276 replies to this topic

[Ran]

First time I've ever given an episode a six. The episode is too marred by stupidity. Lorch's hokey death, Tywin's nonsensical complaints about that damned letter as if Lorch's stuck it in the wrong envelope.... it was very, very lazy writing. Which is a shame, because those first ten minutes stands up there with the any ten minutes in the series to date. Brilliant adaptation, the Theon bits.

Edited by Ran, 07 May 2012 - 04:30 AM.

[ICE CROW]

Ran, on 07 May 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

First time I've ever given an episode a six. The episode is too marred by stupidity. Lorch's hokey death, tywin's nonsensical complaints about that damned letter as if Lorch's stuck it in the wrong envelope.... it was very, very lazy writing. Which is a shame, because those ten minutes stands up there with the any ten minutes in the series to date. Brilliant adaptation, the Theon bits.

Just finished reading your analysis of the episode and i have to say i agree 100% with everything you and Linda had to say. With the exception of Arya and Tywin scene everything at Harrenhall was just awful, by far the worst writing of a scene or group of scenes in the series to date. I have decided that im just going to imagine that what they are doing at Qarth is a bad dream, im not going to care about Daenerys story again till she leaves Qarth.

With all the bad there was, i still rate this episode an 7 because i feel everything else that happened was done and written well. The actors performance across the board were amazing, with Peter Dinklage and Alfie Allen stealing the show.

Edit: just watched it again and i have to drop my original 8 down to a 7, luckily i forgot to to press the vote button earlier.

Edited by ICE CROW, 07 May 2012 - 05:46 AM.

[Linda]

Worst episode of this season and last despite a great start. Idiotic writing for Arya's sequences, utterly lame writing for that horrendous Robb & Talisa scene and a total destruction of Dany's storyline.

What an utter waste.

[Lady Meera Reed]

8 for the Theon (how awesome was he? And Bran? Ahhh my heart!), and also KL riot bits

[JW.]

Another episode of total hit and miss on certain occasions,

It just seems that whenever the writers stick to the book and closely adapt it, awesome stuff happens. But when they start to change stuff and move things around, the quality just drops by miles and the famous Butterfly effect is all over the place, or now.. Butterfly Virus.

- I loved, loved Ygritte and Jon. Rose Leslie did such a great job in those few scenes, it lived up my anticipation atleast.
- Alfie Allen as Theon Greyjoy, We finally get to see that arrogant prick from the books and he shines, that scene with Ser Rodrik was brutal.
- Tyrion and anything Lannister related in King's Landing, Dinklage never fails to disapoint. By far the best actor in the series, and the most consistent.

What i didn't like:

- The total Butchery of Dany's storyline, i had a hard time relating to her storyline in the books and finding anything likeable about her.. the show just made it worse for me personally.
- Ser Armory Lorch getting killed right infront of Lord Tywin, was this supossed to be a lame attempt at humour?
- Littlefinger speed racing all across the Seven Kingdoms, is there no travel time in this world? I'd reckon with the war going on in the Riverlands and all, it would take even longer.
- Shae is pointless
- Robb and Talisa from Volantis, More proof that the writers really should stick close to the books, because the changes seem to be utter crap.

It might sound somewhat of a rant, but this season has been such a incredible letdown, it really hurts. Expecations were to high? maybe, but then again they did such a fine job with season 1 so they sure are capable of a faithfull and decent adaption. I'm giving this episode a 6 out of 10, If Baelor was a 9.. i'm not sure how this could be a 8.

Half of it is amazing, the other half subpar. The story of the season for me personally so far.

[BlackTalon]

Ran, on 07 May 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

First time I've ever given an episode a six. The episode is too marred by stupidity. Lorch's hokey death, Tywin's nonsensical complaints about that damned letter as if Lorch's stuck it in the wrong envelope.... it was very, very lazy writing. Which is a shame, because those first ten minutes stands up there with the any ten minutes in the series to date. Brilliant adaptation, the Theon bits.

Linda, on 07 May 2012 - 04:08 AM, said:

Worst episode of this season and last despite a great start. Idiotic writing for Arya's sequences, utterly lame writing for that horrendous Robb & Talisa scene and a total destruction of Dany's storyline.

What an utter waste.

I gave this episode a  4  and it was not worse only because Theon and Ser Rodrik saved the day.

