379 replies to this topic

[Daario]

jarl the climber, on 08 May 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

Bran- will return from beyond the wall. Will go to Kings Landing and join the Warrior Sons. Will have the High Septon make charges against Jamie and the Queen for incest and attemopted murder.

Jarl, may i ask what led you to this theory?

[Ashas Globetrotter]

Interesting theories. Sorry if I`m a bit off topic ; Regarding R+L=J. Sorry that i don`t remember all the points and don`t have the energy to go through all the old forum posts. My question: These RLJ theorists, even with all the logic, plausibility and so forth that supports this theory, how do they account for GRRM repeatedly describing Jon as the spitting image of Ned? Catelyn states he has all of Ned and nothing of her.  Is the father +son likeness just a coincident? You don`t just grow into looking like Ned Stark by living with him. In that case that would be very bad writing, and not likely for a writer like GRRM.

[A Bong of Ice and Fire]

I am pretty confident in these predictions being at least partially accurate:

1. Benjen Stark, alive, will return to the saga as we go with him way north to investigate and confront the Others' threat.

2. Howland Reed will not appear.  No further information of Jon's parentage will be given.  (This will come in ADoS.)

3. The Faceless Men will be revealed as the emissaries of their God of Death, the Great Other.  (Why should all other Gods have their faithful followers "on Earth", but not the Great Other?)  They will send Arya on a mission to assasinate someone important and dangerous to the Others.  (Arya will be used because she can get close to the target, maybe Jon Snow or Bran Stark or someone.)  Arya's story will end in a cliffhanger as she tries to decide what to do.

4. Stannis will prevail in Winterfell and will grow stronger.  By the end of the book he will be ready to try and take King's Landing again.

5. Jaime and Brienne will somehow outwit UnCatelyn and go off on some quest together to do something important and honorable.  (Don't know what exactly.)

6. Gendry will rise to head the Brotherhood, who will do heroic deeds.  (This may happen in ADoS.)

Everything else is speculation.

Edited by A Bong of Ice and Fire, 09 May 2012 - 03:37 PM.

[LostSoul]

Hi, First timer here.. just wanted to say love this forum and I really enjoyed reading all these theories

[nothatso]

Ashas Globetrotter, on 09 May 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

Interesting theories. Sorry if I`m a bit off topic ; Regarding R+L=J. Sorry that i don`t remember all the points and don`t have the energy to go through all the old forum posts. My question: These RLJ theorists, even with all the logic, plausibility and so forth that supports this theory, how do they account for GRRM repeatedly describing Jon as the spitting image of Ned? Catelyn states he has all of Ned and nothing of her.  Is the father +son likeness just a coincident? You don`t just grow into looking like Ned Stark by living with him. In that case that would be very bad writing, and not likely for a writer like GRRM.

There is a series of threads about R+L=J pinned to the top of the general board. If R+L=J, then Jon (through Lyanna) would still be half stark. Eddard's own children are "half Stark" and Arya looks just like Lyanna while all of the others look like Catelyn. Similarly, only one of Rhaegar's two children had "Targaryen features" according to GRRM, his daughter inherited the Dornish features of her mother. You really shouldn't read too deeply into the genetics of this series because it seems rather inconsistent.

Edited by nothatso, 09 May 2012 - 01:32 PM.

[Astaporridge]

All we know for sure, except the sample chapters, is that GRRM will be taking the story up north places unseen before.

My pick for this would be a Brann POV, as he watches his uncle Benjen discover the Others headquarters on a gigantic glacier under the glimmer of magnificent northern lights. From this he learns that the only way to defeat the icy foe is actually to attack their premises.

As a final result the North will become an independent kingdom while KL is burnt and destroyed either by wildfire or dragonfire.

Forgive me my north-centric prophecies and affection. I'm Finnish

[dollybird]

I love these topics and I love reading all the ideas they are so interesting and its funny how everyone has such different views. I have been doing a bit of speculating, heres what I think.....

