63 replies to this topic

[Where Went Whent]

I don't think Randyll Tarly is a bad parent. He is a very fierce and hard man who tolerates no weakness. Sending Sam to the wall was what was best for him as Randyll believed the game of thrones was not fit for him. Besides as Randyll's first son and only heir he could be used as hostage sometime. Better the wall than at horn hill I say, and look how far samwell has come. Worst parents to me are definitely Robert and Cersei...god, that couple should be arrested by social services.

[dtones520]

FuzzyJAM, on 06 May 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

What does Craster do that makes him a terrible person aside from how he acts as a parent?

As far as I can recall, the only two things we really know about him relate to how he treats his children - i.e. murdering and raping.  Other than that, he's somewhat unpleasant, but it's clear his treatment of his children is the worst thing about him.

Hmmm, those are two pretty god awful...

I mean honestly, he could volunteer all of the rest of his free time to special needs children and habitat for humanity and would still be the worst person ever because he murders all of his boys and marrys/rapes all of his daughters.

[David Selig]

SleepingBeauty, on 06 May 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

It's got to be Cat Stark for me. Purely because she didn't seem bothered at any point about poor little Rickon until she thought he was dead. And even then she didn't seem too put out by it. She spent most of her time worrying about her daughters and Robb. Maybe it's just me that thinks you should love all of your children equally.

This is ridiculous. First, the part in bold is not true at all. Second, pretty much all other parents we've seen closely in the series have been much worse than Cat. Lysa, Cersei, Robert, Tywin, Balon, Randyll Tarly, Doran Martell...

[Grumpy Midget]

Dracarya, on 06 May 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

Please tell me you're kidding? Spoiled worthless piece of shit? Harsh.

Not even gonna touch the Ned Stark shit. He can be criticised for many things, but your comment is just.. no, not touching it.

I'm dead serious.  Being sent to the wall's best thing that could have happen to Sam.  He wouldn't have amounted to much of anything otherwise.

On Ned Stark.  Two people on two separate occasions offered him a chance avoid the upcoming civil war - Renly and Littlefinger.  He chose his personal honor instead, plain and simple.

[Harlaw's Book]

Littlefinger should go on the list.  I know he's not a biological parent, but there at least 3 instances of him having guardianship over kids and doing horrible things to them.

Edited by Harlaw's Book, 06 May 2012 - 06:34 PM.

[Awesome Oberyn Martell]

FuzzyJAM, on 06 May 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

Roose finally taking an interest in his son contains such gems as chastising him by saying something along the lines of "don't make me regret the day I raped your mother".  You don't see the problem there?  

If we're ignoring Craster, Randyll Tarly is probably my choice.

Roose raping a woman doesn't make him a bad parent, he gave some help to the woman to help raise Ramsay (more than a lot). When he gets Ramsay he's already beyond a sociopath, he tries to reign him in. To judge Roose's skills as a parent we have to look at what we know of Domeric, who by all accounts was raised very well and would be a brilliant lord for House Bolton had Ramsay not killed him. Ramsay is not Roose's fault.

Sand Snake No. 9, on 06 May 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

Walder Frey.  He has so many children so he can use them as cannon (spear?) fodder.  He couldn't give a flying rat's ass about their welfare, all he cares about is what they can bring into the family by making a good marriage and whether they're ready to die for him.

This is interesting but he isn't as bad as many others. However if you want to criticise parents for their view of children as nothing more than marriage material then look no further than Hoster Tully.

Lord Baelish online, on 06 May 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

I don't think Randyll Tarly is a bad parent. He is a very fierce and hard man who tolerates no weakness. Sending Sam to the wall was what was best for him as Randyll believed the game of thrones was not fit for him. Besides as Randyll's first son and only heir he could be used as hostage sometime. Better the wall than at horn hill I say, and look how far samwell has come. Worst parents to me are definitely Robert and Cersei...god, that couple should be arrested by social services.

Randyll was going to kill Sam, not because the game was not fit for Sam. Randyll isn't vying for Kingship, it's because he was embarrassed by Sam. He sent Sam to the Wall (to die) and if he didn't go then he was going to kill him. Randyll is a dreadful father.

Grumpy Midget, on 06 May 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

I'm dead serious.  Being sent to the wall's best thing that could have happen to Sam.  He wouldn't have amounted to much of anything otherwise.

On Ned Stark.  Two people on two separate occasions offered him a chance avoid the upcoming civil war - Renly and Littlefinger.  He chose his personal honor instead, plain and simple.

Sam went to the Wall to avoid Randyll killing him, I'm sorry but sending your son to the worst place in Westeros upon threat of death is not good parenting.

