget go?????? look at the damn screen. this show has the highest production value i've ever seen on Television

if you have no idea what you are talking about just ........ you know what i mean

The budget went to CGI and the upcoming Battle of the Blackwater AFAIK

[rmholt]

Serc, on 07 May 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

Best episode of Season 2. Worth a 10.

Everything was done fantastically. It had action and drama and a sense of flow that the other episodes haven't matched. The book changes are done well; Qarth might just end up not being one uninteresting bore with her dragon's stolen (as well, I always wondered why they didn't take them in the books). Tywin's actor dominates the screen. He's easily the best actor in the entire cast.

Arya stealing the letter... Lolwat? Why not just read the damn thing and leave it there. When the letter goes missing, it's not like Tywin isn't going to immediately know who stole it. And, of course, Amory had it on him when he died in front of Tywin. Nice save by Jaqen though.

I cannot comprehend the people expecting this to be like the books or claiming that it 'betrays' GRRM's vision. Newsflash: GRRM has done things extremely poorly. He's had bad scenes, bad characters, and bad, nonsensical plot. This is a second runthrough and I highly suspect they're polishing and fixing things he's had issues with. You can't show half of what the books do purely because they're revealed through monologue or else too subtle for the screen. This necessitates changes and a change from his 'vision'. Due to both limited time and the medium, the show should be more entertaining and action packed than the books while still retaining as much of the intriguing plot as possible... and that's what they're doing. It shouldn't try to be as in depth or 'deep' because it won't be able to manage it.

I will bet money to the effect that Brienne will not be wandering the Riverlands in the show. That was, while... important... in the books, boring for the show.

That said, yes, this show had some issues. Something that stood out for me was the guy's arm getting torn out during the riot. The rest of the riot was done marvelously, but I just had to shake my head at that part. Jon missing with his strike just strikes me as him being incompetent. As mentioned, the letter and Arya. However, none of these flaws were big enough to merit more than a flash of irritation. The episode was great.

Jon didnt miss by accident MHO.  The chase seemed weird - I guess they were in a hurry to get him to Mance.  He is now totally lost if i understand correctly.

I do have one complaint about Ygritte.  She is too beautiful and too well put together and too openly assertive in the sexual seduction attempts this early.  Hair and makeup FAIL.

I would rather have seen the stabbing of Preston Greenfield turning him and his armor/cloak red or the pulping of Santagar's head, but ripping of limbs will do.

The stealing of the dragons may save the Dany plotline.  Xaro and the head of the Thirteen are completely stealing the scenes.  I read she isnt a very experienced actor so give her a little break.

I sort of liked the Jaqen/Lorch thing bc Jaqen is allowing himself to be bossed by Arya.  This seems entirely in character for both.

[Michaelj]

rmholt, on 11 May 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

Jon didnt miss by accident MHO.  The chase seemed weird - I guess they were in a hurry to get him to Mance.  He is now totally lost if i understand correctly.

I do have one complaint about Ygritte.  She is too beautiful and too well put together and too openly assertive in the sexual seduction attempts this early.  Hair and makeup FAIL.

I would rather have seen the stabbing of Preston Greenfield turning him and his armor/cloak red or the pulping of Santagar's head, but ripping of limbs will do.

The stealing of the dragons may save the Dany plotline.  Xaro and the head of the Thirteen are completely stealing the scenes.  I read she isnt a very experienced actor so give her a little break.

I sort of liked the Jaqen/Lorch thing bc Jaqen is allowing himself to be bossed by Arya.  This seems entirely in character for both.

Hes not off to Mance, its been confirmed he'll find the halfhand again and he'll give him a mission.

[Morrigan]

Ran, on 07 May 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

First time I've ever given an episode a six. The episode is too marred by stupidity. Lorch's hokey death, Tywin's nonsensical complaints about that damned letter as if Lorch's stuck it in the wrong envelope.... it was very, very lazy writing. Which is a shame, because those first ten minutes stands up there with the any ten minutes in the series to date. Brilliant adaptation, the Theon bits.

This. Gave it a 6 as well, before I read this, but I agree with everything you wrote in this thread.

Arkash, on 07 May 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

Oh, and again, glad we didnt get any useless sex scenes... hope they will continue this way, the first part of the season was really spoiling too much time for it and eating time for other stories... hope this is over !

