83 replies to this topic

[Ferrum Aeternum]

I am intrigued by the change but I want to see how it plays out before passing judgment one way or the other.  Depending on the creativity of the resolution, this could be a great storyline change or an awful one.  If the dragon rescue ends up just being all slap-dick action sequences I will be very disappointed.

One thing's for certain - it's given book readers a genuine shock and a mystery to watch unfold, which puts us in the same position as non-readers.  Kinda exciting!

My personal theory is that Xaro has something to do with it, and that Pyat Pree is being set up as a catspaw for the audience's (and perhaps Dany's) benefit.  XXD in the series comes off as a smooth operator but there's plenty more to him than meets the eye.  He even tells Dany that he didn't become the richest man in Qarth by following all the rules of polite society.

Edited by Ferrum Aeternum, 07 May 2012 - 08:39 AM.

[Cheese Pudding]

If her visions were not cut then HBO made a GREAT move. I was mad about it because of the "heat of the moment", now I understand it perfectly.

[Ser Giant]

I have a feeling they may kill one or two of the dragons and only leave Drogon, it would be very cost effective and I don't think we've seen any dragon this season besides Drogon.

[episodenone]

BAD Idea.  Shoulda just started with 1 egg then.

The 3 heads of the dragon are such an important plot in ASOIAF this would be a travesty.

[Greenseer Stark]

Ferrum Aeternum, on 07 May 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

My personal theory is that Xaro has something to do with it, and that Pyat Pree is being set up as a catspaw for the audience's (and perhaps Dany's) benefit.  XXD in the series comes off as a smooth operator but there's plenty more to him than meets the eye.  He even tells Dany that he didn't become the richest man in Qarth by following all the rules of polite society.

I agree with this theory. They have changed Xaro's character quite radically from the books and made him a lot more mysterious.  I think Pyat Pree was who we saw at the end of the episode. Don't like the idea of Doreah being the one to steal.

[PatrickStormborn]

The episode description for next week says that Dany receives an invitation to the House of the Undying, suggesting the warlocks stole her dragons. So I really don't see why Doreah would be taking the dragons to the House of the Undying.

[Loose seal]

If we take only what happened in the show, it's hard to guess who stole the dragons. The Spice King was mean to her, Xaro said he'd done some nasty things and the "previously on" showed us Pyat. At this point it could be any of the three.
Book readers are naturally going to suspect Pyat Pree because it'd make sense.

Either way, it was a great move, Dany's storyline in CoK was boring as hell up until the HotU.

[scurvy]

Hallar, on 07 May 2012 - 05:36 AM, said:

Not sure, but I have a feeling that the man carrying off the dragons is Ser Barristan Selmy, though, it would be a rather strange way to re-introduce him.

I actually think Whitebeard will be introduced as helping save her dragons- that way they don't need Strong Belwas.

[David Selig]

Doreah betraying Dany would really come out of left field, there have been no hints of it at all in the previous episodes. I think it's more probable she was away on some other business, most likely seducing men for information as mentioned in the previous episodes.

I hope so at least, she has to remain with Dany for a long time, otherwise it would be a damn shame. They already killed Irri off, it would be too much if they get rid of both of them and leave only Jorah as the only developed character near Dany.

[Loose seal]

If you look closely at the end, you can very very briefly see a small part of the person's face and it looked pale, waxy and wrinkled... If only there was someone of that complexion who could want to lure Dany into something ... hmmm

[A Stark in Salem]

Sorry to disagree, but I personally hated this change from start to finish.

For one: who got past her bad-ass Dothraki guards? This city is supposed to be more nearly a wealthy dying corpse that the vibrant and fresh way they are showing it. In the books it's made  point that the soldiers are effeminate and seem more for show than anything else. Their primary defense is the endless desert on the one side and sea on the other. But this scene make her remaining soldiers seem ineffectual and further, her dragons no more dangerous than three cats in a cage.

How'd the thief manage to pull them out and put them in his back pack cage anyway? They only respond to Dany and would fight anyone who showed up to steal them, especially with a lot of violence and noise preceding it. Yes, they are vulnerable to being killed, but that's not the same at all to not being able to fry someone's face when they opened up their cages. Not to mention those nasty looking claws and teeth.