Sad, I never thought I´d have to do this to an episode. Sheer needless stupidity in so many scenes. Ygritte chase, Dany throwing a spoilt-brat fit with cracking voice, "Talisa" ... Why?

I wonder If GRRM watches every episode and what he thinks of them. Might be time for him to start throwing his weight around a bit to save seasons 3 and 4.

Edited by BlackTalon, 07 May 2012 - 04:43 AM.

[JW.]

BlackTalon, on 07 May 2012 - 04:40 AM, said:

I wonder If GRRM watches every episode and what he thinks of them. Might be time for him to start throwing his weight around a bit to save seasons 3 and 4.

Heh, i'd love to hear his honest opinion on these changes without a camera around, surely there must be parts of the adaption in this season so far that atleast worry him. Compared to Season 1 this season hasn't done his books much justice, atleast in part. All the intrigue he builds up in the books, are simply not present in the series, most of it has become a cliché fest.

I'm really starting to question the quality of the writers hired on the show, if you can't create gold with this kind of source material..

Edit: And don't give me the excuse about the time limit, the writers seem to have plenty of time to write in unessecary plotlines and characters, with to much screentime to boot.

Edited by JW., 07 May 2012 - 04:48 AM.

[Balintos]

There were several changes from the book. About half of them were brilliant, and half of them were really bad. It was a good episode with a few terrible scenes.

Edited by Balintos, 07 May 2012 - 05:00 AM.

[Thunderfist]

I gave this episode a 4. For each episode I´m getting more and more worried about the future of the series. There seems to be changes made for nothing else than the sake of change. I´ve begun to hope that GRRM will give David & Dan the Tyrion/Joffrey treatment "slap, slap, slap-eti-slap" before this show goes further downhill.

[Zod]

I love the improvements to Dany's storyline. The House of Undying scenes will be much more interesting now.


The future of "Game of Thrones" is saved!

Edited by Zod, 07 May 2012 - 05:11 AM.

[The Anti-Targ]

Very worried that they are not going to pull off Jon / Qhorin climax with as much poignancy or emotion as in the book, worried indeed that We've seen the last of Qhorin.

Other than that very happy with the episode.

8/10

[sennahoj]

This was the best so far this season, gave it a 10.

[Mr Fixit]

I'm really starting to wonder. Who are all those people who give high marks in polls?

Judging by the comments, we are witnessing a hideous catastrophe of a TV show. Always nice to see people put things in perspective.

[Sun]

Fantastic hour of Television! I gave this episode a 9. Only the second 9 I've given this season (the first three episodes never got past a 5 rating for me).
The main fault I found in the show tonight was the dopey way Amory Lorch died, that was a set up more fit for a Die Hard movie, not GOT. but other than that, I thought it was great!
I am a little concerned about the way the way Arya seems to bonding with Tywin, but they need to give her an excuse not to name him for the kill, I suppose, so... whatever.

Changes in Dany's arc don't bother me at all, I can see why they're doing it. Dany's arc past AGOT is interminably boring and contrived, imo, and anything the writers can do to spruce it up will have me cheering. I'm looking forward to seeing how it unfolds.

The Talysa character concerns me. I had hoped seeing her again might help quiet my concerns, unfortunately her scene with Robb tonight did no such thing. The dialogue, both times we've seen Robb & Talysa together, is so banal, I wouldn't be surprised to find out it had been written on a software template for "Schlock Hollywood Romances for The Young at Heart & Empty of Head".... Sigh.  But I'm not gonna whine about her yet. I'll wait and see what happens. Thankfully, Talysa's presence on screen was brief enough not to distract from the general quality of the ep.

All in all tonight's ep made for splendid TV that contained possibly the best 10 minutes I've seen on the tube this year!  Seriously! Theon's taking of Winterfell was fabulously written, paced, plotted, photographed, scored and acted! I wept when Roderik died. I never wept for him in the books.

ETA:

Forgot to mention Jon and Ygritte. Loved those scenes, and found Rose Leslie wonderful in the part. The chase scene was very well done, especially the photography.

Edited by Sun, 07 May 2012 - 06:27 AM.

[ipsuel]

It's a 6 for me... mainly for the reasons others have already mentioned. I loved the Winterfell part, and think Alfie Allen played his part to perfection. I also loved the Tywin/Arya bits even though they were silly illogical. Not a fan of the riot, but I understand there is only so much budget to go around, and I love the Lannister story-lines so the KL stuff is a-ok by me...