Ned was a fool, Robb was also a fool. Jon was a fairly astute and clever commander who dealt with the Wildlings well. To compare Ned to people who have or threatened to kill their children is absolutely ridiculous.

Edited by Awesome Oberyn Martell, 06 May 2012 - 06:45 PM.

[Dracarya]

Grumpy Midget, on 06 May 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

I'm dead serious.  Being sent to the wall's best thing that could have happen to Sam.  He wouldn't have amounted to much of anything otherwise.

On Ned Stark.  Two people on two separate occasions offered him a chance avoid the upcoming civil war - Renly and Littlefinger.  He chose his personal honor instead, plain and simple.

I don't disagree that Sam being at the Wall is a good thing, but the way Randyll treated him was horrendous, simply because he wasn't the typical 'masculine' man he was expected to be. He chained him to a wall for wanting to become a maester, for crying out loud! Abusive, plain and simple.

Yes, they did, but I don't think it's as simple as you're making it out to be. See Awesome Oberyn Martells' post above, they've taken the words right out of my mouth (so to speak).

[Grumpy Midget]

Dracarya, on 06 May 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

I don't disagree that Sam being at the Wall is a good thing, but the way Randyll treated him was horrendous, simply because he wasn't the typical 'masculine' man he was expected to be. He chained him to a wall for wanting to become a maester, for crying out loud! Abusive, plain and simple.

Yes, they did, but I don't think it's as simple as you're making it out to be. See Awesome Oberyn Martells' post above, they've taken the words right out of my mouth (so to speak).

Because Ned's the patriarch of a powerful noble family, his failure to set good examples for his children had dire consequences for the smallfolk.

Look at it this way, if Robert and Cerscei were peasants, and Joffery grew up to be nothing more than the village bully, would they be contenders for worst parents?  No, considering only 1 of 3 of their children turned out bad.

Likewise, since Ned wasn't some farmer or shopkeep, but one of the most powerful men in the Seven Kingdoms.  Him passing on to his son his own idiotic values system, resulted in mass suffering of the common folk - mostly northerners.

[Dracarya]

Grumpy Midget, on 06 May 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

Because Ned's the patriarch of a powerful noble family, his failure to set good examples for his children had dire consequences for the smallfolk.

Look at it this way, if Robert and Cerscei were peasants, and Joffery grew up to be nothing more than the village bully, would they be contenders for worst parents?  No, considering only 1 of 3 of their children turned out bad.

Likewise, since Ned wasn't some farmer or shopkeep, but one of the most powerful men in the Seven Kingdoms.  Him passing on to his son his own idiotic values system, resulted in mass suffering of the common folk - mostly northerners.

I think Tommen and Myrcella are proof of how bad a parent Cersei was - she focused all her attention on Joffrey, and look how he turned out. He also had the pressure of trying to impress his father, which the other two didn't as much, as Joffrey was the heir to the throne. Tommen and Myrcella turned out to be lovely kids because they had very little of either of their parents' influence.

I can't argue that the decisions of the high lords have dire consequences for the smallfolk, but that's the way of the world, even now. I cannot condemn Ned for the majority of his decisions - he was a fool, but he was righteous, and he was doing what he thought was the right thing to do. He didn't just put others in danger, he put himself in danger, in order to live with a clear conscience and not betray his recently-deceased best friend. I don't totally agree with how he went about things, but I'm much more selfish than he was.

Edited by Dracarya, 06 May 2012 - 06:58 PM.

[Where Went Whent]

Did I see somebody say Lord Baelish is a bad parent? Lol. Eddard is so f**kd up a parent. He didn't tell jon who his mother was; boy was 15 for God's sake. And he tried to make Arya a lily smelling prince kissing pansy when he obviously saw what path she wanted to take. He taught all his children some bullsht theories and put them all in danger just because of personal honour. Robb died because of him, Sansa suffered, Arya is a faceless girl and his wife has become twisted. Stupid man.

[Grumpy Midget]

Dracarya, on 06 May 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

I can't argue that the decisions of the high lords have dire consequences for the smallfolk, but that's the way of the world, even now. I cannot condemn Ned for the majority of his decisions - he was a fool, but he was righteous, and he was doing what he thought was the right thing to do. He didn't just put others in danger, he put himself in danger, in order to live with a clear conscience and not betray his recently-deceased best friend. I don't totally agree with how he went about things, but I'm much more selfish than he was.

Here's one of the places I think GRRM did a wonderful job of flipping the genre on its head.  Ned knowingly plunged westeros into civil war when he backed Stannis for the throne and refused to partake in a palace coup after Robert's death.  Ned's honor was preserved but thousands died as a result.  Whereas Jaime sacrificed his honor in order to save the population of King's Landing.  As a result Jaime went from rising star to pariah in everyone's eyes.  So who was more selfless?