I think we will find out what brought about the return of magic, the others, the dire wolves, the dragons. I think theres a link between them all and something triggered it. Bran will hopefully tell us.

I think Theon and Ramsey B will get whats coming to them and I hope it will be worth waiting for!

Gendry will turn up again somewhere in the story.

The hound will make his comeback and when he does I'll dance around the house. Perhaps he will have a part in freeing Sansa from LF's grasp. He'll finally get the revenge he wished for all his life and kill his now zombie brother frankengregor.

I think Cersie is down but definitely not out. She's like a wounded animal she's going to strike with a vengeance. She'll probably kill Margery and make decisions that will ultimately bring about her own demise.

Davos will find Rickon. Not sure whats next for them.

I agree about Victorian, he's a dead man walking, he'll go out with a bang though.

We will find out what happened to Benjen Stark. I think he's alive!!

We'll find out about this dragon at Winterfell.

Barristan the bold will be reunited with Dany to tell her everything he knows about her family. Maybe he'll die the honorable death he deserves and songs will be sung about him!

Jamie, Brienne and UNCat....No idea whats going on there I just really hope Cat is around long enough to learn of Jon's true parentage and grovel at his feet before he kill's her good and dead once and for all, ha!!

Sam will find out all the important info for fighting the others.

The new Targ prince, Aegon is a fake and this will be revealed.

Arya will decide that she wants to be Arya after all and will leave the faceless men. She will decide she wants to return to winterfell. Perhaps she will meet someone that will make her realize it ( jon??...read on for that theory)!!


SphinxTheRiddle above, I am thinking along the same lines. I have said it in other posts that I think whats going on now in Westeros is all a result of lust, greed, envy, love and all those other things. People are fighting and dying and the country is ravaged and war torn all all for what?? This is not the real fight. the people will realize that the real fight is coming. Winter is coming!!!!

The ultimate battle is not going to be for the iron throne. It's going to be between the people of Westeros and the others. In order for this to take place the others have to get past the wall.

Jon Snow is not dead. But if the others defeat the NW and pass over the wall what chance would Jon have of surviving? He has to be out of there before that happens. I think the wall is in chaos after he was attacked. The wildlings and the remaining men on the NW are fighting,  a lot of them die, drastically reducing their numbers even further and they can not hold the wall. The remaining wildlings scatter. The remaining wildlings scatter. The others arrive and wipe out who ever is left.

Jon will need obvious treatment after the attack. All except a few think he is dead and to protect him and give him the opportunity to heal and recover Mel or The wildlings send him across the narrow sea with the Bravosi banker. Thats the only way to keep him safe. There he will recover, gain his strength and be Jon OR die and be reborn as AA. He will meet up with Arya, maybe thats why she decides to go home She'll find Nym and her pack and probably live in the wild happily). Jon will also meet up with Tyrion and Dany and they will be the 3 heads of the dragon. They won't return to Westeros until the end of the book or the start of the next one but when they return the people are desperate. Hoping for a savior and hoping to be free from the grasp of the others and with the dragons they will free their people and restore order in Westeros!

Hot Pie wins hot pie wars on the food network, opens a shop in Kingslanding and lives happily ever after.....!

[ThePickler]

dollybird, on 09 May 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

The hound will make his comeback and when he does I'll dance around the house. Perhaps he will have a part in freeing Sansa from LF's grasp. He'll finally get the revenge he wished for all his life and kill his now zombie brother frankengregor.

Although Sandor is my favourite character I really hope that this does not happen. Hatred for Gregor is what created "The Hound"..."It was hate that drove him. Though he committed many sins he never sought forgiveness. Where other men dream of love, or wealth or glory, this man Sandor Clegane dreamed of slaying his own brother"... and as the priests states The Hound is dead, with it you can assume his hatred towards his brother as well. Besides whatever Robert Strong is, it doesn't appear to be the Gregor that we have come to know. Killing him would provide little satisfaction if "the Hound"  were to return.