Overall I loved the episode right up to that scene, at which point I wanted to scream at the writers. I expect it will all end up at the same basic ending, but why not skip this little scene altogether and give some more time to another plot line. She certainly doesn't get equal time in the books, at least not this one. No reason to have to invent stuff to keep viewers connected IMO.

[SerMixalot]

The change from the book turns the Undying from victims/innocent bystanders to antagonists, which says something of dany's character development more than any long term impact on the story.

In the book, she is invited to the HotU (IIRC) goes through it and then is "rescued" by drogon as the visions get too intense (Again IIRC), in the meantime destroying the HotU.

In the series, clearly the Undying (assuming they are behind the abduction of the dragons) are bad guys

One of the interesting aspects of Dany is her regular stampeding of people in her way, her almost casual indifference to the destruction in her wake as evident by

the House of the Undying
Turning on the slavers immediately after taking all of the Unsullied, by using her dragon (which she sold to the slaver)-clearly did not trade honorably
Abandoning the Yunkai to the slaver army abdicating responsibility for the chaos she left behind her
abandoning the slaves outside of Mereene

[SerMixalot]

I couldnt understand the Christ reference by the guy carrying the dragons with his arms spread like he was carrying a cross up Cavalry Hill

[White Harbors Wrath]

SerMixalot, on 07 May 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

I couldnt understand the Christ reference by the guy carrying the dragons with his arms spread like he was carrying a cross up Cavalry Hill

Weight distribution of 3 crates? Same concept as those water bucket carrying stick things.

[madman2711]

I only saw two tails when the thief was with the dragon cages
Maybe im wrong but i bet that doreah took drogon with / without jorah
It makes sense after the last episode doreah was all over drogon and horah was warned by quaithe
But i dont think that any of the dragons will be harmed they are an essential part of danny story
I prefer not seeing them all season than killing them for budget reasons
D&D only gaved us some tails this episode so we can have more dragons later

[Lord Petyr Baelish]

Its a welcomed plot change.

I like some of the changes the show has made so far. They stay true to the books while adding in scenes that can keep the plot more intriguing.

This change will evoke more emotion from Dany's character(I love seeing her angry, so hot), and hopefully make the house of the undying more interesting then it was portrayed in the book.

[sarah.jenice]

Ferrum Aeternum, on 07 May 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

I am intrigued by the change but I want to see how it plays out before passing judgment one way or the other.  Depending on the creativity of the resolution, this could be a great storyline change or an awful one.  If the dragon rescue ends up just being all slap-dick action sequences I will be very disappointed.

One thing's for certain - it's given book readers a genuine shock and a mystery to watch unfold, which puts us in the same position as non-readers.  Kinda exciting!

My personal theory is that Xaro has something to do with it, and that Pyat Pree is being set up as a catspaw for the audience's (and perhaps Dany's) benefit.  XXD in the series comes off as a smooth operator but there's plenty more to him than meets the eye.  He even tells Dany that he didn't become the richest man in Qarth by following all the rules of polite society.

I am so glad to see someone else saying this because I thought it was Xaro, too. TV Xaro is too perfect, and they need to make some way for things to go sour between him and Dany. In the book, he wants her to forget about the Seven Kingdoms and sail away on a pleasure barg with him, forgetting about everything she is fighting for and entering a loveless marriage. In the show, he is offering her ships, his vast wealth and pretty much anything she would need to conquer the Seven Kingdoms. It would be odd if she didn't consider his proposal even though Jorah told her to make her own way, Xaro has given her a very sweet deal that show viewers wouldn't understand why she would pass it up (I know my fiance said, "She marries him, right?")

Also, Xaro takes her to the Spice King and has her waiting a very long - something he could have set up to keep her gone longer. The are in his home, and it seems strange that richest man in Qarth would have a place that could be broken into so easily. If Dany's people saw Xaro's people coming, they would have been caught off guard at first because they trust them. We know Xaro really wanted a dragon in the books, and he tells Dany he's done a lot of shady stuff to get to where he's at so I wouldn't put it past him to steal the dragons. The warlocks can do some magic tricks, but are they good warriors? Could they have killed so many of Dany's people that easily? I don't think so.