But the Dany, Talysa, and Jon issues killed me. Most importantly the Jon stuff... I don't mind changes when necessary, or when it improves upon an arc -- but Jon/Qhorin is too important to fk with imo.

So... I gave it a 6, and I was probably being generous.

[The Monkey]

9/10

The Theon scenes were extraordinary, and the death of Ser Rodrick carried almost as much emotion as Ned's death last season. Alfie Allen has become one of my favourite actors on the show. Issac Hempstead-Wright is also doing a fantastic job as Bran, it's so hard to imagine he's only 12. When you see all the horrible child actors in other movies and TV-shows, it's such a relief to see true young talent on this show.

Dany's rant was a bit dumb, but the twist with the stolen Dragons was a nice twist, and adds some compelling storylines to what was the worst part in the book.

Arya's scenes were great as always, some real tension at her scene with Tywin and Littlefinger. Lorch's death was a bit contrived, but it gave a good excuse as to why Arya didn't name anyone important as her second kill (something that bothered me in the book). The personal chat between Arya and Tywin about their fathers was nice and brilliantly acted from both Maise and Charles (as always). They are making Tywin a bit gentler in the TV show, but I don't mind in the least. It will only serve to make Tyrion and Tywin's conflict in later seasons all the more powerful, as viewers will supposedly "root" for the both of them.

The Jon scenes were a bit of a drag at times, but the wonder scenery more than made up for the wooden acting.

Also, the Bastard of the Dreadfort!!

[Mr Fixit]

I must admit I'm having real problems following Elio's and Linda's recaps lately.

Let me say that I have great respect for their enthusiasm, love, and knowledge of the Martin's world. Their reviews are thorough, well-written, and interesting to read.

But lately they are sounding more and more like uberfans that have trouble separating books and TV. I don't know what it is, but the nature of their critiques is increasingly becoming impenetrable and hard to follow, silly and excessive nit-picking is piling up, and overall sense of "that's not how it was in the books" is really starting to grate on me.

Not to say that the series is perfect; far from it. I myself enjoyed the first season more (though not by much). But comparing their reviews to many others (by non-book-readers, for example) betrays how extremely biased in their "protection of the spirit of the novels" they've become.

Some quotes from the review that are frankly quite bothersome because they reveal the inability to consider the show on its own for a moment:


Perhaps those problems are more acute when you know what the adaptation changes have been

...play off incidents for humor that betray the tone of the novels

Martin himself did it just fine in the novel...

It is difficult to convey just how poorly this action-upped Qarth is coming out in our eyes, when compared to what’s actually in the novels

writers of the show (...) betray a particular lack of understanding of what’s really going on in Qarth

...would it have truly been so hard to match Martin’s vision?

Martin carefully avoids the topic of dragon theft in Essos

It’s an okay scene, but it doesn’t feel like anything in the spirit of the novels

Edited by Mr Fixit, 07 May 2012 - 06:13 AM.

[Victaerys Ironfist]

Absolutely LOVED this episode.

[Ran]

Unless I'm mistaken, David and Dan themselves have made a great effort to emphasize that they're adapting the series and staying true to its spirit.

That's the benchmark they themselves have set. We merely judge them by that benchmark, since we are largely a site about the books, after all. If you take issue with it, that's more of an issue with the goals they themselves have articulated.

And no amount of ignoring the books makes the Lorch sequence any less stupid, whether you ignore the books or not. It was genuinely lazy, stupid writing that insults the intelligence of viewers.

ETA:

Or to put it more simply -- D&D have articulated two important aims for their adaptation: that it maintain the spirit of the novels and that it be good television. Good television sometimes means compression or outright changes, it is true, and as I've noted more than once, they have made some perfectly good choices in this regard, sometimes even inspired ones (the Bran-Theon scene combines elements from four different chapters, and fits them together in a unique and good way).

So... judge on those two axes: how much does a scene succeed to hew to the spirit of the novels, and how good is the scene as television? Judging the show purely as drama ignores the stated ambitions of the producers, just as judging it purely as an adaptation ignores it.

Edited by Ran, 07 May 2012 - 06:40 AM.

[Sun]

One added note:

I love how Emilia is making Dany as annoying and shrill in the show as she is in the books. Whether intentional or not, I love it.

Edited by Sun, 07 May 2012 - 06:27 AM.