[RhegARRR The Pirate King]

IN ANYONE ELSE TALKING ABOUT THIS???

At the end of Clash of Kings, through the eyes of Bran's warged Direworlf, we see "a great winged snake whose roar was a river of flame". Later in the Bran chapter, Osha says, "we made noise enough to wake a Dragon."  Jojen comments on the "the power of fire."

I think this winged snake is a Dragon leaving Winterfell. At the very least, it is certainly implied as a possibility. The ingredients are certainly there, fire and kings blood. I am very interested to see what light the final episode of this season's HBO Series sheds on this issue. While GRRM hints at this subtly, the TV Show will have a more difficult time handling this scene with similar delicacy. Furthermore, given the way the show has opted for such an explicit portrayal of the Renly, Loras, Margery love, sex triangle, I find it hard to believe they will pass on the opportunity to end this season with the image of a giant CGI Dragon fleeing a burning Winterfell.

If, in fact, we find out that there are Dragon's still alive in the 7 Kingdoms, besides the 3 that Danaery's birthed, it seems reasonable that there would be more than just the one.

MY BOLD PREDICTION: There is a Dragon hidden/frozen inside the Wall. I may be mistaken on this, but I believe Bran the Builder is credited with the construction of both Winterfell and the Wall. Most of us on here are in agreement that Bran will warg a Dragon. I think the Dragons that Bran/Jon will warg are the one from Winterfell and the one hidden in the Wall, not one of Danaery's Dragons. This prediction makes sense for these reasons:

1) Bran and Danaery's are literally on opposite ends of the world. Logistically, how are they going to meet up over the course of 1.5 novels and still resolve their respective plot lines?

2) The horn of Joromund. Euron has a horn that controls dragons. It certainly makes sense that the Horn of Joromund would bring down the Wall by releasing the Dragon frozen inside it, and the parity is quite elegant.

3) The obvious connection between Bran the Builder and Bran.

4) It solves a lot of logistical issues with other theories. If R + L = J, this would allow him to be Azor Ahai, have Dragons, reunite with Bran, and fight the Others while Danaery's conquers Westeros with her Dragons.

5) It would be soooo fucking epic!

Credit To: SellmySord

[dollybird]

RhegARRR The Pirate King, on 10 May 2012 - 02:41 AM, said:

IN ANYONE ELSE TALKING ABOUT THIS???

At the end of Clash of Kings, through the eyes of Bran's warged Direworlf, we see "a great winged snake whose roar was a river of flame". Later in the Bran chapter, Osha says, "we made noise enough to wake a Dragon."  Jojen comments on the "the power of fire."

I think this winged snake is a Dragon leaving Winterfell.

Credit To: SellmySord

Ya its being talked about in a few places. I'm not sure if there is an entire thread dedicated to it but is definitely been pointed out. In fact if you care to read my post above I have also mentioned it in my prediction, just 2 posts above yours when I said-

" WE'LL FIND OUT ABOUT THIS DRAGON AT WINTERFELL"

I totally agree there is a dragon at Winterfell. Those crypts are way too spooky and no one goes any deeper then they need to but they are deep. Perect hiding place for a dragon!!

[Ashas Globetrotter]

Thanks for the summary nothatso

!  Didn`t think about Lyannas blood, so that explains a bit.

Edited by Ashas Globetrotter, 10 May 2012 - 05:50 AM.

[kha_alim]

Here are my predictions:

Danny: She's goint to return to Vaes Dothrak, and rally ALL the khalasars behind her, while fulfilling the dothraki profecy, that one day all the khallasars will return to Vaes Dothrak. Also, no blood can be spilled in Vaes Dothrak, but dargonfire is ok, so she's going to roast her opponents. And according to dothraki tradition, no woman may set foot on the holy mountain, but luckily she has a dragon, she can fly. She will return to Mereen with Vaes Dothrak. I'm not sure how or when she'll get the chance to travel to Assai. In her prophecy she must pass beneath the shadow to reach the light...but when? I also belive she has suffered 2 of the 3 betrayals, and one more remains, the one for love.