I could see Xaro blaming it on the warlocks, and Dany going to the House of the Undying and learning the truth. That is just what I lean toward, but I wouldn't be disappointed or surprised if the warlocks did steal the dragons. I think they would work in that storyline, too, and would like to see all three dragons help Dany escape.

This is definitely a change I didn't mind. I absolutely love the books, but it is exciting to not know where they are going with the story. It adds drama and fun because we book readers don't know everything that is going to happen. And as others have said, I think it adds some more interesting drama for Dany's story.

[PatrickStormborn]

SerMixalot, on 07 May 2012 - 11:40 AM, said:

In the book, she is invited to the HotU (IIRC) goes through it and then is "rescued" by drogon as the visions get too intense (Again IIRC), in the meantime destroying the HotU.

Nope. The warlocks try to kill her, so Drogon burns them.

[Ferrum Aeternum]

sarah.jenice, on 07 May 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

TV Xaro is too perfect, and they need to make some way for things to go sour between him and Dany. In the book, he wants her to forget about the Seven Kingdoms and sail away on a pleasure barg with him, forgetting about everything she is fighting for and entering a loveless marriage. In the show, he is offering her ships, his vast wealth and pretty much anything she would need to conquer the Seven Kingdoms. It would be odd if she didn't consider his proposal even though Jorah told her to make her own way, Xaro has given her a very sweet deal that show viewers wouldn't understand why she would pass it up (I know my fiance said, "She marries him, right?")

Exactly.  His offer is simply too good to be true, and he is too charming besides.  The seeds of this idea for me began when he vouched for her at the gates of Qarth in episode 4 - where perhaps the other members of the Thirteen saw Dany as a charlatan or an inconvenience, he saw an opportunity and a risk worth taking.  Why?  For the promise of power offered by the dragons.

Show-Xaro appears to have a bit of a chip on his shoulder.  He's now referenced his humble beginnings at least once in each episode, and it's implied from the Spice King's verbal barbs that XXD isn't exactly respected amongst his peers in the Thirteen.  Perhaps Xaro wants to change the order of things in Qarth and feels Dany's dragons are the key to doing so.  As you point out, there was no good reason for Dany to turn his marriage proposal down in the first place, but once she did, it's plain that a man in his position would not be above resorting to a more ruthless measure to achieve his goal.

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Also, Xaro takes her to the Spice King and has her waiting a very long - something he could have set up to keep her gone longer. The are in his home, and it seems strange that richest man in Qarth would have a place that could be broken into so easily. If Dany's people saw Xaro's people coming, they would have been caught off guard at first because they trust them. We know Xaro really wanted a dragon in the books, and he tells Dany he's done a lot of shady stuff to get to where he's at so I wouldn't put it past him to steal the dragons. The warlocks can do some magic tricks, but are they good warriors? Could they have killed so many of Dany's people that easily? I don't think so.

All excellent points that only serve to reinforce this theory.

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I could see Xaro blaming it on the warlocks, and Dany going to the House of the Undying and learning the truth.

Yep - the Warlocks are an easy scapegoat.  If Pree is any indication, they are weird, creepy and very interested in the dragons.  It's natural that folks would assume they would be behind the theft.  Just seems a bit too obvious to me and as you mentioned before, they aren't exactly known for their martial prowess.

[Blangadanger]

Dany's story has kept me on my toes this season, because clearly D&D are taking much more liberty with her story from the books than the other characters in the series. Part of me is frustrated that they choose to change things from the books, but I have to say, it's still very well done. I'm actually liking Dany's story a lot so far, certainly more so than I did from reading the ACoK. The Spice King and Xaro both have been very intriguing characters to watch, and I like that they've already focused on the tension between Jorah and Dany early.

I'm kind of hoping that all three of the guys mentioned (Pyat, Xaro, Spice/Grammar King) are involved with the abduction of the dragons. It will be interesting to see Dany struggling with the turmoil of losing her dragons in the House of Undying, and if they all are seen in her visions as enemies, it will make her inevitable angry blowup much more exciting.