*coughOshacough*

Book-Osha: "fuck the Starks and their kitchen, give me a spear", kicks guy in the nuts and takes his spear, earns Theon's trust. Badass.
TV-Osha: "fuck the Starks and their kitchen, give me a spear". TV-Theon: "lol no". TV-Osha: "fine then, look at my boobies!" Theon: "lol k". Lame.

Dalfiatach, on 08 May 2012 - 01:35 AM, said:

The maddest thing about some of the book-purist nerd-rage on the forum is when they start ranting about all the naked people on TV.

They did read the same books as the rest of us, right?

http://asoiaf.wester...-the-wrong-sex/

EgoistMusketeer, on 08 May 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

I see a lot of complaints about "major" deviations. If Rodrick dies, does it really matter it Theon swung the sword or if Ramsay did?

Obvious strawman is obvious, hardly anyone has complained about this scene. I find the strawman dishonest quite telling though, and unfortunately really typical.

[rmholt]

Michaelj, on 11 May 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

Hes not off to Mance, its been confirmed he'll find the halfhand again and he'll give him a mission.

ah, you have some sekrit info?  OK I'll trust you

[BoldAsYouPlease]

packersfan, on 10 May 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

As for Osha, Bran, Rickon, and Hodor and the lack of Reeds, I think this is going to problematic.  My friend thinks that they must run into the Reeds later (next season...HBO didn't want to hire more child actors maybe this season).  Since in the books Osha and Rickon go one way and the Reeds, Bran and Hodor go north, how will that work without the Reeds?  Also, remember that eventually Davos is dispatched by Manderly of White Harbor to find Rickon.  Hopefully, the writers have only rearranged events a little and not completely bungled up these seemingly little things, which could have far greater impact.

My guess is that the producers aren't too concerned with the impact on future story-lines from the books because they know they'll need to write their own ending to this show. Even if they manage to milk two seasons out of each of the next three books, they will have caught up to Martin's written story in 6 years, and there's no guarantee that TWoW will even be out by then. Further, it's questionable if HBO will continue with an expensive series for 8+ seasons - has any HBO series lasted longer than 6 seasons?

I think the divergence from the written story is only going to increase - the question is whether the conclusion of the books will in any way match the ending of the TV series which will have ended years earlier.

[Winter Wasnt That Bad]

This episode was the best of season 2 for me.  Really like the guy who plays Theon, he is the perfect Theon (in way over his head at Winterfell), plus the guy can flat out act.

The riot scene riveted me.  I thought it would be a letdown, like Renly's death was. But I was wrong.  You could really sense the menace in the crowd, and the fear growing in the royal entourage.  Ncely done.

[Michaelj]

rmholt, on 11 May 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

ah, you have some sekrit info?  OK I'll trust you

You think im making this up? :S I forgot where I read it but I think it was episode 8 or episode 10 but the halfhand "gives Jon a mission". Which if you read the books you'll know what the mission is. So unless the halfhand does a search mission for Jon and finds him and decides to flat out give the mission then I think it hard to believe.

[Vic-tarion Rattlehead]

I gave it 7. Not a bad episode, but nothing outstanding. Too much dubious material added by the directors/scriptwriters - Roose sending a letter to Ramsay to march on Winterfell (now we can assume, that we're gonna see a glimpse of the bastard in season's last episode); Jayne Westerling posing as some Volantein wench; ser Rodrik executed by Theon; Yigreet flirting with Jon on their first encounter... and of cause the abduction of Dany's dragons by the warlocks. They could avoid all of this stuffing and just leave more screen time to actual book narrative. A shame.

[BlackTalon]

Vic-tarion Rattlehead, on 13 May 2012 - 02:57 AM, said:

some Volantein wench; ...  Yigreet flirting with Jon

Gods be good

[Vic-tarion Rattlehead]

BlackTalon, on 13 May 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

Gods be good

IT IS KNOWN

[Rollo Tomasi]

I gave it a 9.

Ygritte flirting with Jon was hilarious.

Dany was a fool to leave her dragons unprotected like that. I thought that was bad writing on the writers part. Its very different in the book.

I also like what they did with the Hound and "the little bird".

[Harrad]

Sorry to say but this episode was really when the season took off...That of course means the previous 5 were not great.  Good but not great. At the end of episode 6 I said "nooooooooooooooooooooooo....too soon."

[RhymesWithFreak]

Gave it a good 8.

Pros:

Faster pace
Theon seizing Winterfell
Rodrik's death
Riot scene
Jon and Halfhand ambushing the Wildlings
Arya and Tywin

Cons:

Littlefinger showing up at Harrenhal
Daenerys' dragons being taken