Tyrion: He's going to save the hostages, and find out who the harpy is. He is probably going to make use of Victarion and his horn in order to do this. He will become the quees hand after sir grandfather dies.

Victarion: He's going to be the admiral of Danny's fleet. He will annihilate the enemy fleets with the dragons.

Moroqqo: Will become one of first Tyrion's and then Danny's advisors.

Jon: I don't care abut that bastard. Mellisandre will take over the Wall POV. (and she will probably save Jon, the same way UnCat exists, but Jon will still have his original soul, because he;s a warg)

Stannis: He's going to hold his ground and defeat the Freys. He will take Theon to the Tree to face his judgement and execution.

Brann: He will spare(save) Theon's life, forgive him for what he's done, and make him a man (according to Theon's religion, Gods make men, men make crowns), giving him a new prupose in life: Brann(the Old Gods) will order Theon to take back Winterfell. He will also tell the hilltribes to help Theon in retaking Winterfell. He will learn more about The Others. He will complete his training and become the next greenseear.

Theon: Theon will take Winterfell the same way the bastard of Bolton took it from him (bit of irony from G). He will have help from the Manderlys. The pink letter is sent after the troops return with Stanises sword, and before the Boltons are slaughtered by Theon's men (the hilltribes of the north). He will earn the respect of the ironmen, by being the only person alive that gods have spoken for, and for being the only person to take Winterfell, twice. Also, the ironmen religion states, 'what is dead may never die, but rise again harder and stronger', and Theon's been dead. There are actually two persons who fit this, Theon is one, and Danny is the second. Eventually everyone will think she died before she returns with a million bloodriders by her side.

Asha: Will be completely taken by the new Theon, and will do everything she can to make him the king of the iron islands. This probably won't happen until the verry end of aSoIaF.

Arya: Will complete her training. She will return to Westeros.

Cersei: I have no idea what stupid ideas Cersei will have, but she will try everything to stay in power. I think she's already crazy, insane, mad for power, and she will continue on the same path of selfdestruction. She'll prob get it from UnJamie and not Tyrion as she fears (this may also not happen in winds, but maybe in the final book).

Sansa: She will survive the Vale. She may become Littlefingers sexual plaything, it would be quite fitting for her.
Littlefinger: He is going to consolidate his power in the Vale and the possibly the Riverlands. He will never step foot in Harrenhall.

The 3 heads of the dragon: Danny, Aegon, and ? (but not Jon, cuz he took the black, even if he lives, even if he's Targ, he can't leave the Wall, ever...)
The 3 dragonriders: Danny, Euron (thanks to the horn) and Theon, yes Theon, with Bran warging the dragon.

[dollybird]

kha_alim, on 10 May 2012 - 07:31 AM, said:

The 3 dragonriders: Danny, Euron (thanks to the horn) and Theon, yes Theon, with Bran warging the dragon.

BOOOOOO!! Theon sucks...........!!

[Ferrous]

My prediction is that Roose sees the writing on the wall (now that 'Arya' has escaped)- and after sending out the Manderley's and Freys to fight Stannis retreats from Winterfell with his men.
He has no use for Ramsay and leaves him behind to get killed by Stannis so he can avoid becoming a kinslayer.

Ramsay is now ironically in a very similar position to Theon was in ACOK and sends the letter to Jon in desperation.

[Not_a_Lady_Brienne]

Wow, I really enjoy reading this and impressed with everyone who has predictions for the complete set of characters.