[SerMixalot]

Dany. she chained her dragon children in a pit, she left some of her children outside to die of the pale mare, she wouldnt do anything to stop the killing of her freed slave children until she marries the harpy causing all of the killings, sacrificed her unborn child to bring drogo back

dany hands down

[bloodymime]

Lord Baelish online, on 06 May 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

Did I see somebody say Lord Baelish is a bad parent? Lol. Eddard is so f**kd up a parent. He didn't tell jon who his mother was; boy was 15 for God's sake. And he tried to make Arya a lily smelling prince kissing pansy when he obviously saw what path she wanted to take. He taught all his children some bullsht theories and put them all in danger just because of personal honour. Robb died because of him, Sansa suffered, Arya is a faceless girl and his wife has become twisted. Stupid man.

You know that dancing instructor Ned brought in for Arya was actually a swordsman right?

[Grumpy Midget]

SerMixalot, on 06 May 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

Dany...   sacrificed her unborn child to bring drogo back

Ouch, forgot about that one.  That little stunt could almost put her on par with Craster.

[FuzzyJAM]

Grumpy Midget, on 06 May 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

Because Ned's the patriarch of a powerful noble family, his failure to set good examples for his children had dire consequences for the smallfolk.

Look at it this way, if Robert and Cerscei were peasants, and Joffery grew up to be nothing more than the village bully, would they be contenders for worst parents?  No, considering only 1 of 3 of their children turned out bad.

Likewise, since Ned wasn't some farmer or shopkeep, but one of the most powerful men in the Seven Kingdoms.  Him passing on to his son his own idiotic values system, resulted in mass suffering of the common folk - mostly northerners.

Except for the fact that Robb did something against what his father taught him in sleeping with Jeyne.  How is it Ned's fault that his son decided to deviate from his "honour code" in the stupidest way possible and then come up with some ridiculously stupid way to restore his "honour"?



His kids all love him and he tried to teach them to be upstanding people who cared about justice and integrity.  Seems like a decent parent to me.

[Dracarya]

Grumpy Midget, on 06 May 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

Here's one of the places I think GRRM did a wonderful job of flipping the genre on its head.  Ned knowingly plunged westeros into civil war when he backed Stannis for the throne and refused to partake in a palace coup after Robert's death.  Ned's honor was preserved but thousands died as a result.  Whereas Jaime sacrificed his honor in order to save the population of King's Landing.  As a result Jaime went from rising star to pariah in everyone's eyes.  So who was more selfless?

This is a different argument. I agree with you about Jaime, but it doesn't say anything about Neds' parenting. As a parent, I don't think he was too shabby, and doesn't belong on the 'worst parents' list. He didn't do very well by Jon, especially if he is his bastard and not Lyannas' son, but because we don't have the full story yet we can't really judge. With the rest of his kids, I think he did well. They're all pretty nice, well-rounded children, with good morals and a happy childhood.

[Grumpy Midget]

FuzzyJAM, on 06 May 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

Except for the fact that Robb did something against what his father taught him in sleeping with Jeyne.  How is it Ned's fault that his son decided to deviate from his "honour code" in the stupidest way possible and then come up with some ridiculously stupid way to restore his "honour"?



His kids all love him and he tried to teach them to be upstanding people who cared about justice and integrity.  Seems like a decent parent to me.

Robb could have left Jeyne with a bastard in her belly.  Instead he choose to spit in the eyes of the men who fought and bled for him.  Since Ned choose civil war over getting his hands dirty in a palace coup, I could see where Robb got his concept of "honor" from.

[Where Went Whent]

bloodymime, on 06 May 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

You know that dancing instructor Ned brought in for Arya was actually a swordsman right?

For all we know Syrio might be Jaqen Hgar in disguise. He probably tricked Eddard into letting him teach Arya. A man like Lord Eddard stark is not like to change his mind and perceptions so easily without force. see what happened when he was made to confess to the whole of king's landing that joffrey is the one true heir. Force made him do that. He's a fool.

[Stop Rhaegar HAMMERTIME!]

Craster and Jon Snow's parents, way to abandon your kid! lol

[FuzzyJAM]

Grumpy Midget, on 06 May 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

Robb could have left Jeyne with a bastard in her belly.  Instead he choose to spit in the eyes of the men who fought and bled for him.  Since Ned choose civil war over getting his hands dirty in a palace coup, I could see where Robb got his concept of "honor" from.

Except, as I've already said, if his idea of what to do came from Ned, he wouldn't have slept with Jeyne in the first place.  It's ridiculous to blame Ned for how his son decided to deal with a situation Ned told him to stay away from.