I only have a few:

Jon: Not dead.  Never died.  I know there's arguments and precedents in the story for him 1) warging into Ghost to survive temporarily, 2) being healed Moqorro-style by Melisandre, and 3) becoming Un-Jon.  I have a gut feeling it's just a regular, albeit lucky, survival that we've seen dozens of times before (Arya takes the Hound's axe to her head; Bran falling from the tower; Davos being beheaded; Asha getting axed by a Northman, etc. etc.)  Business roughly as usual will continue at the Wall, but maybe with Jon learning a bit more about warging while he's recovering.

Arya: Will return to Westeros and leave the FM.  I don't think it will be a conscious choice on either side- I just think events will happen that will separate her from them.  She joins up with Nymeria and her gigantic wolf pack.

Boltons: Either Roose or Ramsay will die.  Roose I think is too smart, and will have Ramsay killed or otherwise put out of the way, hopefully by letting Stannis give him to R'hllor.  I think Roose's confession that all of Ramsey's boys (Skinner, Damon-Dance-for-Me) are actually Roose's men will come into play.  Ferrous, I like your idea of Roose retreating from Winterfell when he realizes the danger.

Myrcella: Will be crowned and die, in fulfillment of Maggy the Frog's prophecy.  I suppose Dorne can crown her, but I'm not sure how that will happen.  Or maybe Margaery will be out of the picture after the trial and Cersei will marry Myrcella and Tommen :-p

Other than that, I have no idea- so many variables!

[Isy]

Arya: To bring her back into the story I see her being given an assignment to kill someone we know. This could go many ways: perhaps the Slavers enlist the FM to kill off Dany; the Iron Bank enlist the FM to kill Cersei for her not paying her dues; or, something really tragic would be Arya given the task of killing someone close to her / a Stark to prove she has cut her ties with her "old life".

Sam: Will be our eyes in the Citadel. hoping befriend Sallera/Alleras the SandSnake. Will reveal the truth about The Others and/or some more aspects of the PWTP/AA prophecy and why Rhaegar was so obsessed with it - but of course will be so far south that he will have no way to let Jon/The Wall know in time.

AzorAhai: Still torn as to who this is: I was convinced it was Dany, but then Mel during her visions asked to see AA and kept seeing Jon... this could tie-in with the "dragon has three heads" but I think it will end up being Dany and Jon might be lightbringer.

Jon: Has warged to Ghost.

Mel: Will be our eyes at the Wall. I imagine we will see the Others come out in force just as "war" breaks out between NW/Wildlings.

Stannis: The pink letter is very confusing; I believe it was sent by Bolton believing it to be true HOWEVER it will be base don false information provided by Manderley. I do believe Stannis will die by the end of the book though (I don;t get why he is so popular with readers!!!)

Davos: We;ll see him make his way into Skaggos to find Osha/Rickon.

Mereen: I think Ser Barristan, Tyrion and Victarion will be our eyes in the city for the first third of the book as war breaks out there. Then Dany will appear (wihout any chapter describing what she has been up to until this point) with a Khalasar. upon meeting Tyrion she demands that if he is to earn her trust, then he must uncover te Harpy - which being Tyrion he is does. Imagine a lot of rivalry and tension between Tyrion and Selmy and Mormont. After taking Mereen and fending off Volantis she will leave the city as a "free city" like the western cities of Essos. Then she decides it is time to go "home" - everyone thinks westwards, but instead she heads East through the shadowlands. In the epilouge she is witnessed to reach the shores of Westeros.

Sansa: I believe Brienne will make it to the Vale (eventually) and will encounter Sansa (still in disguise). As Brienne is about to go, there will be a culmination to Sansa/LF story that leads to Brienne stepping in and saving Sansa and Sansa realising what a controlfreak LF is. Revealed Sansa will rally Robin, and therefore the Vale to the Riverlands/North cause.

Cersei: The clarity of not drinking for a while turns her into a more clearheaded and ruthless leader. Jamie returns to Kl and she kills him for his failure to come to her aid.

Dorne: Not sure what will go on here, other than being the viewpoint for Aegon's uprising.

Bran: Will replace Bloodraven who's powers are all but gone. Becomes the new Weirwood supremo.


--

ETA: I like what Dollybird said about the ultimate fight not being about the Iron Throne, but about survival / The Others. For this to happen the different kindgoms MUST be united (hence why I think we have been introduced to the youngsters from each kingdom). I believe that this will be what Dany comes to realise in Mereen. Leading is not about conquering and then sitting back, it is about uniting the different factions to a common goal: she will have Tyrion and Victarion onside, and if she deals with the Others, then hopefully she can be a figurehead that everyone wil appreciate.

REDLION:

Quote

Jon Snow won't die, because smoke came out of his wounds and more importantly because GRRM is so obviously not done with him.

I don't remember the smoke from the wounds, but that might suggest at the point he got stabbed he is a mirage created by Mel?

Edited by Isy, 10 May 2012 - 04:09 PM.

[wotad]

so theres 3 dragons and a rumoured 4th in winterfell?

[PatrickStormborn]

Not_a_Lady_Brienne, on 10 May 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

Jon: Not dead.  Never died.  I know there's arguments and precedents in the story for him 1) warging into Ghost to survive temporarily, 2) being healed Moqorro-style by Melisandre, and 3) becoming Un-Jon.  I have a gut feeling it's just a regular, albeit lucky, survival that we've seen dozens of times before (Arya takes the Hound's axe to her head; Bran falling from the tower; Davos being beheaded; Asha getting axed by a Northman, etc. etc.)  Business roughly as usual will continue at the Wall, but maybe with Jon learning a bit more about warging while he's recovering.

I'm sorry but I completely disagree. None of these situations are comparable to Jon, who got stabbed multiple times. His survival would be ridiculous.

In addition, I'm sure the plot requires him to be dead for a while, so that the Wall can fall.

[wotad]

i dont want jon to die also i read on wiki the writer wanted to focus a book on dany on her way back to Westeros i read on wiki anyone else see this?

After A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, and A Storm of Swords, Martin originally intended to write three more books. The fourth book, tentatively titled A Dance with Dragons, was to focus on Daenerys Targaryen's return to Westeros and the associated conflicts. Martin wanted to set this story five years after A Storm of Swords so that the younger characters could grow older and the dragons grow large

Edited by wotad, 11 May 2012 - 02:41 AM.

[Not_a_Lady_Brienne]

PatrickStormborn, on 11 May 2012 - 02:09 AM, said:

I'm sorry but I completely disagree. None of these situations are comparable to Jon, who got stabbed multiple times. His survival would be ridiculous.

In addition, I'm sure the plot requires him to be dead for a while, so that the Wall can fall.

True, some of those situations I mentioned were just literary suspense (no injury happened) but I still think Bran's survival is just as improbable.  There are case reports of people surviving huge falls, and there are others of people surviving stab wounds.  For example, in the recent medical literature (http://www.sciencedi...00296101100523X) , 30/98 survivors of abdominal stab wounds had something wrong according to a CT scan, and of those, 10 did not even receive surgery despite organ injuries (and survived).  Even for penetrating injuries to the heart, there's a chance that the wound will seal spontaneously (http://www.ncbi.nlm....e01521-0026.pdf).

It's of course very improbable for someone to survive, but it's not impossible, and GRRM always says fantasy is about exaggeration of what can happen in reality. We will probably have to agree to disagree until WoW comes out.  But tbh I might like one of the more magical interventions because I think I'm just frustrated with all the recent cheap cliffhangers, and am afraid this is one of them.

As for what needs to happen for the plot, you could be right about that.  I don't have strong enough opinions to comment or predict on the future events- I usually am not able to predict those.

Edited by Not_a_Lady_Brienne, 11 May 2012 - 12:39 PM.